School orchestra, MCYO or PVYO?

[Anonymous]

For those with kids playing in the orchestra, do they generally join the school orchestra and do MCYO, PVYO or DCYO (if they get in), or is this too much orchestra? My daughter plays the violin and is hoping to join the Hoover Middle School Orchestra, but also planning to audition for the other youth orchestras in the area. Assuming she is able to get into one of the youth orchestras and joins her school orchestra, I am wondering if this will be too much of a commitment to one activity when I feel she is at the age where she should be exploring other interests. Thanks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those with kids playing in the orchestra, do they generally join the school orchestra and do MCYO, PVYO or DCYO (if they get in), or is this too much orchestra? My daughter plays the violin and is hoping to join the Hoover Middle School Orchestra, but also planning to audition for the other youth orchestras in the area. Assuming she is able to get into one of the youth orchestras and joins her school orchestra, I am wondering if this will be too much of a commitment to one activity when I feel she is at the age where she should be exploring other interests. Thanks

If you want to audition for All-State, you have to be enrolled in the music program at your school, not just an extracurricular one (no matter how good the extracurricular one may be).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those with kids playing in the orchestra, do they generally join the school orchestra and do MCYO, PVYO or DCYO (if they get in), or is this too much orchestra? My daughter plays the violin and is hoping to join the Hoover Middle School Orchestra, but also planning to audition for the other youth orchestras in the area. Assuming she is able to get into one of the youth orchestras and joins her school orchestra, I am wondering if this will be too much of a commitment to one activity when I feel she is at the age where she should be exploring other interests. Thanks

If you want to audition for All-State, you have to be enrolled in the music program at your school, not just an extracurricular one (no matter how good the extracurricular one may be).

+1 to the above. As far as doing County or Honors youth orchestra that really varies by student. Some do some don’t.

[Anonymous]

No school orchestra is ever going to come close to the quality of a private selective youth orchestra, OP. It's just not the same experience at all. This means that the kids who get into MCYO, etc, are bored to death in school ensembles. If they do it, it's only because it makes them eligible for state or county ensembles. My DD has been in MCYO for years, and only participates in her school orchestra because it's a relaxing period with friends outside of her advanced or AP classes, and she can get into All-State every year.

For the kids who haven't yet developed the competencies for MCYO, etc, school orchestra is extremely useful to hone listening skills in a group setting.

None of it is a lot of work, since group music is mostly practiced as a group, and very little outside of that (the music is relatively easy, it's playing together that's hard). The bulk of the work of a musician comes from private lessons.

But if you want to free up some time to explore other things, by all means! Middle school is the right time for it.

[Anonymous]

School orchestra will have a wider variety of genres and allow kids to audition for all county, all state and participate in solo and ensemble. School orchestra will also have more opportunities for a youth orchestra type kid to have solos, play 1st violin parts, etc. also, don’t forget CPYO. Some youth orchestras require/strongly encourage students to enroll in their school orchestra classes. You wouldn’t want little Larla labeled as elitist or entitled if she proclaims to be too good to play in the school orchestra.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No school orchestra is ever going to come close to the quality of a private selective youth orchestra, OP. It's just not the same experience at all. This means that the kids who get into MCYO, etc, are bored to death in school ensembles. If they do it, it's only because it makes them eligible for state or county ensembles. My DD has been in MCYO for years, and only participates in her school orchestra because it's a relaxing period with friends outside of her advanced or AP classes, and she can get into All-State every year.

For the kids who haven't yet developed the competencies for MCYO, etc, school orchestra is extremely useful to hone listening skills in a group setting.

None of it is a lot of work, since group music is mostly practiced as a group, and very little outside of that (the music is relatively easy, it's playing together that's hard). The bulk of the work of a musician comes from private lessons.

But if you want to free up some time to explore other things, by all means! Middle school is the right time for it.

I completely disagree that MCYO kids are bored to death. I’ve taught MCYO All-State kids at the MS level and they were not bored. They worked on their advanced skills at the same time their less experienced peers were working on lower level skills. It’s very easy to differentiate strings instruction versus wind instruments. Less experienced kids are playing in first position while more experienced kids are playing in different positions, on different strings, using harmonics, etc. All techniques they need to practice for McYO. These advanced musicians are also leaders in the school orchestra playing first parts versus playing 2nd or 3rd parts in the MCYO factory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No school orchestra is ever going to come close to the quality of a private selective youth orchestra, OP. It's just not the same experience at all. This means that the kids who get into MCYO, etc, are bored to death in school ensembles. If they do it, it's only because it makes them eligible for state or county ensembles. My DD has been in MCYO for years, and only participates in her school orchestra because it's a relaxing period with friends outside of her advanced or AP classes, and she can get into All-State every year.

