Should we take WISC before reapplying for 3rd grade?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t say it wasn’t valuable for certain reasons. But seems like hyperbole to suggest exponential academic value when we are talking about elementary curriculum. It’s NOT a gifted program anymore. It’s a contrived track inadvertently created by people parent referring, prepping, and paying for outside testing to ensure they get the track. Of course some kids thrive surrounded by generally more motivated kids, but everyone ends up back in the same place with the same academic opportunities by MS and HS. IME, the outcomes aren’t exponentially better for the kids that did some extra social studies in 4th grade.

You didn’t say a lot of things. What you did say is that AAP has become meaningless. I suppose worth is individually determined by what one is expecting from the program.

In my response, I said nothing about what AAP means for outcomes in HS, nor did I make disparaging comments about peers who aren’t in AAP — those were your words. I said it wasn’t meaningless for my kids. So sure, I’ll move away from the phrase “exponentially more,” since you’re twisting it into something I never said. Once in AAP my kids were learning more than they (my kids) were learning beforehand and at a faster pace than before. They also were among a cohort with whom they formed deep friendships, which was a welcome change. Frankly, the social benefits and diminished feelings of “otherness” meant the most to me at the elementary ages and have had the biggest impact on their happiness in school and social-emotional well-being. These things matter to many parents and have real impacts on overall academic success.

Frankly, AAP has been great for my child. Honestly, one big part is the peer group. At least in his school, way less bullying and troublemakers in AAP. He made great friends. Also the opportunity for more critical thinking was great in addition to accelerated math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No offense, but this do-whatever-it-takes to bulldoze my kid’s way into AAP is exactly why AAP has become meaningless.
I’m sure your child is bright and will do well academically. They probably don’t need gifted services in ES; very few do. They can self elect into honors in MS and everything will be fine.

AAP wasn’t meaningless for my kids. They found deep peer connections and learned exponentially more and at a faster pace than they were learning before.

I’m glad your children learned “exponentially more” in elementary school. Presumably that means they went on to be “exponentially” more successful in HS than their pedestrian peers that took regular honors MS school and AP classes in HS?

If you want to get into early algebra so you can do geometry in 7th grade, then you would want to go that route.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To answer the OP's question... (without debating AAP itself!) Yes, absolutely. It definitely couldn't hurt, especially as it sounds like you are set on getting in. If the scores are lower, you just don't submit them. As another poster said, also retake the COGAT for free, which a lot of kids do. Request from your AART now, so it's on the calendar. It's a new application each year with a new appeal allowed each year, which is not clearly communicated. My daughter's test scores were VERY high, and she only got in for 3rd grade on appeal with work samples, so search for the work sample recs here and spend some real time on those between now and Dec deadline. You can talk to the AART and teacher and have them send home copies of the LIII work, which you can always redo/ add at home with additional time. If nothing else, you'll know what's being collected/ submitted and where your student might have gaps to fill.

OP here - I don't think we need to retake the COGAT, the scores on both NNAT and COGAT match up with what other people have posted their children got into AAP with. I really think it was the HOPE and I truly didn't understand the HOPE ratings based on feedback we've received from teachers in the past. All I can imagine is my child was new to the school and the HOPE was submitted so early that the teacher just didn't know the children well at all yet, which also meant that the work samples submitted from the school were pretty awful (the ones we submitted from home were better, but your'e right, I need to do some research into what's considered more acceptable).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer the OP's question... (without debating AAP itself!) Yes, absolutely. It definitely couldn't hurt, especially as it sounds like you are set on getting in. If the scores are lower, you just don't submit them. As another poster said, also retake the COGAT for free, which a lot of kids do. Request from your AART now, so it's on the calendar. It's a new application each year with a new appeal allowed each year, which is not clearly communicated. My daughter's test scores were VERY high, and she only got in for 3rd grade on appeal with work samples, so search for the work sample recs here and spend some real time on those between now and Dec deadline. You can talk to the AART and teacher and have them send home copies of the LIII work, which you can always redo/ add at home with additional time. If nothing else, you'll know what's being collected/ submitted and where your student might have gaps to fill.

