Rigor and Absences: New Harvard Policy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The writers seem to blame it on careerism when really it’s just a lower quality student who doesn’t care about education. A lot of students are in it for the jobs, and don’t care at all about what they learn, shown by the rise of Econ and CS majors everywhere.

Perhaps at Harvard those majors are not rigorous. At many other universities they are. I know many smart kids from those majors (not from H).

Harvard has long been known as the hardest Ivy to get in, easiest to graduate from. Opposite of Cornell.

It is well known Harvard profs do not care about undergraduate teaching. It is a box to be checked in their week, that’s it.

The issue surely lies with both professors and students. Many professors are lax with UG classes to avoid putting much time into them, while for students it's sometimes mental health problems, sometimes entitlement. I feel sorry for the grad TAs who have to carry the burden of much of this, at least in the big lower-level classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The writers seem to blame it on careerism when really it’s just a lower quality student who doesn’t care about education. A lot of students are in it for the jobs, and don’t care at all about what they learn, shown by the rise of Econ and CS majors everywhere.

Perhaps at Harvard those majors are not rigorous. At many other universities they are. I know many smart kids from those majors (not from H).

Harvard has long been known as the hardest Ivy to get in, easiest to graduate from. Opposite of Cornell.

It is well known Harvard profs do not care about undergraduate teaching. It is a box to be checked in their week, that’s it.

The issue surely lies with both professors and students. Many professors are lax with UG classes to avoid putting much time into them, while for students it's sometimes mental health problems, sometimes entitlement. I feel sorry for the grad TAs who have to carry the burden of much of this, at least in the big lower-level classes.

The grad TAs are getting a Harvard doctorate. At least they have a chance at tenure track employment. Feel bad for the grad TAs at other schools who are going to come out as career adjuncts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The writers seem to blame it on careerism when really it’s just a lower quality student who doesn’t care about education. A lot of students are in it for the jobs, and don’t care at all about what they learn, shown by the rise of Econ and CS majors everywhere.

Perhaps at Harvard those majors are not rigorous. At many other universities they are. I know many smart kids from those majors (not from H).

Harvard has long been known as the hardest Ivy to get in, easiest to graduate from. Opposite of Cornell.

Like PP says, it matters very little. I need employee who are equal parts collaborative, analytical, quantitative and creative. Good luck finding these people in the most rigorous programs. Most of them lean anxious/rigid non collaborative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The writers seem to blame it on careerism when really it’s just a lower quality student who doesn’t care about education. A lot of students are in it for the jobs, and don’t care at all about what they learn, shown by the rise of Econ and CS majors everywhere.

Perhaps at Harvard those majors are not rigorous. At many other universities they are. I know many smart kids from those majors (not from H).

Harvard has long been known as the hardest Ivy to get in, easiest to graduate from. Opposite of Cornell.

Like PP says, it matters very little. I need employee who are equal parts collaborative, analytical, quantitative and creative. Good luck finding these people in the most rigorous programs. Most of them lean anxious/rigid non collaborative.

What many of these kids had to do to get into Ivy has affected their overall mental health and wellbeing. It's very sad, actually. An endless hamster wheel that set the terms for the rest of their professional lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The writers seem to blame it on careerism when really it’s just a lower quality student who doesn’t care about education. A lot of students are in it for the jobs, and don’t care at all about what they learn, shown by the rise of Econ and CS majors everywhere.

Perhaps at Harvard those majors are not rigorous. At many other universities they are. I know many smart kids from those majors (not from H).

Harvard has long been known as the hardest Ivy to get in, easiest to graduate from. Opposite of Cornell.

It is well known Harvard profs do not care about undergraduate teaching. It is a box to be checked in their week, that’s it.

The issue surely lies with both professors and students. Many professors are lax with UG classes to avoid putting much time into them, while for students it's sometimes mental health problems, sometimes entitlement. I feel sorry for the grad TAs who have to carry the burden of much of this, at least in the big lower-level classes.

The grad TAs are getting a Harvard doctorate. At least they have a chance at tenure track employment. Feel bad for the grad TAs at other schools who are going to come out as career adjuncts

They're learning the hard truth about teaching, even when dealing with the best and brightest. Not for the faint of heart these days.