For the kids who haven't yet developed the competencies for MCYO, etc, school orchestra is extremely useful to hone listening skills in a group setting.

None of it is a lot of work, since group music is mostly practiced as a group, and very little outside of that (the music is relatively easy, it's playing together that's hard). The bulk of the work of a musician comes from private lessons.

But if you want to free up some time to explore other things, by all means! Middle school is the right time for it.

I completely disagree that MCYO kids are bored to death. I’ve taught MCYO All-State kids at the MS level and they were not bored. They worked on their advanced skills at the same time their less experienced peers were working on lower level skills. It’s very easy to differentiate strings instruction versus wind instruments. Less experienced kids are playing in first position while more experienced kids are playing in different positions, on different strings, using harmonics, etc. All techniques they need to practice for McYO. These advanced musicians are also leaders in the school orchestra playing first parts versus playing 2nd or 3rd parts in the MCYO factory.

+1 And some kids even use the opportunity to learn other instruments.

[Anonymous]

Mine does both the school band and PVYO (which has a band option - she is not into orchestra so not interested in MCYO).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No school orchestra is ever going to come close to the quality of a private selective youth orchestra, OP. It's just not the same experience at all. This means that the kids who get into MCYO, etc, are bored to death in school ensembles. If they do it, it's only because it makes them eligible for state or county ensembles. My DD has been in MCYO for years, and only participates in her school orchestra because it's a relaxing period with friends outside of her advanced or AP classes, and she can get into All-State every year.

For the kids who haven't yet developed the competencies for MCYO, etc, school orchestra is extremely useful to hone listening skills in a group setting.

None of it is a lot of work, since group music is mostly practiced as a group, and very little outside of that (the music is relatively easy, it's playing together that's hard). The bulk of the work of a musician comes from private lessons.

But if you want to free up some time to explore other things, by all means! Middle school is the right time for it.

I completely disagree that MCYO kids are bored to death. I’ve taught MCYO All-State kids at the MS level and they were not bored. They worked on their advanced skills at the same time their less experienced peers were working on lower level skills. It’s very easy to differentiate strings instruction versus wind instruments. Less experienced kids are playing in first position while more experienced kids are playing in different positions, on different strings, using harmonics, etc. All techniques they need to practice for McYO. These advanced musicians are also leaders in the school orchestra playing first parts versus playing 2nd or 3rd parts in the MCYO factory.

I agree. My kid has all the “advanced” credentials and it drives him nuts to see the other kids who also play in private orchestras devalue school ensembles. Good musicians can learn and grow in a lot of environments. The attitude that “I am superior” is a barrier to that growth and disrespectful of other ensemble members and teachers.

[Anonymous]

The time commitment is not huge for youth orchestra. If your DD is interested, do the auditions next August and see how it works out.

[Anonymous]

Apply for all three. MCYO is hard to get into but it depends on the age and the instrument. Your best bet is to get in with a private instructor who works for MCYO or knows it well. Our MCYO instructor was a game-changer in terms of skill and progress.

MCYO requires kids to be in the school orchestra but I agree it's not very challenging even if you get into the highest level in HS depending on the school. It's more social for my kid.

Some kids love MCYO, and some struggle with it as it's super competitive and stressful if you don't handle that well. PVYO is not as competitive and much more relaxed so some like it better. Some families pick based off the location. Try out for all of them, then decide. For us, MCYO has been wonderful but I know other families who switched for a variety of reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No school orchestra is ever going to come close to the quality of a private selective youth orchestra, OP. It's just not the same experience at all. This means that the kids who get into MCYO, etc, are bored to death in school ensembles. If they do it, it's only because it makes them eligible for state or county ensembles. My DD has been in MCYO for years, and only participates in her school orchestra because it's a relaxing period with friends outside of her advanced or AP classes, and she can get into All-State every year.

For the kids who haven't yet developed the competencies for MCYO, etc, school orchestra is extremely useful to hone listening skills in a group setting.

