Usnews & public perception within state

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m not entirely sure what you are asking OP.

Is it this? I’m in VA, and there is a perception here that the current USNWR ranking underrate WM, because they stopped considering the places WM shines, like small classes for a public and undergrad teaching. And that outside of CS/engineering it should rank above VT. WM kids entering stats are almost identical to UVA’s and much higher than VTs, and kids that can easily get into VT Arts and Sciences often cannot get into WM. Really, WM should be evaluated as a LAC because who they are is a mismatch with the ranking criteria. But their law school and a couple other things prevent this.

Also that *for arts & sciences* JMU and VT are close to being peers and kid preference and specific course of study place a big role in a kid deciding which to choose. But, they aren’t ranked against each other at all in USNWR because VT is “national” under USNWR and JMU is “regional”.

So, in general, USNWR does kind of a hatchet job on the top 4-5 VA public colleges because kids consider WM and UVA side by side or VT and JMU, but USNWR ranking are out of whack with what’s happening on the ground.

This is what I meant and botched horribly haha! It’s interesting to hear local in-state kids preferences versus us news rankings or oos kids and how they vary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m not entirely sure what you are asking OP.

Is it this? I’m in VA, and there is a perception here that the current USNWR ranking underrate WM, because they stopped considering the places WM shines, like small classes for a public and undergrad teaching. And that outside of CS/engineering it should rank above VT. WM kids entering stats are almost identical to UVA’s and much higher than VTs, and kids that can easily get into VT Arts and Sciences often cannot get into WM. Really, WM should be evaluated as a LAC because who they are is a mismatch with the ranking criteria. But their law school and a couple other things prevent this.

Also that *for arts & sciences* JMU and VT are close to being peers and kid preference and specific course of study place a big role in a kid deciding which to choose. But, they aren’t ranked against each other at all in USNWR because VT is “national” under USNWR and JMU is “regional”.

So, in general, USNWR does kind of a hatchet job on the top 4-5 VA public colleges because kids consider WM and UVA side by side or VT and JMU, but USNWR ranking are out of whack with what’s happening on the ground.

Agree with everything said here.

JMU is no longer a regional university, though. It is not in the national category and their being ranked below GMU is another example of a huge mismatch between perception/reputation/reality and their methodology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not entirely sure what you are asking OP.

Is it this? I’m in VA, and there is a perception here that the current USNWR ranking underrate WM, because they stopped considering the places WM shines, like small classes for a public and undergrad teaching. And that outside of CS/engineering it should rank above VT. WM kids entering stats are almost identical to UVA’s and much higher than VTs, and kids that can easily get into VT Arts and Sciences often cannot get into WM. Really, WM should be evaluated as a LAC because who they are is a mismatch with the ranking criteria. But their law school and a couple other things prevent this.

Also that *for arts & sciences* JMU and VT are close to being peers and kid preference and specific course of study place a big role in a kid deciding which to choose. But, they aren’t ranked against each other at all in USNWR because VT is “national” under USNWR and JMU is “regional”.

So, in general, USNWR does kind of a hatchet job on the top 4-5 VA public colleges because kids consider WM and UVA side by side or VT and JMU, but USNWR ranking are out of whack with what’s happening on the ground.

Agree with everything said here.

JMU is no longer a regional university, though. It is not in the national category and their being ranked below GMU is another example of a huge mismatch between perception/reputation/reality and their methodology.

It is *now* in the national category

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not entirely sure what you are asking OP.

Is it this? I’m in VA, and there is a perception here that the current USNWR ranking underrate WM, because they stopped considering the places WM shines, like small classes for a public and undergrad teaching. And that outside of CS/engineering it should rank above VT. WM kids entering stats are almost identical to UVA’s and much higher than VTs, and kids that can easily get into VT Arts and Sciences often cannot get into WM. Really, WM should be evaluated as a LAC because who they are is a mismatch with the ranking criteria. But their law school and a couple other things prevent this.

Also that *for arts & sciences* JMU and VT are close to being peers and kid preference and specific course of study place a big role in a kid deciding which to choose. But, they aren’t ranked against each other at all in USNWR because VT is “national” under USNWR and JMU is “regional”.

So, in general, USNWR does kind of a hatchet job on the top 4-5 VA public colleges because kids consider WM and UVA side by side or VT and JMU, but USNWR ranking are out of whack with what’s happening on the ground.

Agree with everything said here.

JMU is no longer a regional university, though. It is not in the national category and their being ranked below GMU is another example of a huge mismatch between perception/reputation/reality and their methodology.