OP here - I don't think we need to retake the COGAT, the scores on both NNAT and COGAT match up with what other people have posted their children got into AAP with. I really think it was the HOPE and I truly didn't understand the HOPE ratings based on feedback we've received from teachers in the past. All I can imagine is my child was new to the school and the HOPE was submitted so early that the teacher just didn't know the children well at all yet, which also meant that the work samples submitted from the school were pretty awful (the ones we submitted from home were better, but your'e right, I need to do some research into what's considered more acceptable).

What were iready scores? Was your child marked advanced in reading/math on the packet submitted by the school? You said earlier that scores were over the 132 threshold that used to mean something (it doesn’t mean as much anymore w all the test prepping, especially if you’re at a high SES school) but were the sub-scores all over 132? At our school, 132 is considered average.

You need better work samples and if there are areas of weakness in cogat, iready, and/or on Hope rating, you need samples to demonstrate that there is strength in those areas.

Your child didn’t get a bad hope rating and poor work samples bc they’re new to the school. The entire class is new to the teacher when the school year starts. My childrens’ 2nd grade teachers had no idea what kind of student they were just bc they were roaming the halls in K and 1. I agree, there are plenty of arguments to be made that the teachers don’t know the students and their work well enough by the time packets are due, but that applies to the entire class, not just students new to the school that year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer the OP's question... (without debating AAP itself!) Yes, absolutely. It definitely couldn't hurt, especially as it sounds like you are set on getting in. If the scores are lower, you just don't submit them. As another poster said, also retake the COGAT for free, which a lot of kids do. Request from your AART now, so it's on the calendar. It's a new application each year with a new appeal allowed each year, which is not clearly communicated. My daughter's test scores were VERY high, and she only got in for 3rd grade on appeal with work samples, so search for the work sample recs here and spend some real time on those between now and Dec deadline. You can talk to the AART and teacher and have them send home copies of the LIII work, which you can always redo/ add at home with additional time. If nothing else, you'll know what's being collected/ submitted and where your student might have gaps to fill.

OP here - I don't think we need to retake the COGAT, the scores on both NNAT and COGAT match up with what other people have posted their children got into AAP with. I really think it was the HOPE and I truly didn't understand the HOPE ratings based on feedback we've received from teachers in the past. All I can imagine is my child was new to the school and the HOPE was submitted so early that the teacher just didn't know the children well at all yet, which also meant that the work samples submitted from the school were pretty awful (the ones we submitted from home were better, but your'e right, I need to do some research into what's considered more acceptable).

Hi again. All of the HOPE scores are generated in Oct, for all kids, not just yours. So, your teacher didn't really know any of the children super well. My child had a low HOPE score in leadership, despite my telling the teacher at our conference that 4 of the girls in the class pulled her aside in a planned, collective attack to tell her that they didn't want to be her friend. The teacher didn't change the score, despite the documented bullying. My un-prepped daughter had a 160 NNAT, 153 COGAT (no I'm not a troll) and was found NOT eligible by the AAP committee in the nominal application. So, when I say it couldn't hurt to retest w/ some prep, I mean it. You can't control the HOPE, but you can prep for the COGAT/ WISC and work samples. With our overwhelmed teacher, my daughter's original work samples weren't great. She was able to produce far superior work on her own at home and got in with those on appeal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer the OP's question... (without debating AAP itself!) Yes, absolutely. It definitely couldn't hurt, especially as it sounds like you are set on getting in. If the scores are lower, you just don't submit them. As another poster said, also retake the COGAT for free, which a lot of kids do. Request from your AART now, so it's on the calendar. It's a new application each year with a new appeal allowed each year, which is not clearly communicated. My daughter's test scores were VERY high, and she only got in for 3rd grade on appeal with work samples, so search for the work sample recs here and spend some real time on those between now and Dec deadline. You can talk to the AART and teacher and have them send home copies of the LIII work, which you can always redo/ add at home with additional time. If nothing else, you'll know what's being collected/ submitted and where your student might have gaps to fill.

