Why does ECNL allow cheap overly aggressive play

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Certain types of plays are organic to specific leagues?

Rephrase- certain types of plays or exclusive to specific leagues?

And yes. It is rhetorical

[Anonymous]

Complete troll post from OP. Don’t feed the trolls trying to drag you into an ECNL vs GAL rant fest.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think it’s a troll post necessarily, but it has little to do with the league. It’s just garbage US Soccer. There aren’t enough quality coaches and clubs. Even for those who do try to teach and play with a developmental focus, the amount of player movement and the incentives for coaches and most clubs don’t align with player development. It’s all just a “get the 3 points this weekend” mindset.

[Anonymous]

Clearly a troll post. When you start with such a broad negative generalization, from 1 person’s very limited and subjective observations, and apply that to 2 different national leagues, it’s pretty obvious a troll with an agenda. Here it’s ECNL = very bad villain and GAL = good victim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Clearly a troll post. When you start with such a broad negative generalization, from 1 person’s very limited and subjective observations, and apply that to 2 different national leagues, it’s pretty obvious a troll with an agenda. Here it’s ECNL = very bad villain and GAL = good victim.

I think you missed what was being said. It was more about the safety of players (which is often ignored) than anything else.

Maybe its time to drop your blind hate for GA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s a troll post necessarily, but it has little to do with the league. It’s just garbage US Soccer. There aren’t enough quality coaches and clubs. Even for those who do try to teach and play with a developmental focus, the amount of player movement and the incentives for coaches and most clubs don’t align with player development. It’s all just a “get the 3 points this weekend” mindset.

Yeah, I'm also not convinced it's a total troll post. By me, the ECNL clubs do play more physical than the GA clubs. There are a few great teams at the GA clubs, but overall the ECNL clubs beat them at most age groups with the more physical play. I don't know if it's totally true, but I get the sense that the ECNL clubs are under more pressure to always be at the top of the rankings. The great GA teams seem to win way more league games by 5+ goals, so they just don't seem to be feeling the same pressure on their heels. The ECNL teams seem very reluctant to take a technical player who doesn't also have size and/or speed, and people talk like that player would get eaten alive in ECNL, which kind of seems true watching them play. Some ECNL clubs might want to play less physical, but they're probably worried they will drop too far and get kicked out if they made that move alone. The competition may just plain be more fierce in ECNL, leading to the physical play. To curtail it, you'd have to raise penalties for foul/card accumulations, rather than telling refs to change the rules of the game by calling touchy fouls. Again, just the general sense I get talking to other parents who are in the different leagues.

[Anonymous]

My DD has been in ECNL 3 years and I have never seen the type of play the poster is suggesting. So he/she either had an agenda or is just wrong. In fact, some of the most physical play I have seen has come out of GA teams in NJ or NY. Now, I want to be clear that I am not calling those teams cheap, just physical. So, if you think your child has seen physical play, get ready to have him/her really get pushed around when they get older and play some of the GA teams outside the area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD has been in ECNL 3 years and I have never seen the type of play the poster is suggesting. So he/she either had an agenda or is just wrong. In fact, some of the most physical play I have seen has come out of GA teams in NJ or NY. Now, I want to be clear that I am not calling those teams cheap, just physical. So, if you think your child has seen physical play, get ready to have him/her really get pushed around when they get older and play some of the GA teams outside the area.

You understand that GA stands for Girls Academy. There are no him players in the league. There might be a few hims that are pretending to be hers but there are no hims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How could ECNL stop "allowing" it? Are you saying ECNL refs aren't calling fouls the same way that GA refs do?

I don't think ECNL, as a league, is doing anything to encourage rough play. In my observation, the clubs in ECNL just play more physical, and so others respond, and it's a natural cycle toward aggressive play. Fouls are called normally, cards are given, but they continue if it's their best chance to win. The root cause is just that these players are hyper-competitive, willing to risk their bodies to win. When these teams play outside ECNL, teams from other leagues are shocked. But honestly, it works.

