Pre-calc does not prepare kids for calculus!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was at BTSN tonight and learned that students who take on grade level pre-calculus (so not honors) will not be prepared to take Calculus AB the next year. This greatly concerns me. I understood that dropping out of the honors track wouldn't prepare my child for BC, but I thought it would prepare her for AB.

All of her friends scared her and told her that honors would be so much work so she dropped down, but now I am really upset for letting her. How is it that this course was not designed to prepare students? SHould I force her back in the honors track even though she doesn't want to (her math is strong, but she does not "like" it)? I'm a very upset parent tonight!

Regular precalculus leads to Calculus with Applications. Some students then take AP AB Calculus. It’s a slower pace, which means that any particular course doesn’t cover as much material as the Honors version. I’m not sure why this is a surprise. I’m also not sure why you are so anxious about your kid getting to Calculus in high school, if they were already uncertain enough about math to drop to regular.

This isn’t a crisis.

[Anonymous]

It prepares you for calculus with applications, which is the on-level version of calculus. This does not seems surprising. Of course you need the honors class to take AP.

[Anonymous]

From Princeton Review:

“AP Calculus AB vs. BC
AP Calculus is divided into two classes: AB and BC. The College Board says Calculus AB is the equivalent of a semester of college calculus and BC is the equivalent of a year of college calculus. In truth, AB calculus covers closer to three quarters of a year of college calculus. The main difference between the two is that BC Calculus tests some more theoretical aspects of calculus, and it covers a few additional topics.”

Bottom Line- Pre-Cal should prepare kids for AB Calc, in fact MCPS list Pre-Cal as the Prerequisite. If it’s not that seems like a failure of expectation and curriculum setting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From Princeton Review:

“AP Calculus AB vs. BC
AP Calculus is divided into two classes: AB and BC. The College Board says Calculus AB is the equivalent of a semester of college calculus and BC is the equivalent of a year of college calculus. In truth, AB calculus covers closer to three quarters of a year of college calculus. The main difference between the two is that BC Calculus tests some more theoretical aspects of calculus, and it covers a few additional topics.”

Bottom Line- Pre-Cal should prepare kids for AB Calc, in fact MCPS list Pre-Cal as the Prerequisite. If it’s not that seems like a failure of expectation and curriculum setting.

Maybe but at our school those who take Precalculus do not take AP Calc. They take Calc with applications.

[Anonymous]

So are kids who take grade level pre-calc not prepared to take calculus 1 in college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was at BTSN tonight and learned that students who take on grade level pre-calculus (so not honors) will not be prepared to take Calculus AB the next year. This greatly concerns me. I understood that dropping out of the honors track wouldn't prepare my child for BC, but I thought it would prepare her for AB.

All of her friends scared her and told her that honors would be so much work so she dropped down, but now I am really upset for letting her. How is it that this course was not designed to prepare students? SHould I force her back in the honors track even though she doesn't want to (her math is strong, but she does not "like" it)? I'm a very upset parent tonight!

Regular precalculus leads to Calculus with Applications. Some students then take AP AB Calculus. It’s a slower pace, which means that any particular course doesn’t cover as much material as the Honors version. I’m not sure why this is a surprise. I’m also not sure why you are so anxious about your kid getting to Calculus in high school, if they were already uncertain enough about math to drop to regular.

This isn’t a crisis.

+1. Make your kid switch if you feel so strongly about this OP, but your kid is approaching adulthood and is strongly signaling she doesn’t want to do this. The school year just started-this is not a big deal. But you seem confused-pre calc does prepare a student for calculus with applications, but not AP calculus which is a more rigorous course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was at BTSN tonight and learned that students who take on grade level pre-calculus (so not honors) will not be prepared to take Calculus AB the next year. This greatly concerns me. I understood that dropping out of the honors track wouldn't prepare my child for BC, but I thought it would prepare her for AB.

All of her friends scared her and told her that honors would be so much work so she dropped down, but now I am really upset for letting her. How is it that this course was not designed to prepare students? SHould I force her back in the honors track even though she doesn't want to (her math is strong, but she does not "like" it)? I'm a very upset parent tonight!

Why is no one surprised that communication is subpar in guiding students and families to the various options students have in math and in other areas. Sigh.

