NCAP Burke Price Increases!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Swimming is expensive.
2. What is cost prohibitive to you is not cost prohibitive to plenty of people.
3. They will be able to fill all practices with people that can afford this and future price increases.

Continued increases will affect more and more folks and swimming won’t be an attainable sport for many families…Just being a sport of the rich who can afford it is a recipe for disaster.

In our case, I’m sure it would be a hit for NCAP if we left…

NCAP is a business. NCAP is out to make money. And there’s enough money that they can change what they want, even if it’s bad for swimming. What is bad for swimming is not NCAP’s issue- that’s a USA swimming issue.

And no matter how important you think your kid is, no one swimmer is really important. NCAP lost one of its top young swimmers (would have won events at NCI) this year to Makos, but two PVS swimmers of the year transferred to NCAP.

In the end, it doesn’t matter. They’re still going to fill all their lanes.

I’m not saying my individual kid is all that important. He is valued on the team and would be welcome most anywhere. What you’re saying is it’s fine when they’ve priced out many of their top swimmers and their tier one groups are eventually filled with slower swimmers whose parents can pay the bills??? Being in Gold 1 doesn’t mean the same thing as it used to because they’re just filling up the lanes with whomever is willing to pay the bills?? That brings down the reputation of the team. They want to be able to broadcast that they have the best talent to encourage others to join. If that talent leaves and folks compare times they begin to see that the team maybe isn’t as strong as they think. I’m not saying that is currently happening. Just saying that could be the reality if prices keep raising like this annually. An 18% increase annually isn’t sustainable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Swimming is expensive.
2. What is cost prohibitive to you is not cost prohibitive to plenty of people.
3. They will be able to fill all practices with people that can afford this and future price increases.

Continued increases will affect more and more folks and swimming won’t be an attainable sport for many families…Just being a sport of the rich who can afford it is a recipe for disaster.

In our case, I’m sure it would be a hit for NCAP if we left…

NCAP is a business. NCAP is out to make money. And there’s enough money that they can change what they want, even if it’s bad for swimming. What is bad for swimming is not NCAP’s issue- that’s a USA swimming issue.

And no matter how important you think your kid is, no one swimmer is really important. NCAP lost one of its top young swimmers (would have won events at NCI) this year to Makos, but two PVS swimmers of the year transferred to NCAP.

In the end, it doesn’t matter. They’re still going to fill all their lanes.

I’m not saying my individual kid is all that important. He is valued on the team and would be welcome most anywhere. What you’re saying is it’s fine when they’ve priced out many of their top swimmers and their tier one groups are eventually filled with slower swimmers whose parents can pay the bills??? Being in Gold 1 doesn’t mean the same thing as it used to because they’re just filling up the lanes with whomever is willing to pay the bills?? That brings down the reputation of the team. They want to be able to broadcast that they have the best talent to encourage others to join. If that talent leaves and folks compare times they begin to see that the team maybe isn’t as strong as they think. I’m not saying that is currently happening. Just saying that could be the reality if prices keep raising like this annually. An 18% increase annually isn’t sustainable.

It wasn’t really an 18% increase though. There is a price increase associated with group advancement at your swimmer’s level at all the NCAP sites because there is more practice time and usually dryland with a trainer. So I wouldn’t count that as an unexpected increase, that is an increase that has always been there for that group and always will be there. What you really need to look at is how much did that group cost this season vs. how much it is going to cost next season. I suspect my swimmer is moving to the same level group at a different site and the increase for that group from this season to next is only $75, which is a 1.5% increase.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Swimming is expensive.
2. What is cost prohibitive to you is not cost prohibitive to plenty of people.
3. They will be able to fill all practices with people that can afford this and future price increases.

Continued increases will affect more and more folks and swimming won’t be an attainable sport for many families…Just being a sport of the rich who can afford it is a recipe for disaster.

In our case, I’m sure it would be a hit for NCAP if we left…

NCAP is a business. NCAP is out to make money. And there’s enough money that they can change what they want, even if it’s bad for swimming. What is bad for swimming is not NCAP’s issue- that’s a USA swimming issue.

And no matter how important you think your kid is, no one swimmer is really important. NCAP lost one of its top young swimmers (would have won events at NCI) this year to Makos, but two PVS swimmers of the year transferred to NCAP.

