NCAP Burke Price Increases!!

[Anonymous]

Sitting here debating whether to look into changing teams. We haven’t lived here long and understand swim is just expensive in the DMV but our DS’s monthly fees have increased from $385->$430 and are now going to be $510/mo for next season. On top of that there is an increase in the annual registration fee but as far as I can tell USA Swimming hasn’t increased their fee, maybe PVS has?? He is moving up a group due to age so the $510 includes one add’l practice each week but $6500 a year BEFORE Splash Fees is crazy steep. It’s about $1000 more for next season than this current season 🫣

We all want coaches to be well paid and I know lane space is expensive but at some point things become cost prohibitive, especially with all of the economic uncertainty and folks losing jobs left and right. We aren’t a ‘typical’ DCUM family with dual incomes, just a single fed paycheck.

He’s happy with his current team (coaches and peers) and it is the closest to our house and we have a great carpool from our neighborhood which I’d hate to lose so I’m very hesitant to look into switching but these prices feel like a gut punch.

Are all area teams increasing prices? Are other NCAP sites increasing prices?

Makos for the same level practice group looks to be under $4500/year.

Anyone know a good website to sell some feet pics?!!

[Anonymous]

1. Swimming is expensive.
2. What is cost prohibitive to you is not cost prohibitive to plenty of people.
3. They will be able to fill all practices with people that can afford this and future price increases.

[Anonymous]

We drive almost half an hour to AAC because it’s less than half the cost of NCAP and it’s a solid team with good coaches. You could try to recruit some of your carpool buddies to switch with you.

[Anonymous]

What age and how many practices a week?

Machine's top group- national team is "only" around $6100 (varies by site). This excludes meet fees.

[Anonymous]

We are with a VA NCAP site and my swimmer is also moving up a group next year. We are going to be paying about $110 more per month next season than we did this season (total cost is going to be about $5500 for the season including registration but excluding splash fees). This is roughly the increase we were expecting by moving up a group. The site’s top training group is another $110 more per month than we will be paying next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What age and how many practices a week?

Machine's top group- national team is "only" around $6100 (varies by site). This excludes meet fees.

MS age, top practice group.

[Anonymous]

I’m impressed that you can do it now on one fed salary

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sitting here debating whether to look into changing teams. We haven’t lived here long and understand swim is just expensive in the DMV but our DS’s monthly fees have increased from $385->$430 and are now going to be $510/mo for next season. On top of that there is an increase in the annual registration fee but as far as I can tell USA Swimming hasn’t increased their fee, maybe PVS has?? He is moving up a group due to age so the $510 includes one add’l practice each week but $6500 a year BEFORE Splash Fees is crazy steep. It’s about $1000 more for next season than this current season 🫣

We all want coaches to be well paid and I know lane space is expensive but at some point things become cost prohibitive, especially with all of the economic uncertainty and folks losing jobs left and right. We aren’t a ‘typical’ DCUM family with dual incomes, just a single fed paycheck.

He’s happy with his current team (coaches and peers) and it is the closest to our house and we have a great carpool from our neighborhood which I’d hate to lose so I’m very hesitant to look into switching but these prices feel like a gut punch.

Are all area teams increasing prices? Are other NCAP sites increasing prices?

Makos for the same level practice group looks to be under $4500/year.

Anyone know a good website to sell some feet pics?!!

Move to the Marlins. A lot less. NCAP and Machine are the two most expensive clubs in the area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1. Swimming is expensive.
2. What is cost prohibitive to you is not cost prohibitive to plenty of people.
3. They will be able to fill all practices with people that can afford this and future price increases.

Thanks! I think it’s more than the basic supply and demand and I appreciate that many others in the area have much higher incomes. Continued increases will affect more and more folks and swimming won’t be an attainable sport for many families. USA Swimming tried to tackle rising costs when it introduced new membership levels and limited tech suits for the 12U because they understand that for the sport to flourish it has to accessible for families. Just being a sport of the rich who can afford it is a recipe for disaster.