OP here - I don't think we need to retake the COGAT, the scores on both NNAT and COGAT match up with what other people have posted their children got into AAP with. I really think it was the HOPE and I truly didn't understand the HOPE ratings based on feedback we've received from teachers in the past. All I can imagine is my child was new to the school and the HOPE was submitted so early that the teacher just didn't know the children well at all yet, which also meant that the work samples submitted from the school were pretty awful (the ones we submitted from home were better, but your'e right, I need to do some research into what's considered more acceptable).

Hi again. All of the HOPE scores are generated in Oct, for all kids, not just yours. So, your teacher didn't really know any of the children super well. My child had a low HOPE score in leadership, despite my telling the teacher at our conference that 4 of the girls in the class pulled her aside in a planned, collective attack to tell her that they didn't want to be her friend. The teacher didn't change the score, despite the documented bullying. My un-prepped daughter had a 160 NNAT, 153 COGAT (no I'm not a troll) and was found NOT eligible by the AAP committee in the nominal application. So, when I say it couldn't hurt to retest w/ some prep, I mean it. You can't control the HOPE, but you can prep for the COGAT/ WISC and work samples. With our overwhelmed teacher, my daughter's original work samples weren't great. She was able to produce far superior work on her own at home and got in with those on appeal.

Honestly, maybe these ratings should be able to get you into AAP but should not be able to keep you out. They are literally saying that gifted is a personality type. It's subject to cultural biases and frankly a bit of racism if we're honest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer the OP's question... (without debating AAP itself!) Yes, absolutely. It definitely couldn't hurt, especially as it sounds like you are set on getting in. If the scores are lower, you just don't submit them. As another poster said, also retake the COGAT for free, which a lot of kids do. Request from your AART now, so it's on the calendar. It's a new application each year with a new appeal allowed each year, which is not clearly communicated. My daughter's test scores were VERY high, and she only got in for 3rd grade on appeal with work samples, so search for the work sample recs here and spend some real time on those between now and Dec deadline. You can talk to the AART and teacher and have them send home copies of the LIII work, which you can always redo/ add at home with additional time. If nothing else, you'll know what's being collected/ submitted and where your student might have gaps to fill.

OP here - I don't think we need to retake the COGAT, the scores on both NNAT and COGAT match up with what other people have posted their children got into AAP with. I really think it was the HOPE and I truly didn't understand the HOPE ratings based on feedback we've received from teachers in the past. All I can imagine is my child was new to the school and the HOPE was submitted so early that the teacher just didn't know the children well at all yet, which also meant that the work samples submitted from the school were pretty awful (the ones we submitted from home were better, but your'e right, I need to do some research into what's considered more acceptable).

What were iready scores? Was your child marked advanced in reading/math on the packet submitted by the school? You said earlier that scores were over the 132 threshold that used to mean something (it doesn’t mean as much anymore w all the test prepping, especially if you’re at a high SES school) but were the sub-scores all over 132? At our school, 132 is considered average.

You need better work samples and if there are areas of weakness in cogat, iready, and/or on Hope rating, you need samples to demonstrate that there is strength in those areas.

Your child didn’t get a bad hope rating and poor work samples bc they’re new to the school. The entire class is new to the teacher when the school year starts. My childrens’ 2nd grade teachers had no idea what kind of student they were just bc they were roaming the halls in K and 1. I agree, there are plenty of arguments to be made that the teachers don’t know the students and their work well enough by the time packets are due, but that applies to the entire class, not just students new to the school that year.

NP but the AART has been working with all of the children since Kindergarten, even if it's only once a week, and they can pull work samples from previous years if they need to. Not to mention that the 2nd grade teacher gets input from the first grade teacher (at least that's how it works at our school, the teachers all know and talk to each other).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer the OP's question... (without debating AAP itself!) Yes, absolutely. It definitely couldn't hurt, especially as it sounds like you are set on getting in. If the scores are lower, you just don't submit them. As another poster said, also retake the COGAT for free, which a lot of kids do. Request from your AART now, so it's on the calendar. It's a new application each year with a new appeal allowed each year, which is not clearly communicated. My daughter's test scores were VERY high, and she only got in for 3rd grade on appeal with work samples, so search for the work sample recs here and spend some real time on those between now and Dec deadline. You can talk to the AART and teacher and have them send home copies of the LIII work, which you can always redo/ add at home with additional time. If nothing else, you'll know what's being collected/ submitted and where your student might have gaps to fill.

