Ford Pulls Back Its Electric Vehicle Push

[Anonymous]

Here you go.
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.api.org/-/media/files/misc/2024/2024-06-13-final-ld-petition-for-review

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They pulled back because the sales are down. It's as simple as that.

They started ramping up because the Biden administration made it a de facto mandate to see a certain amount of EVs as new vehicles. They are currently being sued over the mandate and the car manufacturers are a part of the suit. It's unrealistic to have a mandate when there is still so little infrastructure to support the EVs.

Sales are not down. Sales are up but are going up at a slower rate. Most, if not all EV manufactures in the US saw a growth in sales except Tesla. But because Tesla was over half the market, when it went down it made the entire market look bad. Really only Tesla has an issue. As another poster mentioned, the Korean manufacturers are selling EVs like hotcakes. BMW has seen more growth in EV sales than in ICE sales.

Part of Ford's problem is that it seems to have misunderstood the market. They keep producing huge monstrosities. Even the Mustangs is an SUV now. Demand appears to be for smaller, cheaper EVs

Sales were definitely down in 2023 or not as projected. You can't really compare the cheaper more affordable versions of KIA or Hyundai to Ford's monstrosity as you called it. The EV sales are projected to be up in part due to the mandate over the next several years. We will see if the court upholds the current mandate but I simply don't see how the current infrastructure supports it.

Sales were not down in 2023. Provide a cite or stop making stuff up. Hyundai actually accelerated the start up of their new EV factory in Georgia by 3 months because of demand.

Also the automakers, including Ford and the trade association for the entire industry, are “in the litigation” over the standards defending EPA and the standards, not attacking them.

You couldn't be more wrong. I work closely with AFPM and they along with corn growers, the American Petroleum Institute, and a few others are MOST definitely suing the administration over the mandate. I literally work on it.

I’m not surprised someone working with AFPM API and the corn growers is incapable of basic reading comprehension but I never said there wasn’t litigation over the standards.

I said there was litigation and the automakers are defending the standards. If you think that’s wrong you might want to reconsider.


https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/automakers-back-key-parts-new-us-epa-vehicle-emissions-rules-2024-05-20/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They pulled back because the sales are down. It's as simple as that.

They started ramping up because the Biden administration made it a de facto mandate to see a certain amount of EVs as new vehicles. They are currently being sued over the mandate and the car manufacturers are a part of the suit. It's unrealistic to have a mandate when there is still so little infrastructure to support the EVs.

Sales are not down. Sales are up but are going up at a slower rate. Most, if not all EV manufactures in the US saw a growth in sales except Tesla. But because Tesla was over half the market, when it went down it made the entire market look bad. Really only Tesla has an issue. As another poster mentioned, the Korean manufacturers are selling EVs like hotcakes. BMW has seen more growth in EV sales than in ICE sales.

Part of Ford's problem is that it seems to have misunderstood the market. They keep producing huge monstrosities. Even the Mustangs is an SUV now. Demand appears to be for smaller, cheaper EVs

Sales were definitely down in 2023 or not as projected. You can't really compare the cheaper more affordable versions of KIA or Hyundai to Ford's monstrosity as you called it. The EV sales are projected to be up in part due to the mandate over the next several years. We will see if the court upholds the current mandate but I simply don't see how the current infrastructure supports it.

Sales were not down in 2023. Provide a cite or stop making stuff up. Hyundai actually accelerated the start up of their new EV factory in Georgia by 3 months because of demand.

Also the automakers, including Ford and the trade association for the entire industry, are “in the litigation” over the standards defending EPA and the standards, not attacking them.

You couldn't be more wrong. I work closely with AFPM and they along with corn growers, the American Petroleum Institute, and a few others are MOST definitely suing the administration over the mandate. I literally work on it.

I’m not surprised someone working with AFPM API and the corn growers is incapable of basic reading comprehension but I never said there wasn’t litigation over the standards.

I said there was litigation and the automakers are defending the standards. If you think that’s wrong you might want to reconsider.


https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/automakers-back-key-parts-new-us-epa-vehicle-emissions-rules-2024-05-20/

Careful, before you start calling me dumb. You were responding to my post where I clearly said they were suing over the mandate. So who is incapable of reading now?

Also, someone who resorts to ad hominem attacks to try to prove a non-existing point is by definition not that smart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They pulled back because the sales are down. It's as simple as that.

They started ramping up because the Biden administration made it a de facto mandate to see a certain amount of EVs as new vehicles. They are currently being sued over the mandate and the car manufacturers are a part of the suit. It's unrealistic to have a mandate when there is still so little infrastructure to support the EVs.

