Honest question: NVSL top divisions - scouting/A meet decisions, first meet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the first meet, I think coaches look at the other team's last year times (mynvsl.com) and make an educated guess on which swimmer swims which strokes.

Lots of teams have public ladders. DD's team used to be very competitive, they peaked at D2. That coach constantly ran simulations and tried to optimize the team score. We've dropped down a bit and now the new coach lets the swimmer pref. strokes, so if the kid at the top of the ladder on back wants back, they get it even if they're more likely to score points in another stroke. It's probably not conducive to winning, but we don't see crazy things like a kid who is really fast at breast avoiding swimming it at time trials or B meets so that they never put down a time

[Anonymous]

For the first meet, we pull data from last year (NVSL) on the other team. We will even pull swimmers club times to see how they are trending.

We then look to see which swimmer is most likely to beat the other team's probable lineup. So a lot of chess involved. Oftentimes on our team our swimmers do not get to swim the strokes they like - they have to swim what will score points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is software that can help with matchups.

This. I thought there was software that ran projections

Cool! I was waiting for someone to say (not sarcastically) that ChatGPT/AI would do the work.

Colonial Swim League has had a tool on their website for at least a couple of years now. You choose the two teams and it spits out the optimal lineup based on times from previous A meets. I don’t think it will use time from time trials, so not as useful for the first A meet.

NVSL has that too, but it isn’t super helpful in seeding the first meet because swimmers have aged up, it’s been a year since NVSL times, and (we are in D1) all the A Meet swimmers are club swimmers (except possibly some 8Us) so they improve rapidly. Recent club times matter quite a bit. This year, there are swimmers from D1 at Olympic Trials, so that’s a bit messy with the planning. D1 swimmers typically schedule vacations around A meets (it’s actually in our parent notice, which seems insane when looking from the outside in).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is software that can help with matchups.

This. I thought there was software that ran projections

Cool! I was waiting for someone to say (not sarcastically) that ChatGPT/AI would do the work.

Colonial Swim League has had a tool on their website for at least a couple of years now. You choose the two teams and it spits out the optimal lineup based on times from previous A meets. I don’t think it will use time from time trials, so not as useful for the first A meet.

NVSL has that too, but it isn’t super helpful in seeding the first meet because swimmers have aged up, it’s been a year since NVSL times, and (we are in D1) all the A Meet swimmers are club swimmers (except possibly some 8Us) so they improve rapidly. Recent club times matter quite a bit. This year, there are swimmers from D1 at Olympic Trials, so that’s a bit messy with the planning. D1 swimmers typically schedule vacations around A meets (it’s actually in our parent notice, which seems insane when looking from the outside in).

That is insane.

[Anonymous]

The nutty parents are out and the first meet hasn't happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is software that can help with matchups.

This. I thought there was software that ran projections

Cool! I was waiting for someone to say (not sarcastically) that ChatGPT/AI would do the work.

Colonial Swim League has had a tool on their website for at least a couple of years now. You choose the two teams and it spits out the optimal lineup based on times from previous A meets. I don’t think it will use time from time trials, so not as useful for the first A meet.

NVSL has that too, but it isn’t super helpful in seeding the first meet because swimmers have aged up, it’s been a year since NVSL times, and (we are in D1) all the A Meet swimmers are club swimmers (except possibly some 8Us) so they improve rapidly. Recent club times matter quite a bit. This year, there are swimmers from D1 at Olympic Trials, so that’s a bit messy with the planning. D1 swimmers typically schedule vacations around A meets (it’s actually in our parent notice, which seems insane when looking from the outside in).

That is insane.

We are a lower division and we do that too. All our serious swimmers vacation in August.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is software that can help with matchups.

This. I thought there was software that ran projections

Cool! I was waiting for someone to say (not sarcastically) that ChatGPT/AI would do the work.

Colonial Swim League has had a tool on their website for at least a couple of years now. You choose the two teams and it spits out the optimal lineup based on times from previous A meets. I don’t think it will use time from time trials, so not as useful for the first A meet.

NVSL has that too, but it isn’t super helpful in seeding the first meet because swimmers have aged up, it’s been a year since NVSL times, and (we are in D1) all the A Meet swimmers are club swimmers (except possibly some 8Us) so they improve rapidly. Recent club times matter quite a bit. This year, there are swimmers from D1 at Olympic Trials, so that’s a bit messy with the planning. D1 swimmers typically schedule vacations around A meets (it’s actually in our parent notice, which seems insane when looking from the outside in).

I call BS on the idea that D1 swimmers (multiple from a team) are at Olympic trials- unless they are spectating. PVS lists the swimmers from the potomac valley who have qualified for Olympic trials, its not that many, and several of them are older than 18. https://www.pvswim.org/athletes/2024-Olympic-Trials-Qualifiers.pdf

Of those who swim in the NVSL and are still eligible to swim this summer (e.g. 18 or under)
one swims for Great Falls- which I think is division 10.
one swims for Fairfax, Division 7.
one swims for Old Keane Mill, new to D1 this year.
one swims for Arlington Forest, division 9.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is software that can help with matchups.