OP here - I don't think we need to retake the COGAT, the scores on both NNAT and COGAT match up with what other people have posted their children got into AAP with. I really think it was the HOPE and I truly didn't understand the HOPE ratings based on feedback we've received from teachers in the past. All I can imagine is my child was new to the school and the HOPE was submitted so early that the teacher just didn't know the children well at all yet, which also meant that the work samples submitted from the school were pretty awful (the ones we submitted from home were better, but your'e right, I need to do some research into what's considered more acceptable).

Hi again. All of the HOPE scores are generated in Oct, for all kids, not just yours. So, your teacher didn't really know any of the children super well. My child had a low HOPE score in leadership, despite my telling the teacher at our conference that 4 of the girls in the class pulled her aside in a planned, collective attack to tell her that they didn't want to be her friend. The teacher didn't change the score, despite the documented bullying. My un-prepped daughter had a 160 NNAT, 153 COGAT (no I'm not a troll) and was found NOT eligible by the AAP committee in the nominal application. So, when I say it couldn't hurt to retest w/ some prep, I mean it. You can't control the HOPE, but you can prep for the COGAT/ WISC and work samples. With our overwhelmed teacher, my daughter's original work samples weren't great. She was able to produce far superior work on her own at home and got in with those on appeal.

You're wrong - our HOPE form was dated February.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer the OP's question... (without debating AAP itself!) Yes, absolutely. It definitely couldn't hurt, especially as it sounds like you are set on getting in. If the scores are lower, you just don't submit them. As another poster said, also retake the COGAT for free, which a lot of kids do. Request from your AART now, so it's on the calendar. It's a new application each year with a new appeal allowed each year, which is not clearly communicated. My daughter's test scores were VERY high, and she only got in for 3rd grade on appeal with work samples, so search for the work sample recs here and spend some real time on those between now and Dec deadline. You can talk to the AART and teacher and have them send home copies of the LIII work, which you can always redo/ add at home with additional time. If nothing else, you'll know what's being collected/ submitted and where your student might have gaps to fill.

OP here - I don't think we need to retake the COGAT, the scores on both NNAT and COGAT match up with what other people have posted their children got into AAP with. I really think it was the HOPE and I truly didn't understand the HOPE ratings based on feedback we've received from teachers in the past. All I can imagine is my child was new to the school and the HOPE was submitted so early that the teacher just didn't know the children well at all yet, which also meant that the work samples submitted from the school were pretty awful (the ones we submitted from home were better, but your'e right, I need to do some research into what's considered more acceptable).

Hi again. All of the HOPE scores are generated in Oct, for all kids, not just yours. So, your teacher didn't really know any of the children super well. My child had a low HOPE score in leadership, despite my telling the teacher at our conference that 4 of the girls in the class pulled her aside in a planned, collective attack to tell her that they didn't want to be her friend. The teacher didn't change the score, despite the documented bullying. My un-prepped daughter had a 160 NNAT, 153 COGAT (no I'm not a troll) and was found NOT eligible by the AAP committee in the nominal application. So, when I say it couldn't hurt to retest w/ some prep, I mean it. You can't control the HOPE, but you can prep for the COGAT/ WISC and work samples. With our overwhelmed teacher, my daughter's original work samples weren't great. She was able to produce far superior work on her own at home and got in with those on appeal.

Honestly, maybe these ratings should be able to get you into AAP but should not be able to keep you out. They are literally saying that gifted is a personality type. It's subject to cultural biases and frankly a bit of racism if we're honest.