But how much of a factor is location in the in state VA perception of JMU being ranked higher than GMU?

IMO, GMU academic reputation seems better than JMU, but of course, most of the educated live in NoVa, and their kids don't want to go to a school that's 15 miles away. But, GMU, being close to DC, has way more opportunities than JMU.

[Anonymous]

CM drop - and VT’s equivalent rise - is because the 2023 USN rankings changed significantly

The 2023 rankings emphasize graduate salaries, first-generation student enrollment and graduation and faculty research productivity, while no longer incorporating alumni giving rate, class size, the high school class standing of new entrants, the proportion of graduates with debt and the proportion of faculty with terminal degrees.

Those changes reflect general concerns about the cost v benefit of education and the professionalization of college.

But I don’t think anyone who is getting a LA degree in Germanic languages is going to pick VT over WM because VT is ranked higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not entirely sure what you are asking OP.

Is it this? I’m in VA, and there is a perception here that the current USNWR ranking underrate WM, because they stopped considering the places WM shines, like small classes for a public and undergrad teaching. And that outside of CS/engineering it should rank above VT. WM kids entering stats are almost identical to UVA’s and much higher than VTs, and kids that can easily get into VT Arts and Sciences often cannot get into WM. Really, WM should be evaluated as a LAC because who they are is a mismatch with the ranking criteria. But their law school and a couple other things prevent this.

Also that *for arts & sciences* JMU and VT are close to being peers and kid preference and specific course of study place a big role in a kid deciding which to choose. But, they aren’t ranked against each other at all in USNWR because VT is “national” under USNWR and JMU is “regional”.

So, in general, USNWR does kind of a hatchet job on the top 4-5 VA public colleges because kids consider WM and UVA side by side or VT and JMU, but USNWR ranking are out of whack with what’s happening on the ground.

Agree with everything said here.

JMU is no longer a regional university, though. It is not in the national category and their being ranked below GMU is another example of a huge mismatch between perception/reputation/reality and their methodology.

Your JMU/GMU example (not in VA) was one that prompted me to start this. I had inkling of this but wasn’t sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not entirely sure what you are asking OP.

Is it this? I’m in VA, and there is a perception here that the current USNWR ranking underrate WM, because they stopped considering the places WM shines, like small classes for a public and undergrad teaching. And that outside of CS/engineering it should rank above VT. WM kids entering stats are almost identical to UVA’s and much higher than VTs, and kids that can easily get into VT Arts and Sciences often cannot get into WM. Really, WM should be evaluated as a LAC because who they are is a mismatch with the ranking criteria. But their law school and a couple other things prevent this.

Also that *for arts & sciences* JMU and VT are close to being peers and kid preference and specific course of study place a big role in a kid deciding which to choose. But, they aren’t ranked against each other at all in USNWR because VT is “national” under USNWR and JMU is “regional”.

So, in general, USNWR does kind of a hatchet job on the top 4-5 VA public colleges because kids consider WM and UVA side by side or VT and JMU, but USNWR ranking are out of whack with what’s happening on the ground.

Agree with everything said here.

JMU is no longer a regional university, though. It is not in the national category and their being ranked below GMU is another example of a huge mismatch between perception/reputation/reality and their methodology.

But how much of a factor is location in the in state VA perception of JMU being ranked higher than GMU?

IMO, GMU academic reputation seems better than JMU, but of course, most of the educated live in NoVa, and their kids don't want to go to a school that's 15 miles away. But, GMU, being close to DC, has way more opportunities than JMU.

This is what I was getting at. A lot of kids undervalue UNC and NCSU as it’s too close to home also if you live nearby and they are clear top 2 publics being very close geographically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not entirely sure what you are asking OP.

Is it this? I’m in VA, and there is a perception here that the current USNWR ranking underrate WM, because they stopped considering the places WM shines, like small classes for a public and undergrad teaching. And that outside of CS/engineering it should rank above VT. WM kids entering stats are almost identical to UVA’s and much higher than VTs, and kids that can easily get into VT Arts and Sciences often cannot get into WM. Really, WM should be evaluated as a LAC because who they are is a mismatch with the ranking criteria. But their law school and a couple other things prevent this.

Also that *for arts & sciences* JMU and VT are close to being peers and kid preference and specific course of study place a big role in a kid deciding which to choose. But, they aren’t ranked against each other at all in USNWR because VT is “national” under USNWR and JMU is “regional”.