Sales are not down. Sales are up but are going up at a slower rate. Most, if not all EV manufactures in the US saw a growth in sales except Tesla. But because Tesla was over half the market, when it went down it made the entire market look bad. Really only Tesla has an issue. As another poster mentioned, the Korean manufacturers are selling EVs like hotcakes. BMW has seen more growth in EV sales than in ICE sales.

Part of Ford's problem is that it seems to have misunderstood the market. They keep producing huge monstrosities. Even the Mustangs is an SUV now. Demand appears to be for smaller, cheaper EVs

Sales were definitely down in 2023 or not as projected. You can't really compare the cheaper more affordable versions of KIA or Hyundai to Ford's monstrosity as you called it. The EV sales are projected to be up in part due to the mandate over the next several years. We will see if the court upholds the current mandate but I simply don't see how the current infrastructure supports it.

Sales were not down in 2023. Provide a cite or stop making stuff up. Hyundai actually accelerated the start up of their new EV factory in Georgia by 3 months because of demand.

Also the automakers, including Ford and the trade association for the entire industry, are “in the litigation” over the standards defending EPA and the standards, not attacking them.

You couldn't be more wrong. I work closely with AFPM and they along with corn growers, the American Petroleum Institute, and a few others are MOST definitely suing the administration over the mandate. I literally work on it.

I’m not surprised someone working with AFPM API and the corn growers is incapable of basic reading comprehension but I never said there wasn’t litigation over the standards.

I said there was litigation and the automakers are defending the standards. If you think that’s wrong you might want to reconsider.


https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/automakers-back-key-parts-new-us-epa-vehicle-emissions-rules-2024-05-20/

Careful, before you start calling me dumb. You were responding to my post where I clearly said they were suing over the mandate. So who is incapable of reading now?

Also, someone who resorts to ad hominem attacks to try to prove a non-existing point is by definition not that smart.

Literally the post said “the car manufacturers are a part of the suit”

and then my response said “ the automakers, including Ford and the trade association for the entire industry, are ‘in the litigation’ over the standards defending EPA and the standards, not attacking them”

And then you said “You couldn't be more wrong.”

And now you think you’ve proven your point?

Frankly I didn’t mean to insult you but just AFPM API and the corn growers. 😂

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They pulled back because the sales are down. It's as simple as that.

They started ramping up because the Biden administration made it a de facto mandate to see a certain amount of EVs as new vehicles. They are currently being sued over the mandate and the car manufacturers are a part of the suit. It's unrealistic to have a mandate when there is still so little infrastructure to support the EVs.

Sales are not down. Sales are up but are going up at a slower rate. Most, if not all EV manufactures in the US saw a growth in sales except Tesla. But because Tesla was over half the market, when it went down it made the entire market look bad. Really only Tesla has an issue. As another poster mentioned, the Korean manufacturers are selling EVs like hotcakes. BMW has seen more growth in EV sales than in ICE sales.

Part of Ford's problem is that it seems to have misunderstood the market. They keep producing huge monstrosities. Even the Mustangs is an SUV now. Demand appears to be for smaller, cheaper EVs

Sales were definitely down in 2023 or not as projected. You can't really compare the cheaper more affordable versions of KIA or Hyundai to Ford's monstrosity as you called it. The EV sales are projected to be up in part due to the mandate over the next several years. We will see if the court upholds the current mandate but I simply don't see how the current infrastructure supports it.

Sales were not down in 2023. Provide a cite or stop making stuff up. Hyundai actually accelerated the start up of their new EV factory in Georgia by 3 months because of demand.

Also the automakers, including Ford and the trade association for the entire industry, are “in the litigation” over the standards defending EPA and the standards, not attacking them.

You couldn't be more wrong. I work closely with AFPM and they along with corn growers, the American Petroleum Institute, and a few others are MOST definitely suing the administration over the mandate. I literally work on it.

I’m not surprised someone working with AFPM API and the corn growers is incapable of basic reading comprehension but I never said there wasn’t litigation over the standards.

I said there was litigation and the automakers are defending the standards. If you think that’s wrong you might want to reconsider.


https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/automakers-back-key-parts-new-us-epa-vehicle-emissions-rules-2024-05-20/

Careful, before you start calling me dumb. You were responding to my post where I clearly said they were suing over the mandate. So who is incapable of reading now?

Also, someone who resorts to ad hominem attacks to try to prove a non-existing point is by definition not that smart.

Literally the post said “the car manufacturers are a part of the suit”

and then my response said “ the automakers, including Ford and the trade association for the entire industry, are ‘in the litigation’ over the standards defending EPA and the standards, not attacking them”

And then you said “You couldn't be more wrong.”

And now you think you’ve proven your point?

Frankly I didn’t mean to insult you but just AFPM API and the corn growers. 😂

This is my first post:


"They pulled back because the sales are down. It's as simple as that.