I like the way you stated this. A child with these scores warrants differentiated academic instruction via AAP LIV. Prepped or not, they’re clearly advanced relative to their peers. Students without such scores should be considered for AAP based on other factors, but what is the point of AAP if it denies entry to a child WITH these scores? There needs to be some level of objectivity.
I say this as a parent of a child with decent, but lower scores than PP of 160/153. I chose not to appeal our rejection because I was satisfied that my smart (but not exceptional) kid would be fine in gen ed and LIII services. I’ll make sure they’re positioned to take algebra and honors classes in 7th if they’re ready, but my kid doesn’t NEED LIV. This PP’s child probably does based on those scores, which is the mission of AAP. It’s all so bizarre. AAP has become a path for ambitious parents of above average kids rather than a program to serve super bright kids. I don’t deny that it’s a great program that benefits those that get in, but it’s silly to see who gets in vs who doesn’t and makes me question if the program is serving the intended population. I understand that test scores can’t be the sole criterion, but it’s frustrating that high-scoring kids don’t get in and much more subjective criteria are used to admit kids with lower scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer the OP's question... (without debating AAP itself!) Yes, absolutely. It definitely couldn't hurt, especially as it sounds like you are set on getting in. If the scores are lower, you just don't submit them. As another poster said, also retake the COGAT for free, which a lot of kids do. Request from your AART now, so it's on the calendar. It's a new application each year with a new appeal allowed each year, which is not clearly communicated. My daughter's test scores were VERY high, and she only got in for 3rd grade on appeal with work samples, so search for the work sample recs here and spend some real time on those between now and Dec deadline. You can talk to the AART and teacher and have them send home copies of the LIII work, which you can always redo/ add at home with additional time. If nothing else, you'll know what's being collected/ submitted and where your student might have gaps to fill.

OP here - I don't think we need to retake the COGAT, the scores on both NNAT and COGAT match up with what other people have posted their children got into AAP with. I really think it was the HOPE and I truly didn't understand the HOPE ratings based on feedback we've received from teachers in the past. All I can imagine is my child was new to the school and the HOPE was submitted so early that the teacher just didn't know the children well at all yet, which also meant that the work samples submitted from the school were pretty awful (the ones we submitted from home were better, but your'e right, I need to do some research into what's considered more acceptable).

What were iready scores? Was your child marked advanced in reading/math on the packet submitted by the school? You said earlier that scores were over the 132 threshold that used to mean something (it doesn’t mean as much anymore w all the test prepping, especially if you’re at a high SES school) but were the sub-scores all over 132? At our school, 132 is considered average.

You need better work samples and if there are areas of weakness in cogat, iready, and/or on Hope rating, you need samples to demonstrate that there is strength in those areas.

Your child didn’t get a bad hope rating and poor work samples bc they’re new to the school. The entire class is new to the teacher when the school year starts. My childrens’ 2nd grade teachers had no idea what kind of student they were just bc they were roaming the halls in K and 1. I agree, there are plenty of arguments to be made that the teachers don’t know the students and their work well enough by the time packets are due, but that applies to the entire class, not just students new to the school that year.

There aren't any schools in FCPS where a "132 is considered average." Stop being ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer the OP's question... (without debating AAP itself!) Yes, absolutely. It definitely couldn't hurt, especially as it sounds like you are set on getting in. If the scores are lower, you just don't submit them. As another poster said, also retake the COGAT for free, which a lot of kids do. Request from your AART now, so it's on the calendar. It's a new application each year with a new appeal allowed each year, which is not clearly communicated. My daughter's test scores were VERY high, and she only got in for 3rd grade on appeal with work samples, so search for the work sample recs here and spend some real time on those between now and Dec deadline. You can talk to the AART and teacher and have them send home copies of the LIII work, which you can always redo/ add at home with additional time. If nothing else, you'll know what's being collected/ submitted and where your student might have gaps to fill.

OP here - I don't think we need to retake the COGAT, the scores on both NNAT and COGAT match up with what other people have posted their children got into AAP with. I really think it was the HOPE and I truly didn't understand the HOPE ratings based on feedback we've received from teachers in the past. All I can imagine is my child was new to the school and the HOPE was submitted so early that the teacher just didn't know the children well at all yet, which also meant that the work samples submitted from the school were pretty awful (the ones we submitted from home were better, but your'e right, I need to do some research into what's considered more acceptable).

What were iready scores? Was your child marked advanced in reading/math on the packet submitted by the school? You said earlier that scores were over the 132 threshold that used to mean something (it doesn’t mean as much anymore w all the test prepping, especially if you’re at a high SES school) but were the sub-scores all over 132? At our school, 132 is considered average.

