How can precalc be an AP class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't precalc just regular math, probably for college-bound seniors who have no particular love of math?

(My kid told me it was just a cash grab by the College Board, but there's got to be more to it than that, right?)

Lol, no. Your kid has it right. The may claim they are other reasons, but the College Board is almost as venal as the colleges themselves.

Do you think colleges will fall for it? I can't imagine they're going to give college credit for a non-college-level course. And I can't imagine that taking "AP Precalc" will actually be considered the most rigorous course of study.

They will give credit for precalc, but they will also have a math placement test to place into calculus so it won't make a difference unless the only math requirement for the major is precalc. Even then, many would accept the CLEP which is cheaper anyways. I'm not aware of any schools which have a major whose math requirement is met with AP Precalculus but not the precalculus CLEP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The most generous reading is that by making it an AP class, the curriculum becomes standardized which should help better prepare kids from either AP calc or calculus in college

Nope, this argument doesn't work - if this was the CB's goal, they would have made a pre-AP precalculus curriculum just like they've made a standardized algebra, geometry, and algebra 2 curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Yeah your kid is right — this is a money grab.

[Anonymous]

Yes, cash grab but all schools will adjust their math offerings to accommodate this and it will be normalized. College admissions officers won’t blink. It is treated differently at different districts though. At ours, it’s the “middle of the road” tracking. Accelerated students would never take AP Pre Calc, there is a more advance pre calc class for those students. Likewise, struggling math students would not take it either. So when used this way, I don’t see an issue with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, cash grab but all schools will adjust their math offerings to accommodate this and it will be normalized. College admissions officers won’t blink. It is treated differently at different districts though. At ours, it’s the “middle of the road” tracking. Accelerated students would never take AP Pre Calc, there is a more advance pre calc class for those students. Likewise, struggling math students would not take it either. So when used this way, I don’t see an issue with it.

The problem is that several area districts are putting accelerated students into AP Pre Calc and have eliminated the more advanced pre calc class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, cash grab but all schools will adjust their math offerings to accommodate this and it will be normalized. College admissions officers won’t blink. It is treated differently at different districts though. At ours, it’s the “middle of the road” tracking. Accelerated students would never take AP Pre Calc, there is a more advance pre calc class for those students. Likewise, struggling math students would not take it either. So when used this way, I don’t see an issue with it.

The problem is that several area districts are putting accelerated students into AP Pre Calc and have eliminated the more advanced pre calc class.

That is unfortunate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, cash grab but all schools will adjust their math offerings to accommodate this and it will be normalized. College admissions officers won’t blink. It is treated differently at different districts though. At ours, it’s the “middle of the road” tracking. Accelerated students would never take AP Pre Calc, there is a more advance pre calc class for those students. Likewise, struggling math students would not take it either. So when used this way, I don’t see an issue with it.

Can you describe what additional content is in the more advanced pre calc class compared to AP precalc? Our district (no longer in DC) is considering this change and admin is saying there won't be a change, even for the most accelerated students. But it's hard to figure out as a parent of an accelerated kid who is still in 8th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, cash grab but all schools will adjust their math offerings to accommodate this and it will be normalized. College admissions officers won’t blink. It is treated differently at different districts though. At ours, it’s the “middle of the road” tracking. Accelerated students would never take AP Pre Calc, there is a more advance pre calc class for those students. Likewise, struggling math students would not take it either. So when used this way, I don’t see an issue with it.

Can you describe what additional content is in the more advanced pre calc class compared to AP precalc? Our district (no longer in DC) is considering this change and admin is saying there won't be a change, even for the most accelerated students. But it's hard to figure out as a parent of an accelerated kid who is still in 8th grade.

I think it will depend on what is covered in a particular honors precalc class. AP precalc is intended to help kids who otherwise would not take precalc do so. It should really be replacing the on-level class for school districts that have a more challenging honors course option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all states have 4 years obligatory math in high school. For example California only has 2 years mandatory, which is why precalculus could be a university class.

But wouldn't it be considered remedial? There are college English classes that cover the absolute basics of grammar and composition, and they're zero-level classes, whereas "Introductory Composition" is 101

All the scoffing is a little ridiculous, elitist and parochial, all at once. The educational requirements are varied across the 50 states not everything is the same as in your neck of the woods.

It would not be remedial, but if course it will not count as a requirement for science and engineering majors. It will count for some other majors like humanities, and frankly you don’t need to take calculus for comparative literature or marketing.

If UC Berkeley has a precalculus course and gives credit to it, it’s good enough as an AP from some random high school. It’s up there with all lower division courses like calculus, multi, Lin alg, etc.
https://math.berkeley.edu/courses/overview/lowerdivcourses/math32

Another benefit is in an age of grade inflation and lax standards there some attempt at an independent evaluation, which I welcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all states have 4 years obligatory math in high school. For example California only has 2 years mandatory, which is why precalculus could be a university class.