So, in general, USNWR does kind of a hatchet job on the top 4-5 VA public colleges because kids consider WM and UVA side by side or VT and JMU, but USNWR ranking are out of whack with what’s happening on the ground.

Agree with everything said here.

JMU is no longer a regional university, though. It is not in the national category and their being ranked below GMU is another example of a huge mismatch between perception/reputation/reality and their methodology.

Your JMU/GMU example (not in VA) was one that prompted me to start this. I had inkling of this but wasn’t sure.

Yes. I think this is because JMU is very often the second choice for people who didn't get into VTech, so their student body is elevated compared to places like GMU or ODU or CNU whose students were potentially rejected from JMU level places in addition to everywhere above it in reputation. JMU is one level in the food chain above.

I think for people applying to JMU their in-state choice list is probably something like:
- UVA (maybe applying just because or not applying at all)
- VTech (probably also peers like penn state)
- JMU
- Everywhere else

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not entirely sure what you are asking OP.

Is it this? I’m in VA, and there is a perception here that the current USNWR ranking underrate WM, because they stopped considering the places WM shines, like small classes for a public and undergrad teaching. And that outside of CS/engineering it should rank above VT. WM kids entering stats are almost identical to UVA’s and much higher than VTs, and kids that can easily get into VT Arts and Sciences often cannot get into WM. Really, WM should be evaluated as a LAC because who they are is a mismatch with the ranking criteria. But their law school and a couple other things prevent this.

Also that *for arts & sciences* JMU and VT are close to being peers and kid preference and specific course of study place a big role in a kid deciding which to choose. But, they aren’t ranked against each other at all in USNWR because VT is “national” under USNWR and JMU is “regional”.

So, in general, USNWR does kind of a hatchet job on the top 4-5 VA public colleges because kids consider WM and UVA side by side or VT and JMU, but USNWR ranking are out of whack with what’s happening on the ground.

Agree with everything said here.

JMU is no longer a regional university, though. It is not in the national category and their being ranked below GMU is another example of a huge mismatch between perception/reputation/reality and their methodology.

Your JMU/GMU example (not in VA) was one that prompted me to start this. I had inkling of this but wasn’t sure.

Yes. I think this is because JMU is very often the second choice for people who didn't get into VTech, so their student body is elevated compared to places like GMU or ODU or CNU whose students were potentially rejected from JMU level places in addition to everywhere above it in reputation. JMU is one level in the food chain above.

I think for people applying to JMU their in-state choice list is probably something like:
- UVA (maybe applying just because or not applying at all)
- VTech (probably also peers like penn state)
- JMU
- Everywhere else

I agree that this could potentially be because of GMU's location but I think JMU also has a reputation as being a "nicer" school (nicer facilities/more money, etc.) or that it's up-and-coming and getting more popular/harder to get in (which I think is at least a little bit true).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not entirely sure what you are asking OP.

Is it this? I’m in VA, and there is a perception here that the current USNWR ranking underrate WM, because they stopped considering the places WM shines, like small classes for a public and undergrad teaching. And that outside of CS/engineering it should rank above VT. WM kids entering stats are almost identical to UVA’s and much higher than VTs, and kids that can easily get into VT Arts and Sciences often cannot get into WM. Really, WM should be evaluated as a LAC because who they are is a mismatch with the ranking criteria. But their law school and a couple other things prevent this.

Also that *for arts & sciences* JMU and VT are close to being peers and kid preference and specific course of study place a big role in a kid deciding which to choose. But, they aren’t ranked against each other at all in USNWR because VT is “national” under USNWR and JMU is “regional”.

So, in general, USNWR does kind of a hatchet job on the top 4-5 VA public colleges because kids consider WM and UVA side by side or VT and JMU, but USNWR ranking are out of whack with what’s happening on the ground.

Agree with everything said here.

JMU is no longer a regional university, though. It is not in the national category and their being ranked below GMU is another example of a huge mismatch between perception/reputation/reality and their methodology.

Your JMU/GMU example (not in VA) was one that prompted me to start this. I had inkling of this but wasn’t sure.

It’s a silly example. No kids’ final two choices are JMU and GMU and they choose GMU because it was ranked higher this year for the first time in 40 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not entirely sure what you are asking OP.

Is it this? I’m in VA, and there is a perception here that the current USNWR ranking underrate WM, because they stopped considering the places WM shines, like small classes for a public and undergrad teaching. And that outside of CS/engineering it should rank above VT. WM kids entering stats are almost identical to UVA’s and much higher than VTs, and kids that can easily get into VT Arts and Sciences often cannot get into WM. Really, WM should be evaluated as a LAC because who they are is a mismatch with the ranking criteria. But their law school and a couple other things prevent this.