In the end, it doesn’t matter. They’re still going to fill all their lanes.

I’m not saying my individual kid is all that important. He is valued on the team and would be welcome most anywhere. What you’re saying is it’s fine when they’ve priced out many of their top swimmers and their tier one groups are eventually filled with slower swimmers whose parents can pay the bills??? Being in Gold 1 doesn’t mean the same thing as it used to because they’re just filling up the lanes with whomever is willing to pay the bills?? That brings down the reputation of the team. They want to be able to broadcast that they have the best talent to encourage others to join. If that talent leaves and folks compare times they begin to see that the team maybe isn’t as strong as they think. I’m not saying that is currently happening. Just saying that could be the reality if prices keep raising like this annually. An 18% increase annually isn’t sustainable.

It wasn’t really an 18% increase though. There is a price increase associated with group advancement at your swimmer’s level at all the NCAP sites because there is more practice time and usually dryland with a trainer. So I wouldn’t count that as an unexpected increase, that is an increase that has always been there for that group and always will be there. What you really need to look at is how much did that group cost this season vs. how much it is going to cost next season. I suspect my swimmer is moving to the same level group at a different site and the increase for that group from this season to next is only $75, which is a 1.5% increase.

Staying in the same group would mean a little over 8% increase from this season’s rates to the 2024-25 rates but the reality is that kids move up about every two years so yeah it’s all part of the calculation. Obviously more practices = more lane time and coaching time so you expect an increase but the reality is that it’s A LOT and quickly becoming cost prohibiting.

[Anonymous]

OP, that price is higher than the NCAP sites my swimmers are at - even Gold 1 rates are not that high. Is Burke higher than the rest of the NCAP sites?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Swimming is expensive.
2. What is cost prohibitive to you is not cost prohibitive to plenty of people.
3. They will be able to fill all practices with people that can afford this and future price increases.

Continued increases will affect more and more folks and swimming won’t be an attainable sport for many families…Just being a sport of the rich who can afford it is a recipe for disaster.

In our case, I’m sure it would be a hit for NCAP if we left…

NCAP is a business. NCAP is out to make money. And there’s enough money that they can change what they want, even if it’s bad for swimming. What is bad for swimming is not NCAP’s issue- that’s a USA swimming issue.

And no matter how important you think your kid is, no one swimmer is really important. NCAP lost one of its top young swimmers (would have won events at NCI) this year to Makos, but two PVS swimmers of the year transferred to NCAP.

In the end, it doesn’t matter. They’re still going to fill all their lanes.

I’m not saying my individual kid is all that important. He is valued on the team and would be welcome most anywhere. What you’re saying is it’s fine when they’ve priced out many of their top swimmers and their tier one groups are eventually filled with slower swimmers whose parents can pay the bills??? Being in Gold 1 doesn’t mean the same thing as it used to because they’re just filling up the lanes with whomever is willing to pay the bills?? That brings down the reputation of the team. They want to be able to broadcast that they have the best talent to encourage others to join. If that talent leaves and folks compare times they begin to see that the team maybe isn’t as strong as they think. I’m not saying that is currently happening. Just saying that could be the reality if prices keep raising like this annually. An 18% increase annually isn’t sustainable.

It wasn’t really an 18% increase though. There is a price increase associated with group advancement at your swimmer’s level at all the NCAP sites because there is more practice time and usually dryland with a trainer. So I wouldn’t count that as an unexpected increase, that is an increase that has always been there for that group and always will be there. What you really need to look at is how much did that group cost this season vs. how much it is going to cost next season. I suspect my swimmer is moving to the same level group at a different site and the increase for that group from this season to next is only $75, which is a 1.5% increase.

Staying in the same group would mean a little over 8% increase from this season’s rates to the 2024-25 rates but the reality is that kids move up about every two years so yeah it’s all part of the calculation. Obviously more practices = more lane time and coaching time so you expect an increase but the reality is that it’s A LOT and quickly becoming cost prohibiting.

You’re saying that if your swimmer stayed in the same group they were in this year, I’m assuming Bronze 1, that next year’s fees for Bronze 1 are going up 8% or $318? That does seem like a lot year over year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Swimming is expensive.
2. What is cost prohibitive to you is not cost prohibitive to plenty of people.
3. They will be able to fill all practices with people that can afford this and future price increases.

