School orchestra, MCYO or PVYO?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No school orchestra is ever going to come close to the quality of a private selective youth orchestra, OP. It's just not the same experience at all. This means that the kids who get into MCYO, etc, are bored to death in school ensembles. If they do it, it's only because it makes them eligible for state or county ensembles. My DD has been in MCYO for years, and only participates in her school orchestra because it's a relaxing period with friends outside of her advanced or AP classes, and she can get into All-State every year.

For the kids who haven't yet developed the competencies for MCYO, etc, school orchestra is extremely useful to hone listening skills in a group setting.

None of it is a lot of work, since group music is mostly practiced as a group, and very little outside of that (the music is relatively easy, it's playing together that's hard). The bulk of the work of a musician comes from private lessons.

But if you want to free up some time to explore other things, by all means! Middle school is the right time for it.

I completely disagree that MCYO kids are bored to death. I’ve taught MCYO All-State kids at the MS level and they were not bored. They worked on their advanced skills at the same time their less experienced peers were working on lower level skills. It’s very easy to differentiate strings instruction versus wind instruments. Less experienced kids are playing in first position while more experienced kids are playing in different positions, on different strings, using harmonics, etc. All techniques they need to practice for McYO. These advanced musicians are also leaders in the school orchestra playing first parts versus playing 2nd or 3rd parts in the MCYO factory.

I agree. My kid has all the “advanced” credentials and it drives him nuts to see the other kids who also play in private orchestras devalue school ensembles. Good musicians can learn and grow in a lot of environments. The attitude that “I am superior” is a barrier to that growth and disrespectful of other ensemble members and teachers.

Sorry, there is an immense gulf in skills between school orchestra and private orchestra. This is simply a statement of fact. My kid is routinely concertmaster or principal in MCYO, and the only reason she takes school orchestra is to relax with friends and be eligible for All-State. She's not learning anything at all in the school orchestra. The conductor asks her to demonstrate all the hard techniques and she gets some solos. She stays professional throughout... that's a skill that she learned in MCYO. There is no bad-mouthing the teacher, or the level of the other kids, or anything negative whatsoever. But it's a FACT that this is easy-peasy. MCYO is also pretty easy, to be honest.

Do not make assumptions, PP, and do not confuse honest conversation with condescension.

I am the PP. My kid is in all state and unimpressed with the bad attitude of the other private orchestra kids in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, what do you consider a big commitment? MCYO is weekly, with a weekly private lesson (mandatory) and optional ensemble (highly recommended and only every few weeks). PVYO, not fully sure, but I don't think they have a private lesson requirement, but it's recommended. Most sports/activities at higher levels are a few times a week minimum so it's not a huge commitment but with MCYO you cannot miss sessions except illness.

There is no extra ensemble to speak of. They're tried to get it off the ground, but few kids participate. The private lesson is required, and you need to enter your private instructor's name and contact info when signing up. But they're not going to check that you attend all year - it's more that the consistency in private instruction ensures you're good enough for MCYO. MCYO does not require, like another PP said, participation in one's school orchestra.

[Anonymous]

OP, if your kid is competitive at MCYO or PVYO level, your kid won’t practice much for school orchestra music. My older one joins both school orchestra and MCYO. He enjoys attending both. My younger one joins MCYO only and likes to take other elective at school instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No school orchestra is ever going to come close to the quality of a private selective youth orchestra, OP. It's just not the same experience at all. This means that the kids who get into MCYO, etc, are bored to death in school ensembles. If they do it, it's only because it makes them eligible for state or county ensembles. My DD has been in MCYO for years, and only participates in her school orchestra because it's a relaxing period with friends outside of her advanced or AP classes, and she can get into All-State every year.

For the kids who haven't yet developed the competencies for MCYO, etc, school orchestra is extremely useful to hone listening skills in a group setting.

None of it is a lot of work, since group music is mostly practiced as a group, and very little outside of that (the music is relatively easy, it's playing together that's hard). The bulk of the work of a musician comes from private lessons.

But if you want to free up some time to explore other things, by all means! Middle school is the right time for it.

I completely disagree that MCYO kids are bored to death. I’ve taught MCYO All-State kids at the MS level and they were not bored. They worked on their advanced skills at the same time their less experienced peers were working on lower level skills. It’s very easy to differentiate strings instruction versus wind instruments. Less experienced kids are playing in first position while more experienced kids are playing in different positions, on different strings, using harmonics, etc. All techniques they need to practice for McYO. These advanced musicians are also leaders in the school orchestra playing first parts versus playing 2nd or 3rd parts in the MCYO factory.

