Eliot-Hine

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The percentage of kids below/at grade level really is not a function of how effective the school is. SO many students arrive at middle school incredibly far behind where they should be. This is a function of so many factors, including quality of elementary school education, pandemic, socioeconomic status, etc. While there is still a lot of progress to be made, the school was recognized earlier this school year for math and reading growth that exceeds other middle schools.

This. Middle school PARCC scores are just not a very informative metric. A middle school only has three years with each kid, best case scenario, to make up for them being many years behind when they come in. Look to growth metrics and other quality indicators such as retention and published student work.

When, after three years, the data looks like this, you are not doing an effective job:

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at EH:
ELA: 15 of 75 (20%)
Math (8th grade): data suppressed (<5%)
Math (Algebra 1): data suppressed

I think this was from a weird post-covid year where there was a lot of attrition in 8th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The percentage of kids below/at grade level really is not a function of how effective the school is. SO many students arrive at middle school incredibly far behind where they should be. This is a function of so many factors, including quality of elementary school education, pandemic, socioeconomic status, etc. While there is still a lot of progress to be made, the school was recognized earlier this school year for math and reading growth that exceeds other middle schools.

This. Middle school PARCC scores are just not a very informative metric. A middle school only has three years with each kid, best case scenario, to make up for them being many years behind when they come in. Look to growth metrics and other quality indicators such as retention and published student work.

But the EH scores drop precipitously from 6th to 8th... so either the high achieving kids are leaving (not great) or they are actually losing ground while at EH (very bad). Hopefully that was just 2 classes of blip and things will look better this year.

I don't think you're wrong per se, but to accurately describe the performance would require an assessment of both 8th grade math and Algebra I, and the data is suppressed. Also, it's odd to me how 8th grade is a smaller number of kids AND a smaller percentage of those kids took the PARCC. Not that that means you're wrong, but it's weird data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The percentage of kids below/at grade level really is not a function of how effective the school is. SO many students arrive at middle school incredibly far behind where they should be. This is a function of so many factors, including quality of elementary school education, pandemic, socioeconomic status, etc. While there is still a lot of progress to be made, the school was recognized earlier this school year for math and reading growth that exceeds other middle schools.

This. Middle school PARCC scores are just not a very informative metric. A middle school only has three years with each kid, best case scenario, to make up for them being many years behind when they come in. Look to growth metrics and other quality indicators such as retention and published student work.

My concern would be about the energy/resources that need to be spent on the very large majority of remedial students. Does the school end up so focused on their needs that it isn't able to give adequate attention to kids who are on- and above-grade level. What does the tracking look like? In my public middle school we had honors classes for all four core subjects, but my impression has been that EH does not. Would be delighted to be wrong.

OP here. This is where I had to drop a lot of preconceptions. My kid is not so special that he doesn’t benefit from interacting with all the other kids or the lessons as taught. The teachers are good and engage everyone. Lots of opportunities for cooperation, expression and group work. Honestly my particular kid likely benefits more from that than say being assigned books at his actual reading level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The percentage of kids below/at grade level really is not a function of how effective the school is. SO many students arrive at middle school incredibly far behind where they should be. This is a function of so many factors, including quality of elementary school education, pandemic, socioeconomic status, etc. While there is still a lot of progress to be made, the school was recognized earlier this school year for math and reading growth that exceeds other middle schools.

This. Middle school PARCC scores are just not a very informative metric. A middle school only has three years with each kid, best case scenario, to make up for them being many years behind when they come in. Look to growth metrics and other quality indicators such as retention and published student work.

PARCC scores are, however, the only proxy for determining whether or not the school will have a cohort of students working at or above grade level.

A school's success in bringing students from 1s to 2s doesn't really indicate anything for prospective students who are currently scoring 4s and 5s.

OP here. I think you are wrong about this. A school culture focused on good teaching lifts all kids. The teachers basically know what my particular kid is capable of and push him to get there. They actually care about all of the kids!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The percentage of kids below/at grade level really is not a function of how effective the school is. SO many students arrive at middle school incredibly far behind where they should be. This is a function of so many factors, including quality of elementary school education, pandemic, socioeconomic status, etc. While there is still a lot of progress to be made, the school was recognized earlier this school year for math and reading growth that exceeds other middle schools.