Continued increases will affect more and more folks and swimming won’t be an attainable sport for many families…Just being a sport of the rich who can afford it is a recipe for disaster.

In our case, I’m sure it would be a hit for NCAP if we left…

NCAP is a business. NCAP is out to make money. And there’s enough money that they can change what they want, even if it’s bad for swimming. What is bad for swimming is not NCAP’s issue- that’s a USA swimming issue.

And no matter how important you think your kid is, no one swimmer is really important. NCAP lost one of its top young swimmers (would have won events at NCI) this year to Makos, but two PVS swimmers of the year transferred to NCAP.

In the end, it doesn’t matter. They’re still going to fill all their lanes.

I’m not saying my individual kid is all that important. He is valued on the team and would be welcome most anywhere. What you’re saying is it’s fine when they’ve priced out many of their top swimmers and their tier one groups are eventually filled with slower swimmers whose parents can pay the bills??? Being in Gold 1 doesn’t mean the same thing as it used to because they’re just filling up the lanes with whomever is willing to pay the bills?? That brings down the reputation of the team. They want to be able to broadcast that they have the best talent to encourage others to join. If that talent leaves and folks compare times they begin to see that the team maybe isn’t as strong as they think. I’m not saying that is currently happening. Just saying that could be the reality if prices keep raising like this annually. An 18% increase annually isn’t sustainable.

It wasn’t really an 18% increase though. There is a price increase associated with group advancement at your swimmer’s level at all the NCAP sites because there is more practice time and usually dryland with a trainer. So I wouldn’t count that as an unexpected increase, that is an increase that has always been there for that group and always will be there. What you really need to look at is how much did that group cost this season vs. how much it is going to cost next season. I suspect my swimmer is moving to the same level group at a different site and the increase for that group from this season to next is only $75, which is a 1.5% increase.

Staying in the same group would mean a little over 8% increase from this season’s rates to the 2024-25 rates but the reality is that kids move up about every two years so yeah it’s all part of the calculation. Obviously more practices = more lane time and coaching time so you expect an increase but the reality is that it’s A LOT and quickly becoming cost prohibiting.

You’re saying that if your swimmer stayed in the same group they were in this year, I’m assuming Bronze 1, that next year’s fees for Bronze 1 are going up 8% or $318? That does seem like a lot year over year.

Bronze I is going from $430 -> $465 a month which is an 8% increase. $420 increase for the year. Not sure where the 1.5% figure came from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Swimming is expensive.
2. What is cost prohibitive to you is not cost prohibitive to plenty of people.
3. They will be able to fill all practices with people that can afford this and future price increases.

Continued increases will affect more and more folks and swimming won’t be an attainable sport for many families…Just being a sport of the rich who can afford it is a recipe for disaster.

In our case, I’m sure it would be a hit for NCAP if we left…

NCAP is a business. NCAP is out to make money. And there’s enough money that they can change what they want, even if it’s bad for swimming. What is bad for swimming is not NCAP’s issue- that’s a USA swimming issue.

And no matter how important you think your kid is, no one swimmer is really important. NCAP lost one of its top young swimmers (would have won events at NCI) this year to Makos, but two PVS swimmers of the year transferred to NCAP.

In the end, it doesn’t matter. They’re still going to fill all their lanes.

I’m not saying my individual kid is all that important. He is valued on the team and would be welcome most anywhere. What you’re saying is it’s fine when they’ve priced out many of their top swimmers and their tier one groups are eventually filled with slower swimmers whose parents can pay the bills??? Being in Gold 1 doesn’t mean the same thing as it used to because they’re just filling up the lanes with whomever is willing to pay the bills?? That brings down the reputation of the team. They want to be able to broadcast that they have the best talent to encourage others to join. If that talent leaves and folks compare times they begin to see that the team maybe isn’t as strong as they think. I’m not saying that is currently happening. Just saying that could be the reality if prices keep raising like this annually. An 18% increase annually isn’t sustainable.