But wouldn't it be considered remedial? There are college English classes that cover the absolute basics of grammar and composition, and they're zero-level classes, whereas "Introductory Composition" is 101

All the scoffing is a little ridiculous, elitist and parochial, all at once. The educational requirements are varied across the 50 states not everything is the same as in your neck of the woods.

It would not be remedial, but if course it will not count as a requirement for science and engineering majors. It will count for some other majors like humanities, and frankly you don’t need to take calculus for comparative literature or marketing.

If UC Berkeley has a precalculus course and gives credit to it, it’s good enough as an AP from some random high school. It’s up there with all lower division courses like calculus, multi, Lin alg, etc.
https://math.berkeley.edu/courses/overview/lowerdivcourses/math32

Another benefit is in an age of grade inflation and lax standards there some attempt at an independent evaluation, which I welcome.

But the AP precalc exam is watered down. It only tests on the first three units of AP Precalc, which is roughly 2/3 Algebra 2 content. The exam does not cover the more challenging aspects of precalc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all states have 4 years obligatory math in high school. For example California only has 2 years mandatory, which is why precalculus could be a university class.

But wouldn't it be considered remedial? There are college English classes that cover the absolute basics of grammar and composition, and they're zero-level classes, whereas "Introductory Composition" is 101

All the scoffing is a little ridiculous, elitist and parochial, all at once. The educational requirements are varied across the 50 states not everything is the same as in your neck of the woods.

It would not be remedial, but if course it will not count as a requirement for science and engineering majors. It will count for some other majors like humanities, and frankly you don’t need to take calculus for comparative literature or marketing.

If UC Berkeley has a precalculus course and gives credit to it, it’s good enough as an AP from some random high school. It’s up there with all lower division courses like calculus, multi, Lin alg, etc.
https://math.berkeley.edu/courses/overview/lowerdivcourses/math32

Another benefit is in an age of grade inflation and lax standards there some attempt at an independent evaluation, which I welcome.

But the AP precalc exam is watered down. It only tests on the first three units of AP Precalc, which is roughly 2/3 Algebra 2 content. The exam does not cover the more challenging aspects of precalc.

Check the Berkeley precalculus, it’s the same as what’s on the AP exam.

College Board doesn’t have to do the most challenging course or the most in depth, probably there are honors precalculus classes that are better.

The student should choose whatever makes the most sense to them.

[Anonymous]

What happened to Trigonometry, does that class not exist anymore?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all states have 4 years obligatory math in high school. For example California only has 2 years mandatory, which is why precalculus could be a university class.

But wouldn't it be considered remedial? There are college English classes that cover the absolute basics of grammar and composition, and they're zero-level classes, whereas "Introductory Composition" is 101

All the scoffing is a little ridiculous, elitist and parochial, all at once. The educational requirements are varied across the 50 states not everything is the same as in your neck of the woods.

It would not be remedial, but if course it will not count as a requirement for science and engineering majors. It will count for some other majors like humanities, and frankly you don’t need to take calculus for comparative literature or marketing.

If UC Berkeley has a precalculus course and gives credit to it, it’s good enough as an AP from some random high school. It’s up there with all lower division courses like calculus, multi, Lin alg, etc.
https://math.berkeley.edu/courses/overview/lowerdivcourses/math32

Another benefit is in an age of grade inflation and lax standards there some attempt at an independent evaluation, which I welcome.

But the AP precalc exam is watered down. It only tests on the first three units of AP Precalc, which is roughly 2/3 Algebra 2 content. The exam does not cover the more challenging aspects of precalc.

Check the Berkeley precalculus, it’s the same as what’s on the AP exam.

College Board doesn’t have to do the most challenging course or the most in depth, probably there are honors precalculus classes that are better.

The student should choose whatever makes the most sense to them.

That’s the problem - some school districts are offering AP precalc in place of honors, not regular, precalc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My kid told me it was just a cash grab by the College Board, but there's got to be more to it than that, right?

BINGO.

Your kid is right.

It's a participation trophy so everyone can feel like they are taking APs and it's why kids seem like they have so many more APs than a few decades ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all states have 4 years obligatory math in high school. For example California only has 2 years mandatory, which is why precalculus could be a university class.

But wouldn't it be considered remedial? There are college English classes that cover the absolute basics of grammar and composition, and they're zero-level classes, whereas "Introductory Composition" is 101

All the scoffing is a little ridiculous, elitist and parochial, all at once. The educational requirements are varied across the 50 states not everything is the same as in your neck of the woods.

It would not be remedial, but if course it will not count as a requirement for science and engineering majors. It will count for some other majors like humanities, and frankly you don’t need to take calculus for comparative literature or marketing.

If UC Berkeley has a precalculus course and gives credit to it, it’s good enough as an AP from some random high school. It’s up there with all lower division courses like calculus, multi, Lin alg, etc.
https://math.berkeley.edu/courses/overview/lowerdivcourses/math32

Another benefit is in an age of grade inflation and lax standards there some attempt at an independent evaluation, which I welcome.

I agree with the bolded. Too many colleges are admitting kids with high grades and finding after placement tests that the kid needs remedial math. A high AP precalc score lets the college know that the kid won't be needing remedial math services.