How to reconcile the fact that one of you wants something the other does not?

[Anonymous]

Would your husband consider Baltimore? Better job market than Portland (I have a friend there with the same problem - chronic unemployment right now) and you'd be close enough to DC to see the friends you made here, but you could buy a cheaper house and not have the commuting issues of DC. It's a little more relaxed up there, and there are some nice communities. Though you'd have to live outside of the city itself - the schools are pretty bad, I think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP -- When I started to read your thread my first thought was that you must be a SAHM. Not quite sure if you are right now, but then I read later that it's an economically depressed area and you're unable to find good work right now. I really wonder how much of your desire to move back to DC is tied to that. Your husband presumably has a job so is probably feeling a lot more comfortable in the things he likely gave up about DC life (nasty commutes, long hours, etc.) whereas you're more likely to be desperate to jump back into that world in order to recapture the world of having fulfilling work. Keep in mind, the job market is tough in many cities right now (DC included) and try to make sure that you aren't glorifying the entire lifestyle of DC when you think back on an old career because it might not be there again for you.

I also think the fact that your husband would consider another move is huge and agree with the pp that in major decisions both people have to be 100% on board. This city has a lot to offer, but you weren't happy here for a reason and those reasons will all still be here when and if you come back.

I think all responders have hit on good and important points, though perhaps the most resonating in these comments above. After lots of time to give this lots of thought, I honestly believe it's a combination of both trying to recapture something I had there...largely having to do with a career and an identity, and also just some plain beliefs that misjudged what I wanted. I actually think where we live now (Portland, OR to the person who asked) is an amazing place in many, many ways and I when people ask me about it, more often than not I am quick to point out all the great things about it, but as time goes on (we'll be coming up on four years in the fall) there are some negatives that are kind of key: 1) The weather. I don't think I need to go into detail here, but suffice it to say that I thought I'd be okay with the rain and gray and chill, and I am in the core winter months but when it's June and your sitting in a turtleneck and fleece, it's depressing. 2) Double digit unemployment in Oregon (not sure of current stats but for a long while we've been behind Michigan with highest unemployment in the nation). And yes, that means I'm currently a SAHM, not by choice...which has its own challenges. W/o going into a long story, after building a good resume and career in DC, my career here has been a bit of disaster. I've now been applying and interviewing for at least a year now. The process is grueling (much harder than any DC interview I ever had), with each position having 200 - 300 applicants. I'm getting really good at the rejection thing. As you can imagine, this all translates to stress on our finances as we have set ourselves up to be a two-income household with challenges downgrading. Meanwhile, again, w/o going into details, I have good reason to believe that becoming employed again with good salaries for both of us in DC would not be difficult. 3) Relationships. All of our "new" friends here remain more acquaintances than any really good friends. Anyone I consider to be a true part of my friend network/support system is elsewhere, including DC. We spend a lot of time solo as a family. 4) Education. Portland has among the highest high school dropout rate in the nation and schools in major crisis. They just fired a bunch of special ed teachers and attempted to drop PE programs altogether but was just saved due to a huge community uproar. Class sizes are also among the highest in the nation and drugs are pervasive here. Now, this is something that has not changed a ton since we've lived here (though again, has gotten worse since the recession) and probably should have been considered more closely when we chose to move here. Maybe it was the fact that our son was only 10 months old at the time, though that's no excuse.

And then there's the smaller stuff like the shopping is very mediocre compared to what I'm used to, and though I hate to admit it, that bothers me. And I wish I could take my son to the museums and the zoo (yes, we have them here and they are really nice...but they aren't the Smithsonian by any means), and wow, how he would love, love, love watching the planes land/take off at Gravelly Point. And yes, I got so burned out on the long hours in DC, etc. etc. but I have to say that for the most part, I always knew overall, I was a pretty good fit with the city. Even in the time before we left, it was not all that uncommon to be on the Metro or driving down the GW Parkway and think, "wow, I live here!" I felt like I was a part of something important there and again, while yes, so much of it started to annoy me and I wanted a "simpler" life to raise my kids in, I think part of me liked it more than I wanted to admit. When they put the for sale sign in our front yard and it became real that we were leaving, I started bawling and did so almost daily until we left. I was a complete wreck on our flight out National. That day is very etched in my mind. At the time I thought it was just because I didn't do well with change and I had been there more than 10 years, and sort of "grown up" there in terms of my adult life and career and just needed to get over the hump of leaving...but four years later when I still think fondly about my life there and feel disconnected here, I start to take it more seriously.