This. Middle school PARCC scores are just not a very informative metric. A middle school only has three years with each kid, best case scenario, to make up for them being many years behind when they come in. Look to growth metrics and other quality indicators such as retention and published student work.

When, after three years, the data looks like this, you are not doing an effective job:

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at EH:
ELA: 15 of 75 (20%)
Math (8th grade): data suppressed (<5%)
Math (Algebra 1): data suppressed

I think this was from a weird post-covid year where there was a lot of attrition in 8th grade.

If you add 8th grade math and Algebra I together (done by selecting Grade of Enrollment as 8th and Tested Grade/Subject as All), it's 5.26% proficient. So quite bad.

Looking at the kids scoring 3-5 on the PARCC, just for more context, they do have a bunch of kids scoring 3s.

ELA is 38.66%
8th and Algebra I combined is 17.10%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The percentage of kids below/at grade level really is not a function of how effective the school is. SO many students arrive at middle school incredibly far behind where they should be. This is a function of so many factors, including quality of elementary school education, pandemic, socioeconomic status, etc. While there is still a lot of progress to be made, the school was recognized earlier this school year for math and reading growth that exceeds other middle schools.

Yes especially since a big chunk of those kids are 3s and not extended behind, and the school tracks for math.

6th grade scoring 1s and 2s:
Math: 59%
ELA: 40%

7th grade scoring 1s and 2s:
Math: 62%
ELA: 44%

8th grade scoring 1s and 2s:
Math: 83%
ELA: 61%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The percentage of kids below/at grade level really is not a function of how effective the school is. SO many students arrive at middle school incredibly far behind where they should be. This is a function of so many factors, including quality of elementary school education, pandemic, socioeconomic status, etc. While there is still a lot of progress to be made, the school was recognized earlier this school year for math and reading growth that exceeds other middle schools.

This. Middle school PARCC scores are just not a very informative metric. A middle school only has three years with each kid, best case scenario, to make up for them being many years behind when they come in. Look to growth metrics and other quality indicators such as retention and published student work.

When, after three years, the data looks like this, you are not doing an effective job:

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at EH:
ELA: 15 of 75 (20%)
Math (8th grade): data suppressed (<5%)
Math (Algebra 1): data suppressed

I think this was from a weird post-covid year where there was a lot of attrition in 8th grade.

Somebody grabbed these stats from the thread on EH/SH/Jefferson. SH and Jefferson looked much better in comparison. Why did EH see this drop but not SH or Jefferson? Something different in the COVID response?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The percentage of kids below/at grade level really is not a function of how effective the school is. SO many students arrive at middle school incredibly far behind where they should be. This is a function of so many factors, including quality of elementary school education, pandemic, socioeconomic status, etc. While there is still a lot of progress to be made, the school was recognized earlier this school year for math and reading growth that exceeds other middle schools.

This. Middle school PARCC scores are just not a very informative metric. A middle school only has three years with each kid, best case scenario, to make up for them being many years behind when they come in. Look to growth metrics and other quality indicators such as retention and published student work.

When, after three years, the data looks like this, you are not doing an effective job:

Proficiency rates for 8th grade at EH:
ELA: 15 of 75 (20%)
Math (8th grade): data suppressed (<5%)
Math (Algebra 1): data suppressed

I think this was from a weird post-covid year where there was a lot of attrition in 8th grade.

Somebody grabbed these stats from the thread on EH/SH/Jefferson. SH and Jefferson looked much better in comparison. Why did EH see this drop but not SH or Jefferson? Something different in the COVID response?

Not sure all of the variables that impact enrollment at any school, but it is probably relevant that Eliot Hine was getting their modernization from July 2018 - September 2021. Also, the current principal started in 2018 (or 2019, I forget), and I believe when she started she was the third principal in three years. So between modernization, trailers, leadership change, COVID/virtual school, I imagine some families peeled off at certain points. As somebody who just entered the school this year with my sixth grader, I know a lot of 8th grade families this year who have been there since 6th, so it seems to me that all of those external variables have stabilized. Also the population of the school has grown a lot in the past few years- I don't have the numbers on me now, but with the added enrollment the staff has grown, clubs, sports, etc.