They started ramping up because the Biden administration made it a de facto mandate to see a certain amount of EVs as new vehicles. They are currently being sued over the mandate and the car manufacturers are a part of the suit. It's unrealistic to have a mandate when there is still so little infrastructure to support the EVs."

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They pulled back because the sales are down. It's as simple as that.

They started ramping up because the Biden administration made it a de facto mandate to see a certain amount of EVs as new vehicles. They are currently being sued over the mandate and the car manufacturers are a part of the suit. It's unrealistic to have a mandate when there is still so little infrastructure to support the EVs.

Sales are not down. Sales are up but are going up at a slower rate. Most, if not all EV manufactures in the US saw a growth in sales except Tesla. But because Tesla was over half the market, when it went down it made the entire market look bad. Really only Tesla has an issue. As another poster mentioned, the Korean manufacturers are selling EVs like hotcakes. BMW has seen more growth in EV sales than in ICE sales.

Part of Ford's problem is that it seems to have misunderstood the market. They keep producing huge monstrosities. Even the Mustangs is an SUV now. Demand appears to be for smaller, cheaper EVs

Sales were definitely down in 2023 or not as projected. You can't really compare the cheaper more affordable versions of KIA or Hyundai to Ford's monstrosity as you called it. The EV sales are projected to be up in part due to the mandate over the next several years. We will see if the court upholds the current mandate but I simply don't see how the current infrastructure supports it.

Sales were not down in 2023. Provide a cite or stop making stuff up. Hyundai actually accelerated the start up of their new EV factory in Georgia by 3 months because of demand.

Also the automakers, including Ford and the trade association for the entire industry, are “in the litigation” over the standards defending EPA and the standards, not attacking them.

You couldn't be more wrong. I work closely with AFPM and they along with corn growers, the American Petroleum Institute, and a few others are MOST definitely suing the administration over the mandate. I literally work on it.

I am struggling to see the connection of your response to my post. I didn't mention anything about a lawsuit. Whether there is or is not a lawsuit has nothing to do with the fact that EV sales are up, not down, as you claimed.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They pulled back because the sales are down. It's as simple as that.

They started ramping up because the Biden administration made it a de facto mandate to see a certain amount of EVs as new vehicles. They are currently being sued over the mandate and the car manufacturers are a part of the suit. It's unrealistic to have a mandate when there is still so little infrastructure to support the EVs.

Sales are not down. Sales are up but are going up at a slower rate. Most, if not all EV manufactures in the US saw a growth in sales except Tesla. But because Tesla was over half the market, when it went down it made the entire market look bad. Really only Tesla has an issue. As another poster mentioned, the Korean manufacturers are selling EVs like hotcakes. BMW has seen more growth in EV sales than in ICE sales.

Part of Ford's problem is that it seems to have misunderstood the market. They keep producing huge monstrosities. Even the Mustangs is an SUV now. Demand appears to be for smaller, cheaper EVs

Sales were definitely down in 2023 or not as projected. You can't really compare the cheaper more affordable versions of KIA or Hyundai to Ford's monstrosity as you called it. The EV sales are projected to be up in part due to the mandate over the next several years. We will see if the court upholds the current mandate but I simply don't see how the current infrastructure supports it.

Sales were not down in 2023. Provide a cite or stop making stuff up. Hyundai actually accelerated the start up of their new EV factory in Georgia by 3 months because of demand.

Also the automakers, including Ford and the trade association for the entire industry, are “in the litigation” over the standards defending EPA and the standards, not attacking them.

You couldn't be more wrong. I work closely with AFPM and they along with corn growers, the American Petroleum Institute, and a few others are MOST definitely suing the administration over the mandate. I literally work on it.

I am struggling to see the connection of your response to my post. I didn't mention anything about a lawsuit. Whether there is or is not a lawsuit has nothing to do with the fact that EV sales are up, not down, as you claimed.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-28/the-slowdown-in-us-electric-vehicle-sales-looks-more-like-a-blip

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They pulled back because the sales are down. It's as simple as that.

They started ramping up because the Biden administration made it a de facto mandate to see a certain amount of EVs as new vehicles. They are currently being sued over the mandate and the car manufacturers are a part of the suit. It's unrealistic to have a mandate when there is still so little infrastructure to support the EVs.

Sales are not down. Sales are up but are going up at a slower rate. Most, if not all EV manufactures in the US saw a growth in sales except Tesla. But because Tesla was over half the market, when it went down it made the entire market look bad. Really only Tesla has an issue. As another poster mentioned, the Korean manufacturers are selling EVs like hotcakes. BMW has seen more growth in EV sales than in ICE sales.