In our case, I’m sure it would be a hit for NCAP if we left as DS is a top swimmer in PVS and routinely swims their A relays at JOs, wins events and places in the top 5, etc. Their ‘product’ as a team decreases as they won’t have as much top talent if they price themselves out reach for families of talented swimmers.

For comparison, Mission Viejo (one of the top teams in the country) that practices outside of LA is $345/mo for the same level. Bolles in Florida (also a top national program) is $220/mo, SwimMac in North Carolina (arguably the top team in the Nation but lower CoL) would be $300/mo for the same level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m impressed that you can do it now on one fed salary

Um, thanks…I guess 🤔

But that’s kind of the point. If a solid middle class family struggles to afford it then it might be unsustainable. We’d love to be a dual income family but the job market is ridiculously tight right now so it is what it is. I don’t think high swim fees are good for the swimming community in the long run.

We only have one kid still at home. I’m so thankful that when their older siblings were swimming fees were 1/4 to 1/3 of what we pay here. No idea how families afford multiple swimmers in the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Swimming is expensive.
2. What is cost prohibitive to you is not cost prohibitive to plenty of people.
3. They will be able to fill all practices with people that can afford this and future price increases.

Thanks! I think it’s more than the basic supply and demand and I appreciate that many others in the area have much higher incomes. Continued increases will affect more and more folks and swimming won’t be an attainable sport for many families. USA Swimming tried to tackle rising costs when it introduced new membership levels and limited tech suits for the 12U because they understand that for the sport to flourish it has to accessible for families. Just being a sport of the rich who can afford it is a recipe for disaster.

In our case, I’m sure it would be a hit for NCAP if we left as DS is a top swimmer in PVS and routinely swims their A relays at JOs, wins events and places in the top 5, etc. Their ‘product’ as a team decreases as they won’t have as much top talent if they price themselves out reach for families of talented swimmers.

For comparison, Mission Viejo (one of the top teams in the country) that practices outside of LA is $345/mo for the same level. Bolles in Florida (also a top national program) is $220/mo, SwimMac in North Carolina (arguably the top team in the Nation but lower CoL) would be $300/mo for the same level.

Serious question, have you asked for a discount from the club? Oftentimes, they have that ability particularly when you approach it as - we love the coaches and the club but with fees raised and our income it is not doable. If they can give a discount they will. If not, they know why you moved to the Makos or Marlins, no hard feelings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Swimming is expensive.
2. What is cost prohibitive to you is not cost prohibitive to plenty of people.
3. They will be able to fill all practices with people that can afford this and future price increases.

Thanks! I think it’s more than the basic supply and demand and I appreciate that many others in the area have much higher incomes. Continued increases will affect more and more folks and swimming won’t be an attainable sport for many families. USA Swimming tried to tackle rising costs when it introduced new membership levels and limited tech suits for the 12U because they understand that for the sport to flourish it has to accessible for families. Just being a sport of the rich who can afford it is a recipe for disaster.

In our case, I’m sure it would be a hit for NCAP if we left as DS is a top swimmer in PVS and routinely swims their A relays at JOs, wins events and places in the top 5, etc. Their ‘product’ as a team decreases as they won’t have as much top talent if they price themselves out reach for families of talented swimmers.

For comparison, Mission Viejo (one of the top teams in the country) that practices outside of LA is $345/mo for the same level. Bolles in Florida (also a top national program) is $220/mo, SwimMac in North Carolina (arguably the top team in the Nation but lower CoL) would be $300/mo for the same level.

FWIW, I'm not sure you can do a true apples-to-apples comparison without factoring in cost of living in the area and pool capacity. I've noticed that equivalent county rec centers in NC are a lot cheaper, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Swimming is expensive.
2. What is cost prohibitive to you is not cost prohibitive to plenty of people.
3. They will be able to fill all practices with people that can afford this and future price increases.

Thanks! I think it’s more than the basic supply and demand and I appreciate that many others in the area have much higher incomes. Continued increases will affect more and more folks and swimming won’t be an attainable sport for many families. USA Swimming tried to tackle rising costs when it introduced new membership levels and limited tech suits for the 12U because they understand that for the sport to flourish it has to accessible for families. Just being a sport of the rich who can afford it is a recipe for disaster.

