Trying to Find a Balance Between Pre-Professionalism And The Liberal Arts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:30 years ago there was much less expectation and pressure to know what you wanted to do going in. People decided on majors later, internships after sophomore year were rare, everything was just pushed back a bit. There were always some kids who knew anyway but the expectation wasn’t there.

I agree with this, and my college kid is the rare bird who doesn’t seem to know what he wants to study or do. Spouse and I encouraged this open, uncommitted mindset before DS started college (spouse and I both were the same in college, and are also WAS grads who we made our ways into fulfilling careers), but it has stressed me out to see how focused DS’s peers are and now I regret telling him to explore so much because it feels like it will be that much harder for him to find internships and jobs when compared to his uberfocused peers.

I am now trying to get my high schoolers to think about this more! Although I also don’t get how so many kids enter college so certain they want to study neuroscience or quant economics or whatever since most of them aren’t exposed to these subjects in high school.

[Anonymous]

I have noticed that the preprofessional students are much more “into it” than back in my day. It is more cutthroat. Premed courses often have students sabotaging their classmates to help the curve. Happened in my DDs organic chemistry class.

[Anonymous]

I had a kid at Pepperdine and one at Tulane. They both went in not knowing what they wanted to do.
Spent 2 years taking a ton of different classes as they both had almost 30 credits of dual credits by the time they started, so this allowed them to explore both school’s liberal arts undergraduate programs. DD at Pepperdine decided to do BUsiness and DS at Tulane went pre-law with a BA in Social Sciences. DD worked for 3 years at PE firm in San Francisco and was just accepted to a t10 MBA program. Starting in the FAll. DS is at Cornell Law school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have noticed that the preprofessional students are much more “into it” than back in my day. It is more cutthroat. Premed courses often have students sabotaging their classmates to help the curve. Happened in my DDs organic chemistry class.

This goes back at least as far as Berkeley in the early 1980s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bucknell provides an ideal balance. Because of the robust liberal arts core, graduates end up as well-rounded, educated, intellectual people, but most also get high-paying jobs in IB or MC right out of college.

Lol just couldn’t help yourself.

True. Yet, they managed to not mention The Street.

Progress, not perfection 😜

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have noticed that the preprofessional students are much more “into it” than back in my day. It is more cutthroat. Premed courses often have students sabotaging their classmates to help the curve. Happened in my DDs organic chemistry class.

This is seriously doubtful.
I have two premeds at different ivy/T10 and no actual sabotage occurs there or any other place they have premed friends. Cheating has happened a lot at UVA recently but that is due to not having in person tests! Cheating in person on a real-time test is rare and easy to catch, and none of those students will make it to MD. Those who make it do not have to resort to cheating.

My spouse went to hopkins premed in the 90s and I went to an ivy and none then either(though the curves were harsher--median B-/C+ not B+ like nowadays). How would a kid "sabotage" another kid? Mine have long and short answer exam questions that are graded with various forms of partial credit, they are hand-written tests that take place in person. The tests are slightly easier if one chooses to go to recitation/office hours but that is true of most classes and was true 30 years ago. Showing up and doing the maximum helps your grade. Reviewing in groups is helpful for some students, others get overwhelmed and prefer to study alone. Refusing to share notes with someone who has not attended class is not sabotage. Refusing to be in a study group that does not work for someone is not sabotage. There is no way to "sabotage" anyone else in orgo with these types of midterm/exams and grading structure of all the schools I know

[Anonymous]

I was at Hopkins late 80s. Sabotage there was kids using a sharpie to black out the important info in the required reading that was put on reserve. Happened regularly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The balance is called a university.

+100
You can find it in any good universities, and make it toward either more pre-professional or more liberal arts based on your goal or preference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:30 years ago there was much less expectation and pressure to know what you wanted to do going in. People decided on majors later, internships after sophomore year were rare, everything was just pushed back a bit. There were always some kids who knew anyway but the expectation wasn’t there.

I agree with this, and my college kid is the rare bird who doesn’t seem to know what he wants to study or do. Spouse and I encouraged this open, uncommitted mindset before DS started college (spouse and I both were the same in college, and are also WAS grads who we made our ways into fulfilling careers), but it has stressed me out to see how focused DS’s peers are and now I regret telling him to explore so much because it feels like it will be that much harder for him to find internships and jobs when compared to his uberfocused peers.

I am now trying to get my high schoolers to think about this more! Although I also don’t get how so many kids enter college so certain they want to study neuroscience or quant economics or whatever since most of them aren’t exposed to these subjects in high school.

+1 not only that but look at how much the workplace has changed in the last 30 years with the internet, paperless offices, email, Zoom, and now AI. My kid is a rising college sophomore and I was also taken aback at how laser-focused their peers are on a preprofessional track. I’m encouraging my kid to take a variety of courses while keeping a few post-graduate options in mind. Hopefully they’ll figure out a good balance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was at Hopkins late 80s. Sabotage there was kids using a sharpie to black out the important info in the required reading that was put on reserve. Happened regularly.

It's fascinating that colleges that supposedly admit the highest quality students would have so many people engaged in unethical activities.

[Anonymous]

As a HACK grad, most of the top lacs tend to be like this. It's really about being in the right community/group of friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a HACK grad, most of the top lacs tend to be like this. It's really about being in the right community/group of friends.

What is this HACK I keep seeing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a HACK grad, most of the top lacs tend to be like this. It's really about being in the right community/group of friends.

What is this HACK I keep seeing?

It's a made up acronym that popped up on the DCUM forum yesterday- Haverford, Amherst, Colby and Kenyon. Someone has decided they want to make "HACK" a thing, so they keep posting it in all the threads. It's not WASP, people. Sorry, Kenyon is a great little liberal arts school, but it's not really in the same league as Swat, let's be honest.

[Anonymous]

The ironic thing about this push to have summer internships earlier is that a lot of college students are still having trouble finding jobs when they graduate.

[Anonymous]

This all goes back to the increasing number of kids who are "business" majors.

My kid is an economics major only because he has not clue about what he wants to do. At his school Economics is in college of liberal arts. He looks at his major as "sort of business".