Also that *for arts & sciences* JMU and VT are close to being peers and kid preference and specific course of study place a big role in a kid deciding which to choose. But, they aren’t ranked against each other at all in USNWR because VT is “national” under USNWR and JMU is “regional”.

So, in general, USNWR does kind of a hatchet job on the top 4-5 VA public colleges because kids consider WM and UVA side by side or VT and JMU, but USNWR ranking are out of whack with what’s happening on the ground.

Agree with everything said here.

JMU is no longer a regional university, though. It is not in the national category and their being ranked below GMU is another example of a huge mismatch between perception/reputation/reality and their methodology.

Your JMU/GMU example (not in VA) was one that prompted me to start this. I had inkling of this but wasn’t sure.

It’s a silly example. No kids’ final two choices are JMU and GMU and they choose GMU because it was ranked higher this year for the first time in 40 years.

That's exactly what PP was saying. This is another example of a mismatch between public perception/school reputation and US News.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not entirely sure what you are asking OP.

Is it this? I’m in VA, and there is a perception here that the current USNWR ranking underrate WM, because they stopped considering the places WM shines, like small classes for a public and undergrad teaching. And that outside of CS/engineering it should rank above VT. WM kids entering stats are almost identical to UVA’s and much higher than VTs, and kids that can easily get into VT Arts and Sciences often cannot get into WM. Really, WM should be evaluated as a LAC because who they are is a mismatch with the ranking criteria. But their law school and a couple other things prevent this.

Also that *for arts & sciences* JMU and VT are close to being peers and kid preference and specific course of study place a big role in a kid deciding which to choose. But, they aren’t ranked against each other at all in USNWR because VT is “national” under USNWR and JMU is “regional”.

So, in general, USNWR does kind of a hatchet job on the top 4-5 VA public colleges because kids consider WM and UVA side by side or VT and JMU, but USNWR ranking are out of whack with what’s happening on the ground.

Agree with everything said here.

JMU is no longer a regional university, though. It is not in the national category and their being ranked below GMU is another example of a huge mismatch between perception/reputation/reality and their methodology.

Your JMU/GMU example (not in VA) was one that prompted me to start this. I had inkling of this but wasn’t sure.

It’s a silly example. No kids’ final two choices are JMU and GMU and they choose GMU because it was ranked higher this year for the first time in 40 years.

That's exactly what PP was saying. This is another example of a mismatch between public perception/school reputation and US News.

You should have written post for me, I really ran it into the ditch. I personally wasn’t making any comments on VA schools, don’t know them, was just curious how widespread the mismatch between public perception/school reputation and US News was in various states.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:CM drop - and VT’s equivalent rise - is because the 2023 USN rankings changed significantly

The 2023 rankings emphasize graduate salaries, first-generation student enrollment and graduation and faculty research productivity, while no longer incorporating alumni giving rate, class size, the high school class standing of new entrants, the proportion of graduates with debt and the proportion of faculty with terminal degrees.

Those changes reflect general concerns about the cost v benefit of education and the professionalization of college.

But I don’t think anyone who is getting a LA degree in Germanic languages is going to pick VT over WM because VT is ranked higher.

NP. Our DC - not majoring in “Germanic languages,” but definitely in the humanities - did indeed pick VT over W&M. The rankings had nothing to do with it. It was entirely personal preference and fit - something so many of you discount. For us, it was the #1 criteria. DC is thriving at VT.

[Anonymous]

I kind of get what you’re saying but I guess it isn’t clear to me why some deviation from the rankings would be notable. There are a lot of schools in most states, people tend to have some sense of which are better but as you go down the list it is harder to really know.

For example, I grew up in Indiana. Obviously everyone there recognizes Notre Dame is best, and then most people would put Purdue and IU but which goes above the other would depend on their bias (there is a big divide in the state). After that probably Ball State, but after that it would be really hard to have any sense of which school may be “better” or “worse.” This analysis of course ignores any LACs which are hard to compare to big universities.

[Anonymous]

I think a lot of kids these days want a vibrant D1 football school.

This is hard for this forum to accept but this is exactly what kids want. JMU has a pretty good football team these days. It is clearly rising in desirability.

My kids go to a very good public in PA. Few kids are applying to smaller schools. Most of the time it is to play a sport. Or the kids are very smart and are headed to an IVY or an IVY quality school.