In our case, I’m sure it would be a hit for NCAP if we left as DS is a top swimmer in PVS and routinely swims their A relays at JOs, wins events and places in the top 5, etc. Their ‘product’ as a team decreases as they won’t have as much top talent if they price themselves out reach for families of talented swimmers.

For comparison, Mission Viejo (one of the top teams in the country) that practices outside of LA is $345/mo for the same level. Bolles in Florida (also a top national program) is $220/mo, SwimMac in North Carolina (arguably the top team in the Nation but lower CoL) would be $300/mo for the same level.

FWIW, I'm not sure you can do a true apples-to-apples comparison without factoring in cost of living in the area and pool capacity. I've noticed that equivalent county rec centers in NC are a lot cheaper, too.

These clubs all own and operate their own pools- keeps costs much lower. Jacksonville and North Carolina are both far lower of cost of living. Nadadores have forever owned their own pool, though I don’t know about COL out there. I know it’s not low in Irvine but not out in/ towards inland empire. More relevant comparisons might be Novaquatics and LIAC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Swimming is expensive.
2. What is cost prohibitive to you is not cost prohibitive to plenty of people.
3. They will be able to fill all practices with people that can afford this and future price increases.

Continued increases will affect more and more folks and swimming won’t be an attainable sport for many families…Just being a sport of the rich who can afford it is a recipe for disaster.

In our case, I’m sure it would be a hit for NCAP if we left…

NCAP is a business. NCAP is out to make money. And there’s enough money that they can change what they want, even if it’s bad for swimming. What is bad for swimming is not NCAP’s issue- that’s a USA swimming issue.

And no matter how important you think your kid is, no one swimmer is really important. NCAP lost one of its top young swimmers (would have won events at NCI) this year to Makos, but two PVS swimmers of the year transferred to NCAP.

In the end, it doesn’t matter. They’re still going to fill all their lanes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Swimming is expensive.
2. What is cost prohibitive to you is not cost prohibitive to plenty of people.
3. They will be able to fill all practices with people that can afford this and future price increases.

Thanks! I think it’s more than the basic supply and demand and I appreciate that many others in the area have much higher incomes. Continued increases will affect more and more folks and swimming won’t be an attainable sport for many families. USA Swimming tried to tackle rising costs when it introduced new membership levels and limited tech suits for the 12U because they understand that for the sport to flourish it has to accessible for families. Just being a sport of the rich who can afford it is a recipe for disaster.

In our case, I’m sure it would be a hit for NCAP if we left as DS is a top swimmer in PVS and routinely swims their A relays at JOs, wins events and places in the top 5, etc. Their ‘product’ as a team decreases as they won’t have as much top talent if they price themselves out reach for families of talented swimmers.

For comparison, Mission Viejo (one of the top teams in the country) that practices outside of LA is $345/mo for the same level. Bolles in Florida (also a top national program) is $220/mo, SwimMac in North Carolina (arguably the top team in the Nation but lower CoL) would be $300/mo for the same level.

FWIW, I'm not sure you can do a true apples-to-apples comparison without factoring in cost of living in the area and pool capacity. I've noticed that equivalent county rec centers in NC are a lot cheaper, too.

These clubs all own and operate their own pools- keeps costs much lower. Jacksonville and North Carolina are both far lower of cost of living. Nadadores have forever owned their own pool, though I don’t know about COL out there. I know it’s not low in Irvine but not out in/ towards inland empire. More relevant comparisons might be Novaquatics and LIAC.

Sure, every community and team are different in their costs, facilities and expenses. Those were just examples of teams we’re familiar with. Nova is a non-profit run by a parent board so very different from NCAP which is a business. Looks like their top groups are around $200/mo. LIAC seems to be in the $500-600 range.

For most middle class families in this area it’s just getting ridiculously expensive.

We’ll be talking with the Head Coach to see what can be done and express our concerns. I just think that not everything should be pure capitalism and all about business interests when it comes to kids and creating circumstances when kids are excluded based upon those economic realities it’s not good for society or our communities.