You need better work samples and if there are areas of weakness in cogat, iready, and/or on Hope rating, you need samples to demonstrate that there is strength in those areas.

Your child didn’t get a bad hope rating and poor work samples bc they’re new to the school. The entire class is new to the teacher when the school year starts. My childrens’ 2nd grade teachers had no idea what kind of student they were just bc they were roaming the halls in K and 1. I agree, there are plenty of arguments to be made that the teachers don’t know the students and their work well enough by the time packets are due, but that applies to the entire class, not just students new to the school that year.

There aren't any schools in FCPS where a "132 is considered average." Stop being ridiculous.

There are some schools where the CoGAT/NNAT threshold for in-pool is above 140. It is a combination of high SES, college educated parents who have provided academic support at home, outside enrichment, and flat out preparing for the test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer the OP's question... (without debating AAP itself!) Yes, absolutely. It definitely couldn't hurt, especially as it sounds like you are set on getting in. If the scores are lower, you just don't submit them. As another poster said, also retake the COGAT for free, which a lot of kids do. Request from your AART now, so it's on the calendar. It's a new application each year with a new appeal allowed each year, which is not clearly communicated. My daughter's test scores were VERY high, and she only got in for 3rd grade on appeal with work samples, so search for the work sample recs here and spend some real time on those between now and Dec deadline. You can talk to the AART and teacher and have them send home copies of the LIII work, which you can always redo/ add at home with additional time. If nothing else, you'll know what's being collected/ submitted and where your student might have gaps to fill.

OP here - I don't think we need to retake the COGAT, the scores on both NNAT and COGAT match up with what other people have posted their children got into AAP with. I really think it was the HOPE and I truly didn't understand the HOPE ratings based on feedback we've received from teachers in the past. All I can imagine is my child was new to the school and the HOPE was submitted so early that the teacher just didn't know the children well at all yet, which also meant that the work samples submitted from the school were pretty awful (the ones we submitted from home were better, but your'e right, I need to do some research into what's considered more acceptable).

What were iready scores? Was your child marked advanced in reading/math on the packet submitted by the school? You said earlier that scores were over the 132 threshold that used to mean something (it doesn’t mean as much anymore w all the test prepping, especially if you’re at a high SES school) but were the sub-scores all over 132? At our school, 132 is considered average.

You need better work samples and if there are areas of weakness in cogat, iready, and/or on Hope rating, you need samples to demonstrate that there is strength in those areas.

Your child didn’t get a bad hope rating and poor work samples bc they’re new to the school. The entire class is new to the teacher when the school year starts. My childrens’ 2nd grade teachers had no idea what kind of student they were just bc they were roaming the halls in K and 1. I agree, there are plenty of arguments to be made that the teachers don’t know the students and their work well enough by the time packets are due, but that applies to the entire class, not just students new to the school that year.

There aren't any schools in FCPS where a "132 is considered average." Stop being ridiculous.

There are some schools where the CoGAT/NNAT threshold for in-pool is above 140. It is a combination of high SES, college educated parents who have provided academic support at home, outside enrichment, and flat out preparing for the test.

Sure. At some schools, 132 is below the in-pool threshold. It's not average. There are no schools where half of the kids are scoring around/above 132. There are no schools where a kid scoring 132s is a perfect fit for gen ed and would be in a classroom full of academic peers in gen ed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You're wrong - our HOPE form was dated February.

You seem satisfied to have me on a technicality... I don't actually recall, it may in fact be dated February. Regardless, I said Oct because the ratings and work samples were 100% consistent with the 2nd grade parent- teacher conference we had in the Oct/ Nov timeframe. When we saw her HOPE score later, we were not surprised. None of the conversations that we had, either the conference or after (even about very serious events like a group of girls refusing to speak to another 7 year old!) impacted her initial impressions. From this I concluded that their process was to draft HOPE scores for all kids prior to the first conference, but I did not directly confirm. I'd suggest that OP/parents do better than I did... ask the question directly, i.e. how/ when are HOPE scores generated? How do they ensure teachers are not just picking their favorite kids but the ones that best model the AAP objectives?