What I realized very recently is that I've kind of developed a love/hate relationship with Oregon. Is is such a beautiful place to live...our families are always marveling at the pics we send out from day trips to the coast, us skiing or hiking with Mt. Hood (all when weather allows, of course) in the backdrop or visiting fabulous wineries. If we left, I would definitely miss that stuff. But it's getting harder to ignore some of what to me are major negatives. Sorry for the super long post. It's been a really hard time for me and to the posters who think there's some other issue here that I need to figure out, I guess you are right but I've become so lost and confused about this whole thing over the last few years, it's hard to know what is up and what is down anymore. So perhaps I am just grasping at something I used to have because it's the only thing I know and feel comfortable with right now. Whatever it is, I wish I could figure it out and get back to the business of being happy. Thanks to whomever is listening/reading this book!

I'm not sure if it is DC that you miss, or if it is working in a city that you miss. It must be hard moving so far away with the hopes of something and it turning out not as you planned. But I wonder if you were working if you would feel this way. Chicago might be a good fit, but honestly, it you are used to the East Coast, you aren't going to find it in the Midwest or the PNW. Northern Cali or Seattle you can get that small town feel on the outskirts, while still being close to the city. Did you in IN the city here in DC?

My son just ate something off the floor and I lost my train of thought, but I know how hard it is to move away. Granted, I moved away from somewhere TO DC, but it's hard no matter how you look at it and I know it must be scary to feel "stuck" someplace. Best of luck to you, hopefully you can come up with a compromise that makes you both happy, and provides for your children.

[Anonymous]

I'm confused. OP, you live in Baltimore now? You're close enough to DC that you can come enjoy what the city has to offer any weekend. You could even take advantage of the job opportunities here - MARC trains are reliable (heh, for the most part) and cheap.

I could understand why you would feel a longing if you were in middle of nowhere Arizona or something... but you're still in the "DC Region."

If your DH truly will not leave Baltimore - just work with it. Take day trips to DC on the weekends. Take the MARC train down for dinner.

Or consider Laurel or one of the in-between suburbs as a compromise.

I think you guys can work this out. Honestly, as soon as I read that you had only moved to Baltimore I thought - yeah, they can do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP,

Thanks for your really heartfelt response. I'm typing this in Baltimore, which is the city we moved to in order to "escape" DC and be near DH's job. And while Baltimore is clearly a lot closer to DC than Oregon, I feel your pain. I gave up a job I loved (they wouldn't let me telecommute and there's no way I could have handled commuting into the city each day, though I know others who do it.) Anyway, I have no good advice, just a cyber-hug, from another displaced DCUMama who's fearful that she just committed career suicide.

I'm the immediate PP. I thought this was the OP (living in Baltimore).

My bad. Disregard.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks all for the continuing responses and support. Honestly, I don't have that many people that I talk to about this besides DH (and a few good girlfriends on the phone), so I realized after I started this thread that it helps just to be able to vent. Even most of our family has kind of stopped asking about my job situation - which I understand on one hand but makes me feel more disconnected from them on the other. To the person who asked - I live in the SW Portland area. Lake Oswego is very nice (and great schools) but farther out than we wanted to live (and too expensive at the time we were buying...even coming from DC). That's another thing I was reading just yesterday, that for a such a depressed economy, Portland still has a higher than average cost of living, which I agree with and is unfortunate.