Watching pro soccer, I think you're wrong that the play isn't this physical. It's just that you usually only see the very physical play when stakes are high. A lot of ECNL girls are playing every game like it's the World Cup. That does seem silly for a pro, thinking of injuries, but I think a lot of coaches are riding the players to play that hard all the time. You'd have to convince the players that their spot in the lineup isn't at risk, and their chance at playing in college isn't at risk with every game.

Given similar incentives in GA, how do you think they are preventing teams getting into a feedback loop of rough play?

In this situation everyone expected the "hard play" so it wasn't anything our team wasn't ready for. Being aggressive and playing the body instead of the ball is what caused the top team to lose. The problem with this is theres more goons than there is talented players. So while a more talented team can beat a bunch of goons in a one off game. If the entire league is goons teams that try to play with skill wont be successful long term because skill takes longer to develop and everyone will get hurt.

It’s also a lot harder to develop skill when the refs let the rough stuff go. If the leagues pushed the refs to call tighter games, coaches would coach differently and select different players.

This. It’s not the league, it is the refs. I’m absolutely shocked at what refs around here allow. I grew up in Germany, and 90% of the plays that draw a yellow here would draw a straight red there. Same thing for regular fouls here, would be yellow cards there.

It’s like watching SEC vs ACC basketball.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How could ECNL stop "allowing" it? Are you saying ECNL refs aren't calling fouls the same way that GA refs do?

I don't think ECNL, as a league, is doing anything to encourage rough play. In my observation, the clubs in ECNL just play more physical, and so others respond, and it's a natural cycle toward aggressive play. Fouls are called normally, cards are given, but they continue if it's their best chance to win. The root cause is just that these players are hyper-competitive, willing to risk their bodies to win. When these teams play outside ECNL, teams from other leagues are shocked. But honestly, it works.

Watching pro soccer, I think you're wrong that the play isn't this physical. It's just that you usually only see the very physical play when stakes are high. A lot of ECNL girls are playing every game like it's the World Cup. That does seem silly for a pro, thinking of injuries, but I think a lot of coaches are riding the players to play that hard all the time. You'd have to convince the players that their spot in the lineup isn't at risk, and their chance at playing in college isn't at risk with every game.

Given similar incentives in GA, how do you think they are preventing teams getting into a feedback loop of rough play?

In this situation everyone expected the "hard play" so it wasn't anything our team wasn't ready for. Being aggressive and playing the body instead of the ball is what caused the top team to lose. The problem with this is theres more goons than there is talented players. So while a more talented team can beat a bunch of goons in a one off game. If the entire league is goons teams that try to play with skill wont be successful long term because skill takes longer to develop and everyone will get hurt.

It’s also a lot harder to develop skill when the refs let the rough stuff go. If the leagues pushed the refs to call tighter games, coaches would coach differently and select different players.

This. It’s not the league, it is the refs. I’m absolutely shocked at what refs around here allow. I grew up in Germany, and 90% of the plays that draw a yellow here would draw a straight red there. Same thing for regular fouls here, would be yellow cards there.

It’s like watching SEC vs ACC basketball.

This is because the players all have a pricetag on their head in the Academy system. Neither the players or clubs want to risk playing against a bunch of goons that are just looking to injure the other team. If forced into this situation they'll just bring out their own lineup of thugs and everyone can punch it out. Thugs are cheap and easy to develop.

Colleges like this type of player because theyre disposable and because colleges dont care about development or high level play which is why all the bootball happens

[Anonymous]

I don’t care about ECNL v GA, I have seen horribly physical play in both. Girls are fully taught to body check before getting the ball, and to throw elbows while doing it. I have literally seen a coach demonstrating this with a girl on his team. I think it’s awful. And it’s the reason size is getting bigger and bigger in girls soccer. Get back to a tactical game, and a lot of injuries would be avoided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD has been in ECNL 3 years and I have never seen the type of play the poster is suggesting. So he/she either had an agenda or is just wrong. In fact, some of the most physical play I have seen has come out of GA teams in NJ or NY. Now, I want to be clear that I am not calling those teams cheap, just physical. So, if you think your child has seen physical play, get ready to have him/her really get pushed around when they get older and play some of the GA teams outside the area.