None of it is a lot of work, since group music is mostly practiced as a group, and very little outside of that (the music is relatively easy, it's playing together that's hard). The bulk of the work of a musician comes from private lessons.

But if you want to free up some time to explore other things, by all means! Middle school is the right time for it.

I completely disagree that MCYO kids are bored to death. I’ve taught MCYO All-State kids at the MS level and they were not bored. They worked on their advanced skills at the same time their less experienced peers were working on lower level skills. It’s very easy to differentiate strings instruction versus wind instruments. Less experienced kids are playing in first position while more experienced kids are playing in different positions, on different strings, using harmonics, etc. All techniques they need to practice for McYO. These advanced musicians are also leaders in the school orchestra playing first parts versus playing 2nd or 3rd parts in the MCYO factory.

I agree. My kid has all the “advanced” credentials and it drives him nuts to see the other kids who also play in private orchestras devalue school ensembles. Good musicians can learn and grow in a lot of environments. The attitude that “I am superior” is a barrier to that growth and disrespectful of other ensemble members and teachers.

Maybe you should let your kid do the private orchestra. School orchestra is fine. My kid is bored and not challenged but its required by MCYO. I think my child has surpassed their band teacher at school. There is little teaching at school so if you aren't in private lessons its hard to progress. Some of the self-taught are very arrogant and think they know based off of youtube videos, so there is often a lot of conflict there.

But, you sound resentful when you have no idea the difference in the level of conducting, playing and even simple things like behavior and dress. The private orchestra's teach skills the schools don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mine does both the school band and PVYO (which has a band option - she is not into orchestra so not interested in MCYO).

MCYO has all instrumens starting in MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No school orchestra is ever going to come close to the quality of a private selective youth orchestra, OP. It's just not the same experience at all. This means that the kids who get into MCYO, etc, are bored to death in school ensembles. If they do it, it's only because it makes them eligible for state or county ensembles. My DD has been in MCYO for years, and only participates in her school orchestra because it's a relaxing period with friends outside of her advanced or AP classes, and she can get into All-State every year.

For the kids who haven't yet developed the competencies for MCYO, etc, school orchestra is extremely useful to hone listening skills in a group setting.

None of it is a lot of work, since group music is mostly practiced as a group, and very little outside of that (the music is relatively easy, it's playing together that's hard). The bulk of the work of a musician comes from private lessons.

But if you want to free up some time to explore other things, by all means! Middle school is the right time for it.

I completely disagree that MCYO kids are bored to death. I’ve taught MCYO All-State kids at the MS level and they were not bored. They worked on their advanced skills at the same time their less experienced peers were working on lower level skills. It’s very easy to differentiate strings instruction versus wind instruments. Less experienced kids are playing in first position while more experienced kids are playing in different positions, on different strings, using harmonics, etc. All techniques they need to practice for McYO. These advanced musicians are also leaders in the school orchestra playing first parts versus playing 2nd or 3rd parts in the MCYO factory.

I agree. My kid has all the “advanced” credentials and it drives him nuts to see the other kids who also play in private orchestras devalue school ensembles. Good musicians can learn and grow in a lot of environments. The attitude that “I am superior” is a barrier to that growth and disrespectful of other ensemble members and teachers.

Sorry, there is an immense gulf in skills between school orchestra and private orchestra. This is simply a statement of fact. My kid is routinely concertmaster or principal in MCYO, and the only reason she takes school orchestra is to relax with friends and be eligible for All-State. She's not learning anything at all in the school orchestra. The conductor asks her to demonstrate all the hard techniques and she gets some solos. She stays professional throughout... that's a skill that she learned in MCYO. There is no bad-mouthing the teacher, or the level of the other kids, or anything negative whatsoever. But it's a FACT that this is easy-peasy. MCYO is also pretty easy, to be honest.

Do not make assumptions, PP, and do not confuse honest conversation with condescension.

[Anonymous]

OP, what do you consider a big commitment? MCYO is weekly, with a weekly private lesson (mandatory) and optional ensemble (highly recommended and only every few weeks). PVYO, not fully sure, but I don't think they have a private lesson requirement, but it's recommended. Most sports/activities at higher levels are a few times a week minimum so it's not a huge commitment but with MCYO you cannot miss sessions except illness.