How does your private feel about outside college counselors?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The school's counselors have lots of information that an outside consultant wouldn't have. Thye know the history of the school with the college. They can talk directly to the Admissions people about your DC and the Admissions person will almost certainly listen.

I can't see an outsider having that same kind of contact with the school.

That's not why people hire outside counselors. Parents expect that from the school, along with the outside counselor who handholds the kid through the process.

OP, my kids' school doesn't like it, but has reluctantly accepted that many people use outsiders. They ask for that information so that they can be "helpful" to the outside counselor.

The bigger question is why you feel like your kid needs so much handholding in the first place. Give your kid an opportunity to step up.

[Anonymous]

The school counselor works for the school. The private counselor works for you. This is a huge distinction, because school counselors are notorious for misleading students and encouraging them to aim low, because they want to maximize outcomes for the graduating class.

If your kid aspires for Brown, the school counselor might try and talk them into applying Wesleyan ED.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The school's counselors have lots of information that an outside consultant wouldn't have. Thye know the history of the school with the college. They can talk directly to the Admissions people about your DC and the Admissions person will almost certainly listen.

I can't see an outsider having that same kind of contact with the school.

That's not why people hire outside counselors. Parents expect that from the school, along with the outside counselor who handholds the kid through the process.

OP, my kids' school doesn't like it, but has reluctantly accepted that many people use outsiders. They ask for that information so that they can be "helpful" to the outside counselor.

The bigger question is why you feel like your kid needs so much handholding in the first place. Give your kid an opportunity to step up.

Because I want someone else to be an objective voice for my strong-willed kids. I feel like a lot of kids who get into top colleges have some guidance—from parents, school CC, outside CCs, or teachers. If you can afford it, why not give them access to as much objective information as possible when applying to college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The school counselor works for the school. The private counselor works for you. This is a huge distinction, because school counselors are notorious for misleading students and encouraging them to aim low, because they want to maximize outcomes for the graduating class.

If your kid aspires for Brown, the school counselor might try and talk them into applying Wesleyan ED.

Oh so true!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The school counselor works for the school. The private counselor works for you. This is a huge distinction, because school counselors are notorious for misleading students and encouraging them to aim low, because they want to maximize outcomes for the graduating class.

If your kid aspires for Brown, the school counselor might try and talk them into applying Wesleyan ED.

This is exactly right. We hired a private college counselor and it worked really well to get unbiased feedback and suggestions. But our school college counselor did speak directly to colleges to advocate and get feedback prior to their decisions being made.

[Anonymous]

What are the go-to college counselors in the area?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The school counselor works for the school. The private counselor works for you. This is a huge distinction, because school counselors are notorious for misleading students and encouraging them to aim low, because they want to maximize outcomes for the graduating class.

If your kid aspires for Brown, the school counselor might try and talk them into applying Wesleyan ED.

Oh so true!!

This reminds me of my own experience years ago at an independent often discussed here. Our college counselor at the time tried to get me to apply ED to the Head of School's alma mater. I'm sure it was a good school, but no one had ever heard of it and it was in a state I clearly stated I didn't want to live in. It was also below the tier of school I should have been applying to!
My parents were not involved in the process as much as they probably should have been, but at least I had the common sense to go against the counselor's wishes.

[Anonymous]

I don't care how they feel. If they did a better job I wouldn't have had to hire one.

[Anonymous]

The bigger question is why you feel like your kid needs so much handholding in the first place. Give your kid an opportunity to step up.

Have you been through the process? There are so many essays students need to write when applying to colleges -- an outside advisor can be the nag and the reviewer of essays so as a parent, you keep the peace with your child. If your child is at a very competitive school, the pressure is unreal during the college process and not only do students have to write 1 million essays, they have to keep up their grades During senior year

[Anonymous]

You aren't the first parents to do this.

This certainly shows a lack of confidence in them. But maybe you can explain that away.

Do you really think you can keep this a secret? What happens when the school talks to a college and finds out from them that they have also spoken with a consultant about your DC?

What happens when your DC shares this with a friend or the schools college counselor asks them?

I would recommend being honest. Unless you really don't care about your reputation.

Then there the question of what these outside counselors will do for you that the school cannot. It's hard to imagine an outside counselor having the same relationship with the colleges that the schools do. These relationships between the two schools is symbiotic and they have histories and reservoirs of trust.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The school counselor works for the school. The private counselor works for you. This is a huge distinction, because school counselors are notorious for misleading students and encouraging them to aim low, because they want to maximize outcomes for the graduating class.

If your kid aspires for Brown, the school counselor might try and talk them into applying Wesleyan ED.

The outside counselor works for themselves and is highly incented to tell you what they think you want to hear.

In what percent of the instance do you think consultants are given an initial list of schools that they look at and have to restrain themselves from rolling their eyes?

They might privately realize that your DC has no real shot at Brown and should be applying to schools they have a real chance of being accepted at. But they'll maintain the Brown, Penn, Cornell charade as long as necessary.

In many years of working with consultants of all stripes, you come to recognize that the product is never what you hoped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The school counselor works for the school. The private counselor works for you. This is a huge distinction, because school counselors are notorious for misleading students and encouraging them to aim low, because they want to maximize outcomes for the graduating class.

If your kid aspires for Brown, the school counselor might try and talk them into applying Wesleyan ED.

The outside counselor works for themselves and is highly incented to tell you what they think you want to hear.

In what percent of the instance do you think consultants are given an initial list of schools that they look at and have to restrain themselves from rolling their eyes?

They might privately realize that your DC has no real shot at Brown and should be applying to schools they have a real chance of being accepted at. But they'll maintain the Brown, Penn, Cornell charade as long as necessary.

In many years of working with consultants of all stripes, you come to recognize that the product is never what you hoped.

I agree that people have a delusional view of what schools their kids can get into.

However.

I sometimes wonder if schools sometimes try to develop relationships with colleges by feeding them better students and ask them to take the occasional well-connected mediocre student.
They might push you towards a well ranked school that would love your student but would not be a great fit.
I have seen counselors pushing kids away from certain majors because they would end up at the colorado school of mines or something instead of William & Mary.

[Anonymous]

These counselors want to please the students and the parents. That's how they keep their reputation on campus and their jobs.

That's their motivation.

They are highly unlikely to trade that off for some rather abstract strategy of send a school better students so that sometime in the future they might prevail upon them to take a marginal one.

If you are an experienced private school parent, you know how this works. It's the same thing you may have seen with teachers, coaches and administrators.

As opposed to Publics, Privates really do care about the happiness of the customers.

The gentle pushing I've seen done is most often based on the counselor's experience and their read of your DC's file.

But I have seen Private school counselors aggressively try to sell colleges on applicants who the college is lukewarm about. They do this when they sense that the DC really wants to go there and that he will be able to do the work there.

They want happy students and parents if they can do it without damaging the credibility they have with the colleges.

[Anonymous]

There's an actual "art" to working with people like high school admissions staff that will allow you to get their best efforts.

And that art does not include threatening them or hiring outside consultants to replace or somehow augment them.

I have had conversations with friends who are physicians about this. The question is does the patient's attitude towards them make a difference in how they behave?

Their response has been, "Absolutely".

"We are human beings. There are people who we like working with and it does make a difference."