ECNL where? You reference NJ, which might suggest North Atlantic. If so, you're not being honest because extremely physical play is absolutely commonplace there.

[Anonymous]

I can absolutely confirm ECNL teams headhunt super talented kids to hurt them and nock them out of games.

Big kids playing boot ball should be the motto.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids GA team was playing in an ECNL clubs tournament (beat a very good ECNL team and lost by a goal to an ok ECNL team). It was clearly obvious that ECNL players relied on cheap shots and fighting type tactics over skill. Why do parents put up with this type of behavior? Putting your kid through a gladiator cage when they're young wont make them better. It will make them get hurt earlier in their career which very likely will affect their chances to play in college or professionally.

One teams center defender was so dirty all she was doing was trying to hurt other players. One time after getting burned she dove head first into one of our players knees trying to take her out. I'd never seen such a blatant red card get completely ignored before. Later she did something similar which hurt one our players and she received a yellow. This kind of play needs to be addressed. You dont see it in the pros why is it allowed in youth soccer? If its allowed other clubs will find their own enforcer and over time it becomes 80s hockey with kids.

It just seems stupid to me to let kids get hurt by allowing play that the pros dont even allow.

If you want anecdote against anecdote - my U12 (smaller team in general) pre-ECNL played a U13 GA team and they were doing nothing other than throwing their size around. The amount of fouls called was at least a 5/1 ratio. I think you just ran into a dirty team and a bad ref. Also why the hell are "decent" GA teams playing in 4th flights against teams a year younger!?!

100% this is Revolution. The team is completely devoid of any skill. This is how they play and it gets worse when a team is better than than them football skill wise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How could ECNL stop "allowing" it? Are you saying ECNL refs aren't calling fouls the same way that GA refs do?

I don't think ECNL, as a league, is doing anything to encourage rough play. In my observation, the clubs in ECNL just play more physical, and so others respond, and it's a natural cycle toward aggressive play. Fouls are called normally, cards are given, but they continue if it's their best chance to win. The root cause is just that these players are hyper-competitive, willing to risk their bodies to win. When these teams play outside ECNL, teams from other leagues are shocked. But honestly, it works.

Watching pro soccer, I think you're wrong that the play isn't this physical. It's just that you usually only see the very physical play when stakes are high. A lot of ECNL girls are playing every game like it's the World Cup. That does seem silly for a pro, thinking of injuries, but I think a lot of coaches are riding the players to play that hard all the time. You'd have to convince the players that their spot in the lineup isn't at risk, and their chance at playing in college isn't at risk with every game.

Given similar incentives in GA, how do you think they are preventing teams getting into a feedback loop of rough play?

In this situation everyone expected the "hard play" so it wasn't anything our team wasn't ready for. Being aggressive and playing the body instead of the ball is what caused the top team to lose. The problem with this is theres more goons than there is talented players. So while a more talented team can beat a bunch of goons in a one off game. If the entire league is goons teams that try to play with skill wont be successful long term because skill takes longer to develop and everyone will get hurt.

It’s also a lot harder to develop skill when the refs let the rough stuff go. If the leagues pushed the refs to call tighter games, coaches would coach differently and select different players.

This. It’s not the league, it is the refs. I’m absolutely shocked at what refs around here allow. I grew up in Germany, and 90% of the plays that draw a yellow here would draw a straight red there. Same thing for regular fouls here, would be yellow cards there.

It’s like watching SEC vs ACC basketball.

This is true. If the referee called the game properly, some teams would have multiple players booked every game, with some receiving straight reds for violent conduct.