[Anonymous]

If a child retakes the COGAT in 3rd grade and happens to do worse than they did in 2nd grade, are the 3rd grade results included in the AAP packet? Or maybe both years results? Or just the higher score?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer the OP's question... (without debating AAP itself!) Yes, absolutely. It definitely couldn't hurt, especially as it sounds like you are set on getting in. If the scores are lower, you just don't submit them. As another poster said, also retake the COGAT for free, which a lot of kids do. Request from your AART now, so it's on the calendar. It's a new application each year with a new appeal allowed each year, which is not clearly communicated. My daughter's test scores were VERY high, and she only got in for 3rd grade on appeal with work samples, so search for the work sample recs here and spend some real time on those between now and Dec deadline. You can talk to the AART and teacher and have them send home copies of the LIII work, which you can always redo/ add at home with additional time. If nothing else, you'll know what's being collected/ submitted and where your student might have gaps to fill.

OP here - I don't think we need to retake the COGAT, the scores on both NNAT and COGAT match up with what other people have posted their children got into AAP with. I really think it was the HOPE and I truly didn't understand the HOPE ratings based on feedback we've received from teachers in the past. All I can imagine is my child was new to the school and the HOPE was submitted so early that the teacher just didn't know the children well at all yet, which also meant that the work samples submitted from the school were pretty awful (the ones we submitted from home were better, but your'e right, I need to do some research into what's considered more acceptable).

Hi again. All of the HOPE scores are generated in Oct, for all kids, not just yours. So, your teacher didn't really know any of the children super well. My child had a low HOPE score in leadership, despite my telling the teacher at our conference that 4 of the girls in the class pulled her aside in a planned, collective attack to tell her that they didn't want to be her friend. The teacher didn't change the score, despite the documented bullying. My un-prepped daughter had a 160 NNAT, 153 COGAT (no I'm not a troll) and was found NOT eligible by the AAP committee in the nominal application. So, when I say it couldn't hurt to retest w/ some prep, I mean it. You can't control the HOPE, but you can prep for the COGAT/ WISC and work samples. With our overwhelmed teacher, my daughter's original work samples weren't great. She was able to produce far superior work on her own at home and got in with those on appeal.

Honestly, maybe these ratings should be able to get you into AAP but should not be able to keep you out. They are literally saying that gifted is a personality type. It's subject to cultural biases and frankly a bit of racism if we're honest.

I like the way you stated this. A child with these scores warrants differentiated academic instruction via AAP LIV. Prepped or not, they’re clearly advanced relative to their peers. Students without such scores should be considered for AAP based on other factors, but what is the point of AAP if it denies entry to a child WITH these scores? There needs to be some level of objectivity.
I say this as a parent of a child with decent, but lower scores than PP of 160/153. I chose not to appeal our rejection because I was satisfied that my smart (but not exceptional) kid would be fine in gen ed and LIII services. I’ll make sure they’re positioned to take algebra and honors classes in 7th if they’re ready, but my kid doesn’t NEED LIV. This PP’s child probably does based on those scores, which is the mission of AAP. It’s all so bizarre. AAP has become a path for ambitious parents of above average kids rather than a program to serve super bright kids. I don’t deny that it’s a great program that benefits those that get in, but it’s silly to see who gets in vs who doesn’t and makes me question if the program is serving the intended population. I understand that test scores can’t be the sole criterion, but it’s frustrating that high-scoring kids don’t get in and much more subjective criteria are used to admit kids with lower scores.

Let me explain the perspective of a parent of an above average kid, my kid had high scores in NNAT, COGAT (146), iready 97-99 percentiles, not as high as the gifted PP, so you might be consider them above average, in their second grade classroom they received meaningless worksheets to keep them entertained, while the teacher focused on the kids that needed attention as they were below expectations, I saw the little assignments in their friday folder with no feedback, even when my kid was phoning it in, they would get a generic checkmark, instead of asking them to re-do it with higher expectations (as my kid could have done it so much better, they just didn't need to)... I don't consider them gifted, but I do believe they were truly underserved by gen-ed and I hope they are challenged in the AAP classroom.