It wasn’t really an 18% increase though. There is a price increase associated with group advancement at your swimmer’s level at all the NCAP sites because there is more practice time and usually dryland with a trainer. So I wouldn’t count that as an unexpected increase, that is an increase that has always been there for that group and always will be there. What you really need to look at is how much did that group cost this season vs. how much it is going to cost next season. I suspect my swimmer is moving to the same level group at a different site and the increase for that group from this season to next is only $75, which is a 1.5% increase.

Staying in the same group would mean a little over 8% increase from this season’s rates to the 2024-25 rates but the reality is that kids move up about every two years so yeah it’s all part of the calculation. Obviously more practices = more lane time and coaching time so you expect an increase but the reality is that it’s A LOT and quickly becoming cost prohibiting.

You’re saying that if your swimmer stayed in the same group they were in this year, I’m assuming Bronze 1, that next year’s fees for Bronze 1 are going up 8% or $318? That does seem like a lot year over year.

Bronze I is going from $430 -> $465 a month which is an 8% increase. $420 increase for the year. Not sure where the 1.5% figure came from.

The 1.5% increase was from this season to next season at our site’s Silver group. Our Bronze 1 group’s fees are also only increasing $50 total from this season to next season, which is only a roughly 1% increase. Burke’s increase seems significant enough that they owe the parents an explanation for why it is going up so much. You expect an increase moving up a practice group and even a small 1-2% increase from year to year in the same group, but 8% more for the same group from this year to next year is a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Swimming is expensive.
2. What is cost prohibitive to you is not cost prohibitive to plenty of people.
3. They will be able to fill all practices with people that can afford this and future price increases.

Continued increases will affect more and more folks and swimming won’t be an attainable sport for many families…Just being a sport of the rich who can afford it is a recipe for disaster.

In our case, I’m sure it would be a hit for NCAP if we left…

NCAP is a business. NCAP is out to make money. And there’s enough money that they can change what they want, even if it’s bad for swimming. What is bad for swimming is not NCAP’s issue- that’s a USA swimming issue.

And no matter how important you think your kid is, no one swimmer is really important. NCAP lost one of its top young swimmers (would have won events at NCI) this year to Makos, but two PVS swimmers of the year transferred to NCAP.

In the end, it doesn’t matter. They’re still going to fill all their lanes.

I’m not saying my individual kid is all that important. He is valued on the team and would be welcome most anywhere. What you’re saying is it’s fine when they’ve priced out many of their top swimmers and their tier one groups are eventually filled with slower swimmers whose parents can pay the bills??? Being in Gold 1 doesn’t mean the same thing as it used to because they’re just filling up the lanes with whomever is willing to pay the bills?? That brings down the reputation of the team. They want to be able to broadcast that they have the best talent to encourage others to join. If that talent leaves and folks compare times they begin to see that the team maybe isn’t as strong as they think. I’m not saying that is currently happening. Just saying that could be the reality if prices keep raising like this annually. An 18% increase annually isn’t sustainable.

It wasn’t really an 18% increase though. There is a price increase associated with group advancement at your swimmer’s level at all the NCAP sites because there is more practice time and usually dryland with a trainer. So I wouldn’t count that as an unexpected increase, that is an increase that has always been there for that group and always will be there. What you really need to look at is how much did that group cost this season vs. how much it is going to cost next season. I suspect my swimmer is moving to the same level group at a different site and the increase for that group from this season to next is only $75, which is a 1.5% increase.

Staying in the same group would mean a little over 8% increase from this season’s rates to the 2024-25 rates but the reality is that kids move up about every two years so yeah it’s all part of the calculation. Obviously more practices = more lane time and coaching time so you expect an increase but the reality is that it’s A LOT and quickly becoming cost prohibiting.

You’re saying that if your swimmer stayed in the same group they were in this year, I’m assuming Bronze 1, that next year’s fees for Bronze 1 are going up 8% or $318? That does seem like a lot year over year.

Bronze I will be $465/month next year

[Anonymous]

OP. You are quickly going down a rabbit hole. There will not be 18% price increases every year. NCAP won’t raise their prices to be ridiculously out of line with other teams. And as long as they are in the ballpark, they will fill their lanes. You’re concerned about losing all the good swimmers and a loss of prestige, yet other clubs with few to no elite swimmers, those I’m sure you would consider not prestigious, still fill their lanes without issue. And they are businesses. That’s what they care about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Swimming is expensive.
2. What is cost prohibitive to you is not cost prohibitive to plenty of people.
3. They will be able to fill all practices with people that can afford this and future price increases.