This. I thought there was software that ran projections

Cool! I was waiting for someone to say (not sarcastically) that ChatGPT/AI would do the work.

Colonial Swim League has had a tool on their website for at least a couple of years now. You choose the two teams and it spits out the optimal lineup based on times from previous A meets. I don’t think it will use time from time trials, so not as useful for the first A meet.

NVSL has that too, but it isn’t super helpful in seeding the first meet because swimmers have aged up, it’s been a year since NVSL times, and (we are in D1) all the A Meet swimmers are club swimmers (except possibly some 8Us) so they improve rapidly. Recent club times matter quite a bit. This year, there are swimmers from D1 at Olympic Trials, so that’s a bit messy with the planning. D1 swimmers typically schedule vacations around A meets (it’s actually in our parent notice, which seems insane when looking from the outside in).

I call BS on the idea that D1 swimmers (multiple from a team) are at Olympic trials- unless they are spectating. PVS lists the swimmers from the potomac valley who have qualified for Olympic trials, its not that many, and several of them are older than 18. https://www.pvswim.org/athletes/2024-Olympic-Trials-Qualifiers.pdf

Of those who swim in the NVSL and are still eligible to swim this summer (e.g. 18 or under)
one swims for Great Falls- which I think is division 10.
one swims for Fairfax, Division 7.
one swims for Old Keane Mill, new to D1 this year.
one swims for Arlington Forest, division 9.

I’m not the PP, but one Trials swimmer does swim for OKM, another had planned to transfer to OKM this summer (but now he is at trials and I believe previously swam in the CAL), and (I thought) JT Ewing swims for one of the big three D1 teams. Isn’t he eligible to come back, or am I thinking of how he came back last season to NVSL?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is software that can help with matchups.

This. I thought there was software that ran projections

Cool! I was waiting for someone to say (not sarcastically) that ChatGPT/AI would do the work.

Colonial Swim League has had a tool on their website for at least a couple of years now. You choose the two teams and it spits out the optimal lineup based on times from previous A meets. I don’t think it will use time from time trials, so not as useful for the first A meet.

NVSL has that too, but it isn’t super helpful in seeding the first meet because swimmers have aged up, it’s been a year since NVSL times, and (we are in D1) all the A Meet swimmers are club swimmers (except possibly some 8Us) so they improve rapidly. Recent club times matter quite a bit. This year, there are swimmers from D1 at Olympic Trials, so that’s a bit messy with the planning. D1 swimmers typically schedule vacations around A meets (it’s actually in our parent notice, which seems insane when looking from the outside in).

I call BS on the idea that D1 swimmers (multiple from a team) are at Olympic trials- unless they are spectating. PVS lists the swimmers from the potomac valley who have qualified for Olympic trials, its not that many, and several of them are older than 18. https://www.pvswim.org/athletes/2024-Olympic-Trials-Qualifiers.pdf

Of those who swim in the NVSL and are still eligible to swim this summer (e.g. 18 or under)
one swims for Great Falls- which I think is division 10.
one swims for Fairfax, Division 7.
one swims for Old Keane Mill, new to D1 this year.
one swims for Arlington Forest, division 9.

I’m not the PP, but one Trials swimmer does swim for OKM, another had planned to transfer to OKM this summer (but now he is at trials and I believe previously swam in the CAL), and (I thought) JT Ewing swims for one of the big three D1 teams. Isn’t he eligible to come back, or am I thinking of how he came back last season to NVSL?

Edit: *in the CSL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is software that can help with matchups.

This. I thought there was software that ran projections

Cool! I was waiting for someone to say (not sarcastically) that ChatGPT/AI would do the work.

Colonial Swim League has had a tool on their website for at least a couple of years now. You choose the two teams and it spits out the optimal lineup based on times from previous A meets. I don’t think it will use time from time trials, so not as useful for the first A meet.

NVSL has that too, but it isn’t super helpful in seeding the first meet because swimmers have aged up, it’s been a year since NVSL times, and (we are in D1) all the A Meet swimmers are club swimmers (except possibly some 8Us) so they improve rapidly. Recent club times matter quite a bit. This year, there are swimmers from D1 at Olympic Trials, so that’s a bit messy with the planning. D1 swimmers typically schedule vacations around A meets (it’s actually in our parent notice, which seems insane when looking from the outside in).

That is insane.

We are a lower division and we do that too. All our serious swimmers vacation in August.

That’s because the best kids are still swimming club through the high level meets that run into August, not necessarily because of summer swim.