I agree. My kid has all the “advanced” credentials and it drives him nuts to see the other kids who also play in private orchestras devalue school ensembles. Good musicians can learn and grow in a lot of environments. The attitude that “I am superior” is a barrier to that growth and disrespectful of other ensemble members and teachers.

Sorry, there is an immense gulf in skills between school orchestra and private orchestra. This is simply a statement of fact. My kid is routinely concertmaster or principal in MCYO, and the only reason she takes school orchestra is to relax with friends and be eligible for All-State. She's not learning anything at all in the school orchestra. The conductor asks her to demonstrate all the hard techniques and she gets some solos. She stays professional throughout... that's a skill that she learned in MCYO. There is no bad-mouthing the teacher, or the level of the other kids, or anything negative whatsoever. But it's a FACT that this is easy-peasy. MCYO is also pretty easy, to be honest.

Do not make assumptions, PP, and do not confuse honest conversation with condescension.

I am the PP. My kid is in all state and unimpressed with the bad attitude of the other private orchestra kids in school.

Hmm. Sorry, but you're the one who sounds sneering and condescending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No school orchestra is ever going to come close to the quality of a private selective youth orchestra, OP. It's just not the same experience at all. This means that the kids who get into MCYO, etc, are bored to death in school ensembles. If they do it, it's only because it makes them eligible for state or county ensembles. My DD has been in MCYO for years, and only participates in her school orchestra because it's a relaxing period with friends outside of her advanced or AP classes, and she can get into All-State every year.

For the kids who haven't yet developed the competencies for MCYO, etc, school orchestra is extremely useful to hone listening skills in a group setting.

None of it is a lot of work, since group music is mostly practiced as a group, and very little outside of that (the music is relatively easy, it's playing together that's hard). The bulk of the work of a musician comes from private lessons.

But if you want to free up some time to explore other things, by all means! Middle school is the right time for it.

I completely disagree that MCYO kids are bored to death. I’ve taught MCYO All-State kids at the MS level and they were not bored. They worked on their advanced skills at the same time their less experienced peers were working on lower level skills. It’s very easy to differentiate strings instruction versus wind instruments. Less experienced kids are playing in first position while more experienced kids are playing in different positions, on different strings, using harmonics, etc. All techniques they need to practice for McYO. These advanced musicians are also leaders in the school orchestra playing first parts versus playing 2nd or 3rd parts in the MCYO factory.

I agree. My kid has all the “advanced” credentials and it drives him nuts to see the other kids who also play in private orchestras devalue school ensembles. Good musicians can learn and grow in a lot of environments. The attitude that “I am superior” is a barrier to that growth and disrespectful of other ensemble members and teachers.

Sorry, there is an immense gulf in skills between school orchestra and private orchestra. This is simply a statement of fact. My kid is routinely concertmaster or principal in MCYO, and the only reason she takes school orchestra is to relax with friends and be eligible for All-State. She's not learning anything at all in the school orchestra. The conductor asks her to demonstrate all the hard techniques and she gets some solos. She stays professional throughout... that's a skill that she learned in MCYO. There is no bad-mouthing the teacher, or the level of the other kids, or anything negative whatsoever. But it's a FACT that this is easy-peasy. MCYO is also pretty easy, to be honest.

Do not make assumptions, PP, and do not confuse honest conversation with condescension.

I am the PP. My kid is in all state and unimpressed with the bad attitude of the other private orchestra kids in school.

Did they not get in or do you refuse to let them participate. They don't have a bad attitude. Your kid does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what do you consider a big commitment? MCYO is weekly, with a weekly private lesson (mandatory) and optional ensemble (highly recommended and only every few weeks). PVYO, not fully sure, but I don't think they have a private lesson requirement, but it's recommended. Most sports/activities at higher levels are a few times a week minimum so it's not a huge commitment but with MCYO you cannot miss sessions except illness.

There is no extra ensemble to speak of. They're tried to get it off the ground, but few kids participate. The private lesson is required, and you need to enter your private instructor's name and contact info when signing up. But they're not going to check that you attend all year - it's more that the consistency in private instruction ensures you're good enough for MCYO. MCYO does not require, like another PP said, participation in one's school orchestra.

There are extra ensembles but it depends on the instrument. Our child is in an additional ensemble. MCYO paperwork prefers kids be in school orchestra, but they make exeptions if its not offered, scheduling conflicts, etc. Our school orchestra is a waste of time, more of a hang out relax class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine does both the school band and PVYO (which has a band option - she is not into orchestra so not interested in MCYO).

MCYO has all instrumens starting in MS.

Yes but it is only orchestra I think, not band. Mine really prefers band to orchestra. She knows she could play in an orchestra but for whatever reason prefers band. (I was different growing up — played a wind instrument in an orchestra.)