Continued increases will affect more and more folks and swimming won’t be an attainable sport for many families…Just being a sport of the rich who can afford it is a recipe for disaster.

In our case, I’m sure it would be a hit for NCAP if we left…

NCAP is a business. NCAP is out to make money. And there’s enough money that they can change what they want, even if it’s bad for swimming. What is bad for swimming is not NCAP’s issue- that’s a USA swimming issue.

And no matter how important you think your kid is, no one swimmer is really important. NCAP lost one of its top young swimmers (would have won events at NCI) this year to Makos, but two PVS swimmers of the year transferred to NCAP.

In the end, it doesn’t matter. They’re still going to fill all their lanes.

I’m not saying my individual kid is all that important. He is valued on the team and would be welcome most anywhere. What you’re saying is it’s fine when they’ve priced out many of their top swimmers and their tier one groups are eventually filled with slower swimmers whose parents can pay the bills??? Being in Gold 1 doesn’t mean the same thing as it used to because they’re just filling up the lanes with whomever is willing to pay the bills?? That brings down the reputation of the team. They want to be able to broadcast that they have the best talent to encourage others to join. If that talent leaves and folks compare times they begin to see that the team maybe isn’t as strong as they think. I’m not saying that is currently happening. Just saying that could be the reality if prices keep raising like this annually. An 18% increase annually isn’t sustainable.

It wasn’t really an 18% increase though. There is a price increase associated with group advancement at your swimmer’s level at all the NCAP sites because there is more practice time and usually dryland with a trainer. So I wouldn’t count that as an unexpected increase, that is an increase that has always been there for that group and always will be there. What you really need to look at is how much did that group cost this season vs. how much it is going to cost next season. I suspect my swimmer is moving to the same level group at a different site and the increase for that group from this season to next is only $75, which is a 1.5% increase.

Staying in the same group would mean a little over 8% increase from this season’s rates to the 2024-25 rates but the reality is that kids move up about every two years so yeah it’s all part of the calculation. Obviously more practices = more lane time and coaching time so you expect an increase but the reality is that it’s A LOT and quickly becoming cost prohibiting.

You’re saying that if your swimmer stayed in the same group they were in this year, I’m assuming Bronze 1, that next year’s fees for Bronze 1 are going up 8% or $318? That does seem like a lot year over year.

Bronze I will be $465/month next year

I’m the PP from another site, and the $465 a month brings Burke directly in line with what our B1’s monthly cost is, so maybe they are trying to get in line with what other sites are charging for similar groups.

[Anonymous]

Remember that NCAP-Burke has a different business relationship with NCAP. It’s essentially a franchise (unless the nature of that contractual is changing), much like North and Alexandria. It also is the only team that rents space from a private rec center.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Remember that NCAP-Burke has a different business relationship with NCAP. It’s essentially a franchise (unless the nature of that contractual is changing), much like North and Alexandria. It also is the only team that rents space from a private rec center.

* rephrased: the private rec center only rents pool time/space to NCAP-Burke and no other club team has access to that pool

[Anonymous]

Potomac Marlins did not raise their fees this year and they start their coaches at $10 more than NCAP does.

NCAP always been money hungry

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Potomac Marlins did not raise their fees this year and they start their coaches at $10 more than NCAP does.

NCAP always been money hungry

Potomac Marlins does not have coaches on salary with benefits (health insurance, 401k, etc) most of NCAP and Machine coaches are full time professional coaches with benefits.

The NCAP Burke site is a franchise. Pete Morgan sets those prices. Not Tom Ugast.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Potomac Marlins did not raise their fees this year and they start their coaches at $10 more than NCAP does.

NCAP always been money hungry

Potomac Marlins does not have coaches on salary with benefits (health insurance, 401k, etc) most of NCAP and Machine coaches are full time professional coaches with benefits.

The NCAP Burke site is a franchise. Pete Morgan sets those prices. Not Tom Ugast.

They have coaches on salary, no benefits, that being said they still start their hourly coaches at a higher rate.