[Anonymous]

Another few NVSL Qs: When team reps exchange the line-ups by 8 am Friday, do they share what events each swimmer will swim, or do they just give a list of the swimmers attending the meet? If the latter, then do the team reps/coaches formally assign the events once they see who is swimming from the other team? Is there a penalty for putting someone down when the team rep absolutely knows they are not able to swim (ie, is it “fraud”)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is software that can help with matchups.

This. I thought there was software that ran projections

Cool! I was waiting for someone to say (not sarcastically) that ChatGPT/AI would do the work.

Colonial Swim League has had a tool on their website for at least a couple of years now. You choose the two teams and it spits out the optimal lineup based on times from previous A meets. I don’t think it will use time from time trials, so not as useful for the first A meet.

NVSL has that too, but it isn’t super helpful in seeding the first meet because swimmers have aged up, it’s been a year since NVSL times, and (we are in D1) all the A Meet swimmers are club swimmers (except possibly some 8Us) so they improve rapidly. Recent club times matter quite a bit. This year, there are swimmers from D1 at Olympic Trials, so that’s a bit messy with the planning. D1 swimmers typically schedule vacations around A meets (it’s actually in our parent notice, which seems insane when looking from the outside in).

I call BS on the idea that D1 swimmers (multiple from a team) are at Olympic trials- unless they are spectating. PVS lists the swimmers from the potomac valley who have qualified for Olympic trials, its not that many, and several of them are older than 18. https://www.pvswim.org/athletes/2024-Olympic-Trials-Qualifiers.pdf

Of those who swim in the NVSL and are still eligible to swim this summer (e.g. 18 or under)
one swims for Great Falls- which I think is division 10.
one swims for Fairfax, Division 7.
one swims for Old Keane Mill, new to D1 this year.
one swims for Arlington Forest, division 9.

I’m not the PP, but one Trials swimmer does swim for OKM, another had planned to transfer to OKM this summer (but now he is at trials and I believe previously swam in the CAL), and (I thought) JT Ewing swims for one of the big three D1 teams. Isn’t he eligible to come back, or am I thinking of how he came back last season to NVSL?

Edit: *in the CSL

Ewing is 19. He is not eligible for NVSL this summer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another few NVSL Qs: When team reps exchange the line-ups by 8 am Friday, do they share what events each swimmer will swim, or do they just give a list of the swimmers attending the meet? If the latter, then do the team reps/coaches formally assign the events once they see who is swimming from the other team? Is there a penalty for putting someone down when the team rep absolutely knows they are not able to swim (ie, is it “fraud”)?

The firm entry lists are events. It’s not fraud to list someone who you know can’t swim. It’s actually explicitly encouraged if there is any chance the swimmer will be available. You can substitute a slower swimmer for a faster swimmer but you cannot substitute a faster swimmer for a slower swimmer. So you always list the faster swimmer even if you think it unlikely they will make the meet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another few NVSL Qs: When team reps exchange the line-ups by 8 am Friday, do they share what events each swimmer will swim, or do they just give a list of the swimmers attending the meet? If the latter, then do the team reps/coaches formally assign the events once they see who is swimming from the other team? Is there a penalty for putting someone down when the team rep absolutely knows they are not able to swim (ie, is it “fraud”)?

The firm entry lists are events. It’s not fraud to list someone who you know can’t swim. It’s actually explicitly encouraged if there is any chance the swimmer will be available. You can substitute a slower swimmer for a faster swimmer but you cannot substitute a faster swimmer for a slower swimmer. So you always list the faster swimmer even if you think it unlikely they will make the meet

This. In fact, DCs team is doing this for tomorrow. It’s almost certain one of our swimmers will be unavailable but since it’s not impossible, the swimmer is in the lineup. The kids who will be subbed in if necessary have already been told, and the reps will make any changes in the morning. It happens all the time and is perfectly acceptable practice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another few NVSL Qs: When team reps exchange the line-ups by 8 am Friday, do they share what events each swimmer will swim, or do they just give a list of the swimmers attending the meet? If the latter, then do the team reps/coaches formally assign the events once they see who is swimming from the other team? Is there a penalty for putting someone down when the team rep absolutely knows they are not able to swim (ie, is it “fraud”)?

The firm entry lists are events. It’s not fraud to list someone who you know can’t swim. It’s actually explicitly encouraged if there is any chance the swimmer will be available. You can substitute a slower swimmer for a faster swimmer but you cannot substitute a faster swimmer for a slower swimmer. So you always list the faster swimmer even if you think it unlikely they will make the meet

This. In fact, DCs team is doing this for tomorrow. It’s almost certain one of our swimmers will be unavailable but since it’s not impossible, the swimmer is in the lineup. The kids who will be subbed in if necessary have already been told, and the reps will make any changes in the morning. It happens all the time and is perfectly acceptable practice.

Also for NVSL and the first meet there are no times. You can sub a faster swimmer. They only use NVSL times for the no faster swimmer rule (time trials and B meets do not count)