PVYO offers both band and orchestra starting in MS so that is why she has only auditioned for PVYO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No school orchestra is ever going to come close to the quality of a private selective youth orchestra, OP. It's just not the same experience at all. This means that the kids who get into MCYO, etc, are bored to death in school ensembles. If they do it, it's only because it makes them eligible for state or county ensembles. My DD has been in MCYO for years, and only participates in her school orchestra because it's a relaxing period with friends outside of her advanced or AP classes, and she can get into All-State every year.

For the kids who haven't yet developed the competencies for MCYO, etc, school orchestra is extremely useful to hone listening skills in a group setting.

None of it is a lot of work, since group music is mostly practiced as a group, and very little outside of that (the music is relatively easy, it's playing together that's hard). The bulk of the work of a musician comes from private lessons.

But if you want to free up some time to explore other things, by all means! Middle school is the right time for it.

I completely disagree that MCYO kids are bored to death. I’ve taught MCYO All-State kids at the MS level and they were not bored. They worked on their advanced skills at the same time their less experienced peers were working on lower level skills. It’s very easy to differentiate strings instruction versus wind instruments. Less experienced kids are playing in first position while more experienced kids are playing in different positions, on different strings, using harmonics, etc. All techniques they need to practice for McYO. These advanced musicians are also leaders in the school orchestra playing first parts versus playing 2nd or 3rd parts in the MCYO factory.

I agree. My kid has all the “advanced” credentials and it drives him nuts to see the other kids who also play in private orchestras devalue school ensembles. Good musicians can learn and grow in a lot of environments. The attitude that “I am superior” is a barrier to that growth and disrespectful of other ensemble members and teachers.

Sorry, there is an immense gulf in skills between school orchestra and private orchestra. This is simply a statement of fact. My kid is routinely concertmaster or principal in MCYO, and the only reason she takes school orchestra is to relax with friends and be eligible for All-State. She's not learning anything at all in the school orchestra. The conductor asks her to demonstrate all the hard techniques and she gets some solos. She stays professional throughout... that's a skill that she learned in MCYO. There is no bad-mouthing the teacher, or the level of the other kids, or anything negative whatsoever. But it's a FACT that this is easy-peasy. MCYO is also pretty easy, to be honest.

Do not make assumptions, PP, and do not confuse honest conversation with condescension.

Your attitude is gross.

[Anonymous]

Also noteworthy, I don't know about MCYO, but PVYO takes a rehearsal/concert prep break for Allstate/County Honors season in January - early February. So you can balance in school, private + honorific orchestra/band.

I would also add YAA orchestra to the list of private orchestras. Same conductor as MCYO, but the music is Broadway rather than classical. This year Disney in concert and Hunchback of Notre Dame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine does both the school band and PVYO (which has a band option - she is not into orchestra so not interested in MCYO).

MCYO has all instrumens starting in MS.

Yes but it is only orchestra I think, not band. Mine really prefers band to orchestra. She knows she could play in an orchestra but for whatever reason prefers band. (I was different growing up — played a wind instrument in an orchestra.)

PVYO offers both band and orchestra starting in MS so that is why she has only auditioned for PVYO.

Pvyo is a great group. I forced MCYO for one year and now my child really enjoys it. I’ve heard good things about both groups depending on the child. We went with MCYO as they were very helpful in talking us through the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also noteworthy, I don't know about MCYO, but PVYO takes a rehearsal/concert prep break for Allstate/County Honors season in January - early February. So you can balance in school, private + honorific orchestra/band.

I would also add YAA orchestra to the list of private orchestras. Same conductor as MCYO, but the music is Broadway rather than classical. This year Disney in concert and Hunchback of Notre Dame.

I was curious about YAA. It looks like fun. Which conductor? MCYO does not break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No school orchestra is ever going to come close to the quality of a private selective youth orchestra, OP. It's just not the same experience at all. This means that the kids who get into MCYO, etc, are bored to death in school ensembles. If they do it, it's only because it makes them eligible for state or county ensembles. My DD has been in MCYO for years, and only participates in her school orchestra because it's a relaxing period with friends outside of her advanced or AP classes, and she can get into All-State every year.

For the kids who haven't yet developed the competencies for MCYO, etc, school orchestra is extremely useful to hone listening skills in a group setting.

None of it is a lot of work, since group music is mostly practiced as a group, and very little outside of that (the music is relatively easy, it's playing together that's hard). The bulk of the work of a musician comes from private lessons.

But if you want to free up some time to explore other things, by all means! Middle school is the right time for it.