[Anonymous]

As long as your kid is scoring 5s on PARCC, I see no reason to worry. Kids can learn anywhere, and all that matters is that your kid is reaching their potential.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The percentage of kids below/at grade level really is not a function of how effective the school is. SO many students arrive at middle school incredibly far behind where they should be. This is a function of so many factors, including quality of elementary school education, pandemic, socioeconomic status, etc. While there is still a lot of progress to be made, the school was recognized earlier this school year for math and reading growth that exceeds other middle schools.

This. Middle school PARCC scores are just not a very informative metric. A middle school only has three years with each kid, best case scenario, to make up for them being many years behind when they come in. Look to growth metrics and other quality indicators such as retention and published student work.

PARCC scores are, however, the only proxy for determining whether or not the school will have a cohort of students working at or above grade level.

A school's success in bringing students from 1s to 2s doesn't really indicate anything for prospective students who are currently scoring 4s and 5s.

OP here. I think you are wrong about this. A school culture focused on good teaching lifts all kids. The teachers basically know what my particular kid is capable of and push him to get there. They actually care about all of the kids!

This has also been my experience with a high scoring kid in a titie 1 elementary-- the teachers who excel at working with the kids who are behind are also the best at pushing my kid further. It makes sense-- a great teacher is a great teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The percentage of kids below/at grade level really is not a function of how effective the school is. SO many students arrive at middle school incredibly far behind where they should be. This is a function of so many factors, including quality of elementary school education, pandemic, socioeconomic status, etc. While there is still a lot of progress to be made, the school was recognized earlier this school year for math and reading growth that exceeds other middle schools.

Yes especially since a big chunk of those kids are 3s and not extended behind, and the school tracks for math.

6th grade scoring 1s and 2s:
Math: 59%
ELA: 40%

7th grade scoring 1s and 2s:
Math: 62%
ELA: 44%

8th grade scoring 1s and 2s:
Math: 83%
ELA: 61%

Yikes.

[Anonymous]

I am not just making excuses. The in-bound buy-in at EH from Maury etc. has been both only very recent and pronounced. Who knows if it will be sustained. But the past year 6th and 8th grade cohorts might have just been a substantially different mix of kids. You would need to look at the performance of the same cohort year over year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not just making excuses. The in-bound buy-in at EH from Maury etc. has been both only very recent and pronounced. Who knows if it will be sustained. But the past year 6th and 8th grade cohorts might have just been a substantially different mix of kids. You would need to look at the performance of the same cohort year over year.

Agreed, along with earlier post about the various transitions EH has gone through in the past 6 years makes it hard to make accurate analysis of data. Also, as much as Maury is talked about, Payne sent a full grade to EH this year, and that cohort/school has been scoring well (if PARCC is the metric by which we are going to judge schools). Unrelated to EH specifically, I have talked to folks in the schools and they have seen even larger disparities among performance levels with these younger middle school kids who were learning all their foundational math right as schools shut for COVID.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The percentage of kids below/at grade level really is not a function of how effective the school is. SO many students arrive at middle school incredibly far behind where they should be. This is a function of so many factors, including quality of elementary school education, pandemic, socioeconomic status, etc. While there is still a lot of progress to be made, the school was recognized earlier this school year for math and reading growth that exceeds other middle schools.

This. Middle school PARCC scores are just not a very informative metric. A middle school only has three years with each kid, best case scenario, to make up for them being many years behind when they come in. Look to growth metrics and other quality indicators such as retention and published student work.

PARCC scores are, however, the only proxy for determining whether or not the school will have a cohort of students working at or above grade level.

A school's success in bringing students from 1s to 2s doesn't really indicate anything for prospective students who are currently scoring 4s and 5s.

OP here. I think you are wrong about this. A school culture focused on good teaching lifts all kids. The teachers basically know what my particular kid is capable of and push him to get there. They actually care about all of the kids!

It sounds like your child is in the right school. Congratulations!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As long as your kid is scoring 5s on PARCC, I see no reason to worry. Kids can learn anywhere, and all that matters is that your kid is reaching their potential.

Serious question: do you really think your kid is "reaching their potential" when the majority of their classmates are below grade level? You don't think your child would learn substantially more in an on grade level classroom?