Part of Ford's problem is that it seems to have misunderstood the market. They keep producing huge monstrosities. Even the Mustangs is an SUV now. Demand appears to be for smaller, cheaper EVs

Sales were definitely down in 2023 or not as projected. You can't really compare the cheaper more affordable versions of KIA or Hyundai to Ford's monstrosity as you called it. The EV sales are projected to be up in part due to the mandate over the next several years. We will see if the court upholds the current mandate but I simply don't see how the current infrastructure supports it.

Sales were not down in 2023. Provide a cite or stop making stuff up. Hyundai actually accelerated the start up of their new EV factory in Georgia by 3 months because of demand.

Also the automakers, including Ford and the trade association for the entire industry, are “in the litigation” over the standards defending EPA and the standards, not attacking them.

You couldn't be more wrong. I work closely with AFPM and they along with corn growers, the American Petroleum Institute, and a few others are MOST definitely suing the administration over the mandate. I literally work on it.

I am struggling to see the connection of your response to my post. I didn't mention anything about a lawsuit. Whether there is or is not a lawsuit has nothing to do with the fact that EV sales are up, not down, as you claimed.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-28/the-slowdown-in-us-electric-vehicle-sales-looks-more-like-a-blip

You might have taken the time to explain the significance of your link. Given that the article says:

for most automakers, even the first quarter was a blockbuster. Six of the 10 biggest EV makers in the US saw sales grow at a scorching pace compared to a year ago — up anywhere from 56% at Hyundai-Kia to 86% at Ford. A sampling of April sales similarly came in hot.

Thank you for fully supporting my point, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Yes we all know that the people who make their money off by externalizing the cost of air pollution for extracting, refining and burning petroleum are against the new standards— that’s not noteworthy at all.

What is interesting is that the companies who make their money off selling cars aren’t suing EPA because they think the standards can be met without too much trouble.

[jsteele]

Here is the chart included in the article to which the PP linked. Here's the "drop" in sales that some posters are claiming has occurred:

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They pulled back because the sales are down. It's as simple as that.

They started ramping up because the Biden administration made it a de facto mandate to see a certain amount of EVs as new vehicles. They are currently being sued over the mandate and the car manufacturers are a part of the suit. It's unrealistic to have a mandate when there is still so little infrastructure to support the EVs.

Sales are not down. Sales are up but are going up at a slower rate. Most, if not all EV manufactures in the US saw a growth in sales except Tesla. But because Tesla was over half the market, when it went down it made the entire market look bad. Really only Tesla has an issue. As another poster mentioned, the Korean manufacturers are selling EVs like hotcakes. BMW has seen more growth in EV sales than in ICE sales.

Part of Ford's problem is that it seems to have misunderstood the market. They keep producing huge monstrosities. Even the Mustangs is an SUV now. Demand appears to be for smaller, cheaper EVs

Isnt that where they make most of their money and where the greatest demand is? On trucks and Explorers? They're expensive and sell well.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They pulled back because the sales are down. It's as simple as that.

They started ramping up because the Biden administration made it a de facto mandate to see a certain amount of EVs as new vehicles. They are currently being sued over the mandate and the car manufacturers are a part of the suit. It's unrealistic to have a mandate when there is still so little infrastructure to support the EVs.

Sales are not down. Sales are up but are going up at a slower rate. Most, if not all EV manufactures in the US saw a growth in sales except Tesla. But because Tesla was over half the market, when it went down it made the entire market look bad. Really only Tesla has an issue. As another poster mentioned, the Korean manufacturers are selling EVs like hotcakes. BMW has seen more growth in EV sales than in ICE sales.

Part of Ford's problem is that it seems to have misunderstood the market. They keep producing huge monstrosities. Even the Mustangs is an SUV now. Demand appears to be for smaller, cheaper EVs

Isnt that where they make most of their money and where the greatest demand is? On trucks and Explorers? They're expensive and sell well.

That has been true for ICE cars. However, I think at the moment the EV market is different. Hyundai has been outselling both Ford and GM with mostly smaller cars:

https://insideevs.com/news/730671/hyundai-motor-group-ev-sales/

[Anonymous]

https://twitter.com/weareyellowdot/status/1826299608357896311?s=46

Exxon/Mobil= API

[Anonymous]

I’d rather drive a hybrid. No need for charging, great mileage, and fossil fuels aren’t going anywhere soon. Electric vehicles are inconvenient, and they also contribute to global warming, just not directly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’d rather drive a hybrid. No need for charging, great mileage, and fossil fuels aren’t going anywhere soon. Electric vehicles are inconvenient, and they also contribute to global warming, just not directly.

Thing is a hybrid misses out on a lot of the advantages of an EV— not as fun to drive, still have all the maintenance of an ICE, etc. — but in return you never have to worry about range.

I actually think EVs are more convenient than gas cars most of the time because you never have to fill them up.

Road trips longer than their range where you don’t want to stop for 15 minutes are when they become inconvenient but for us that’s pretty rare.