[Anonymous]

I’m surprised there is a school who lets students miss 2 weeks of classes without a significant, valid, issue. But I’m old school and the LAC I went to took attendance and missing too many classes impacted your grade. Good for Harvard, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The writers seem to blame it on careerism when really it’s just a lower quality student who doesn’t care about education. A lot of students are in it for the jobs, and don’t care at all about what they learn, shown by the rise of Econ and CS majors everywhere.

Maybe that is because you do not learn anything anyway….

I hire an avg of 8 kids from t10 schools every year for the last 15 years at an IB in NYC.
I’m yet to hire one who has learn enough. None of them know anything. I could care less if they took Class A, B or C. But if I give them a very complex real world problem, can they solve it? that is all I care about. I will teach them everything else I need them to know.

Investment Banking isn’t known for solving “complex real world problems”. If kids want to do that, they go work for companies trying to create nuclear fusion energy or DNA-based computer chips.

You know…actual complex real world problems. It’s laughable that you would combine that phrase and IB in the same sentence.

[Anonymous]

Harvard doesn't take the smartest students anymore. They select for all other reasons and aren't even the best college in Cambridge now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m surprised there is a school who lets students miss 2 weeks of classes without a significant, valid, issue. But I’m old school and the LAC I went to took attendance and missing too many classes impacted your grade. Good for Harvard, I guess.

Some schools only care about grades. I'd argue that attendance and participation grades are a boost to weak students. I a kid can skip class and do well on papers and the exams, then why not do something productive with their time

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m surprised there is a school who lets students miss 2 weeks of classes without a significant, valid, issue. But I’m old school and the LAC I went to took attendance and missing too many classes impacted your grade. Good for Harvard, I guess.

Some schools only care about grades. I'd argue that attendance and participation grades are a boost to weak students. I a kid can skip class and do well on papers and the exams, then why not do something productive with their time

I doubt a kid skipping class is doing something productive.

[Anonymous]

My kid at another Ivy. Friends from HS that are at Harvard, “are never there”. Skiing now (break), or in Florida a lot on the fall or traveling to London. It’s definitely a thing. Most unintellectual experience of all the kids who went Ivy.

Weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m surprised there is a school who lets students miss 2 weeks of classes without a significant, valid, issue. But I’m old school and the LAC I went to took attendance and missing too many classes impacted your grade. Good for Harvard, I guess.

It's very hard to require students to produce evidence of a "significant, valid issue". For medical privacy reasons, faculty are not allowed to ask for doctor's notes. In the post-Covid age, any student who says they are contagious must be excused from in-person attendance. Bereavement, metal and physical health, job interviews, etc. are all reasons I think deserve latitude, but students abuse them and the universities cannot police that. Professors get a lat of pressure to allow students to make up work.

Harvard's policy seems to be that students who miss two consecutive weeks of classes will be put on involuntary leave. That's unlikely to be effective at changing the culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m surprised there is a school who lets students miss 2 weeks of classes without a significant, valid, issue. But I’m old school and the LAC I went to took attendance and missing too many classes impacted your grade. Good for Harvard, I guess.

Some schools only care about grades. I'd argue that attendance and participation grades are a boost to weak students. I a kid can skip class and do well on papers and the exams, then why not do something productive with their time

I doubt a kid skipping class is doing something productive.

I was working. As a senior, I managed a full time job and a full course load.

[Anonymous]

Actual link: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/12/4/fas-leaves-of-absence-entrepreneurs-athletes/

This is for optics and a few egotistical professors who like having a crowd. Students watched recorded lectures decades ago.

Faculty is jealous that the school admits hard working go-getters who don't have time to sit in a hall with 300 students to hear something they already have on YouTube.

The policy says that class is 3hd lecture and 9hr homework. Missing 2 weeks of class doesn't mean missing homework. If there was actually an academic problem, it would show up in grades, and the kids would be on leave for a academic probation, not for hurting admin's feelings.

At top worldwide Universities, as long as you pass your final exam/paper, you can do whatever you want all semester. Student aren't children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid at another Ivy. Friends from HS that are at Harvard, “are never there”. Skiing now (break), or in Florida a lot on the fall or traveling to London. It’s definitely a thing. Most unintellectual experience of all the kids who went Ivy.

Weird.

It's almost like a school that caters to the ultra wealthy is full of ultra wealthy students who don't care about school