I completely disagree that MCYO kids are bored to death. I’ve taught MCYO All-State kids at the MS level and they were not bored. They worked on their advanced skills at the same time their less experienced peers were working on lower level skills. It’s very easy to differentiate strings instruction versus wind instruments. Less experienced kids are playing in first position while more experienced kids are playing in different positions, on different strings, using harmonics, etc. All techniques they need to practice for McYO. These advanced musicians are also leaders in the school orchestra playing first parts versus playing 2nd or 3rd parts in the MCYO factory.

I agree. My kid has all the “advanced” credentials and it drives him nuts to see the other kids who also play in private orchestras devalue school ensembles. Good musicians can learn and grow in a lot of environments. The attitude that “I am superior” is a barrier to that growth and disrespectful of other ensemble members and teachers.

Sorry, there is an immense gulf in skills between school orchestra and private orchestra. This is simply a statement of fact. My kid is routinely concertmaster or principal in MCYO, and the only reason she takes school orchestra is to relax with friends and be eligible for All-State. She's not learning anything at all in the school orchestra. The conductor asks her to demonstrate all the hard techniques and she gets some solos. She stays professional throughout... that's a skill that she learned in MCYO. There is no bad-mouthing the teacher, or the level of the other kids, or anything negative whatsoever. But it's a FACT that this is easy-peasy. MCYO is also pretty easy, to be honest.

Do not make assumptions, PP, and do not confuse honest conversation with condescension.

Your attitude is gross.

??? Did we read the same thing? There's nothing there to be offended about unless you're hugely jealous or insecure or something weird like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also noteworthy, I don't know about MCYO, but PVYO takes a rehearsal/concert prep break for Allstate/County Honors season in January - early February. So you can balance in school, private + honorific orchestra/band.

I would also add YAA orchestra to the list of private orchestras. Same conductor as MCYO, but the music is Broadway rather than classical. This year Disney in concert and Hunchback of Notre Dame.

I was curious about YAA. It looks like fun. Which conductor? MCYO does not break.

Sanz

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No school orchestra is ever going to come close to the quality of a private selective youth orchestra, OP. It's just not the same experience at all. This means that the kids who get into MCYO, etc, are bored to death in school ensembles. If they do it, it's only because it makes them eligible for state or county ensembles. My DD has been in MCYO for years, and only participates in her school orchestra because it's a relaxing period with friends outside of her advanced or AP classes, and she can get into All-State every year.

For the kids who haven't yet developed the competencies for MCYO, etc, school orchestra is extremely useful to hone listening skills in a group setting.

None of it is a lot of work, since group music is mostly practiced as a group, and very little outside of that (the music is relatively easy, it's playing together that's hard). The bulk of the work of a musician comes from private lessons.

But if you want to free up some time to explore other things, by all means! Middle school is the right time for it.

I completely disagree that MCYO kids are bored to death. I’ve taught MCYO All-State kids at the MS level and they were not bored. They worked on their advanced skills at the same time their less experienced peers were working on lower level skills. It’s very easy to differentiate strings instruction versus wind instruments. Less experienced kids are playing in first position while more experienced kids are playing in different positions, on different strings, using harmonics, etc. All techniques they need to practice for McYO. These advanced musicians are also leaders in the school orchestra playing first parts versus playing 2nd or 3rd parts in the MCYO factory.

I agree. My kid has all the “advanced” credentials and it drives him nuts to see the other kids who also play in private orchestras devalue school ensembles. Good musicians can learn and grow in a lot of environments. The attitude that “I am superior” is a barrier to that growth and disrespectful of other ensemble members and teachers.

Sorry, there is an immense gulf in skills between school orchestra and private orchestra. This is simply a statement of fact. My kid is routinely concertmaster or principal in MCYO, and the only reason she takes school orchestra is to relax with friends and be eligible for All-State. She's not learning anything at all in the school orchestra. The conductor asks her to demonstrate all the hard techniques and she gets some solos. She stays professional throughout... that's a skill that she learned in MCYO. There is no bad-mouthing the teacher, or the level of the other kids, or anything negative whatsoever. But it's a FACT that this is easy-peasy. MCYO is also pretty easy, to be honest.

Do not make assumptions, PP, and do not confuse honest conversation with condescension.

Your attitude is gross.

??? Did we read the same thing? There's nothing there to be offended about unless you're hugely jealous or insecure or something weird like that.

She was completely condescending.

[Anonymous]

As an orchestra parent in a different orchestra in a different state, I find it's a lot of parent commitment. Annually 5 mandatory school concerts/assessments, 4 private orchestra concerts, 3-4 district or similar opportunities, 2 camps kid attends with concerts. Plus auditions for some of those and weekly private lessons and lots of practicing. There's always something related to orchestra going on. It's not too much for my kid, so we do it, but it's a lot for the family.