[Anonymous]

My kid took on level Algebra II as a freshman and on level pre-calc as a Sophomore. This resulted from a horrible experience with online middle school Algebra I and Geometry during covid.Their on-level pre-calc teacher recommended that they jump to AP Calc. I have a tutor lined up and my fingers crossed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It prepares you for calculus with applications, which is the on-level version of calculus. This does not seems surprising. Of course you need the honors class to take AP.

this might be obvious to you, but honestly, it's not that clear if someone is not fully in the weeds. i am not the OP, btw, my oldest is in middle school, but i read stuff like this in order to be ready.

[Anonymous]

Here's the WJ Math department pathways document, I hope it helps:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11GGLUYr57LLlSg-oqN4kS_okPqtjUHo2/view

[Anonymous]

I truly do not understand why people on this board react with nastiness and hostility when someone merely poses a request for clarification and insight from others with more or different experiences.

OP: Perhaps the teacher was speaking shorthand or perhaps she was just describing her observations of students' paths in the past. Of course grade level pre-calc leads to calc, at least in my kids' HS -- it's just that it leads to Calc with Applications, a non-AP class, not AP Calc. I suppose there's a chance your HS doesn't offer Calc with Applications. My suggestion is to try to find your school's registration card and see what is typically offered, and then consider whether there is a reason to prefer that she be in a position to take AP Calc AB rather than that, non-AP class. And reach out to your kid's counselor if you need further clarification.

BTW, at our HS at least, I've never heard of anyone refer to Calculus 1 -- it's either Calc with Applications or AP Calc (AB or BC).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I truly do not understand why people on this board react with nastiness and hostility when someone merely poses a request for clarification and insight from others with more or different experiences.

OP: Perhaps the teacher was speaking shorthand or perhaps she was just describing her observations of students' paths in the past. Of course grade level pre-calc leads to calc, at least in my kids' HS -- it's just that it leads to Calc with Applications, a non-AP class, not AP Calc. I suppose there's a chance your HS doesn't offer Calc with Applications. My suggestion is to try to find your school's registration card and see what is typically offered, and then consider whether there is a reason to prefer that she be in a position to take AP Calc AB rather than that, non-AP class. And reach out to your kid's counselor if you need further clarification.

BTW, at our HS at least, I've never heard of anyone refer to Calculus 1 -- it's either Calc with Applications or AP Calc (AB or BC).

The bolded isn't what happened. OP doesn't want "clarification" she wants to rant and rave. She deserves everything she got.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I truly do not understand why people on this board react with nastiness and hostility when someone merely poses a request for clarification and insight from others with more or different experiences.

OP: Perhaps the teacher was speaking shorthand or perhaps she was just describing her observations of students' paths in the past. Of course grade level pre-calc leads to calc, at least in my kids' HS -- it's just that it leads to Calc with Applications, a non-AP class, not AP Calc. I suppose there's a chance your HS doesn't offer Calc with Applications. My suggestion is to try to find your school's registration card and see what is typically offered, and then consider whether there is a reason to prefer that she be in a position to take AP Calc AB rather than that, non-AP class. And reach out to your kid's counselor if you need further clarification.

BTW, at our HS at least, I've never heard of anyone refer to Calculus 1 -- it's either Calc with Applications or AP Calc (AB or BC).

Calc 1 is AB Calc. And the fact that everyone in this thread is not in agreement with OP is crazy. Calculus with Applications at the college level is meant for students whose majors do not required they go beyond Calc 1 and thus doesn’t necessarily go as deep in preparation for Calc 2. It has nothing to do with the fact that Pre-Cal should absolutely prepare a student to be ready to take on Calculus 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's the WJ Math department pathways document, I hope it helps:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11GGLUYr57LLlSg-oqN4kS_okPqtjUHo2/view

This document proves that Pre-Cal should prepare a student for Calc AB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand how you can be surprised by this.

I'm normally pretty on top of things- but definitely not a pushy parent. But why does a class that is called pre-calculus not lead to calculus? How was I to know that?

It doesn’t lead to calculus it doesn’t lead to AP which is above honors. MCPS has honors level calculus.

I mean it does lead to calculus just not AP.

Why not? What’s the difference? Calculus is calculus.

For a planned STEM major applying to college, AP Calc BC is better than AP calc AB is better than Honors Calc is better than ordinary Calculus. For a non-STEM major it might not weigh as much.

That said, Top-N colleges all want "most rigorous" HS coursework available at that HS in all subjects.