I don't think that Baltimore, even as close as it is to DC, would be high on either of our lists. And no, we didn't live in the District, we lived in N. Arlington and I worked downtown most of the time I was there. I should also point out that I'm actually from the west coast...Northern California native through college and then I switched to the east coast for grad school simply because I suspected that my personality was a good fit with the east, and it was. Of course I always loved coming home to visit and in my mind, you can't beat the beauty of the west coast and I've really enjoyed being back from that standpoint. We looked strongly at the Bay Area when we started to investigate moving and DH was close to a job offer there, but we pulled back because among other things, we just weren't willing to endure the extreme cost of living there. So, in part that's how we settled on Portland - though we have wondered recently if Seattle might have been a better overall fit (except we've still got the weather issue there) and have not ruled that out as DH could fairly easily get a transfer there with his company. But if we do ever end up moving, it will be because I've found a job somewhere and DH can either can a transfer to that city or has a connection to pretty easily get a job as well (which would be the case in DC). We're done with the one following the other and then assuming the other will find employment of some sort with no real connections. And for more record, I actually did have a job here that I got pretty easily through my previous company in DC, but I resigned it about five months prior to the bottom of the economy dropping out because it was essentially unbearable. I thought I'd take a few months off to regroup, spend the summer with my son and look for something new. That was two years - and one pregnancy/new child - ago now. Believe me, I have many days that I wonder if that was one of the worst mistakes I ever made, yet almost all my colleagues left after me one by one and a year later the office - a small office of a larger company headquartered elsewhere - closed down.)

Anyway, thanks again for listening. This may sound silly, but I know there are so many people in DC that feel the way we did about getting out and moving somewhere that is smaller, more laid back, family friendly, etc.(some who have responded here), that I do hope my experience provides some food for thought for those folks.

[Anonymous]

I have some friends that left DC for Portland a few years back and recently moved back here to Arlington, for basically all the same reasons you gave. So you aren't the only one, for what it's worth. (Probably not much, but wanted you to know that your position isn't an unreasonable one.) And yes, they seem really happy to be back, despite the heat wave.

[Anonymous]

Wondering how the OP is doing? We're considering a similar "move to a smaller place" and wondering what the OP decided to do.

[Anonymous]

OP, it sounds as if you are to some t looking for a "geographic cure". You weren't happy in DC and wanted to leave, now you're not happy where you are and want to reconsider DC again. In the last four years, DC hours and traffic have not improved, let me assure you. Your situation does sound difficult, SAH but not by choice, etc.--all hard. However, if you were back in DC, dealing with all the BS here, the heat wave we just had, living the rat race but this time with TWO children--do you think you'd be happier? Or would you look back at the days in Portland when you got to spend a lot of time with your kids and wish you could go back? Presumably, you'd wish for some kind of in between.

As for actual decision-making advice, if your DH does not want to go back to DC, I agree with PPs, one no = no. How transportable is his job? Can he transfer someplace? I would move to a new place he could transfer and the economy is better, or move when you both have new jobs lined up. Or is it his turn to SAH if you get a good offer? Otherwise, keep pounding the pavement where you are. Sounds like you are and I know it's tough.

[Anonymous]

OP, I think you might be surprised by the job market in DC. While it is still better than a lot of places it is under stress. It seems to me that there are more and more posts on DCUM about people losing their jobs. Another factor which could have a big impact on this area is the new deal waiting to be voted on and signed.

I think you might be seeing DC with rosy glasses.

[Anonymous]

OP, don't beat yourself up. You moved with a baby. Now you have a child. Of course the world looks different. It is impossible to imagine how you'll feel or what will matter when that baby goes from being a cuddly bundle to a human with interests and ideas. My folks made a similar move when I was a baby and came back when I was three. As for the unhappiness thread, might you be placing too much importance on you and DH as a unit? Friends and hobbies do matter. If you don't have either whre you live, no wonder you're miserable. I don't like to hit the "seek counceling" button, but you may want to. The same stuff that made you unhappy in D.C. is still here. You'd do well to talk with somebody so you can determine if you are viewing D.C. with rose colored glasses, or if your perspective really has changed. My folks left D.C. so my dad could work for himself. He thought he'd love that lifestyle. Turns out, he didn't. He told me that when he came back to D.c. he loved the fact that he could "just go to work" and "work indoors in an office". His business in the small town involved much outdoor work at all hours of the day and night. So, you'd do well to sort out how you feel a bit more.

[Anonymous]

Your post is timely for me, OP. I dislike DC. The climate, the traffic, the rat race, the people, etc. We are looking to move and that has always been our plan (though we've stayed in DC longer than we'd originally hoped). Now that we are getting closer to moving I realize there are things I will definitely miss about DC. I have also come to realize that moving will not magically make me a happier person and that I need to work on myself a bit. Moving is an easy way to think you'll be happier but it's like saying when I lose weight I'll be happier, when I get married I'll be happer, when I get a better job I'll be happier, when I make more, when I work fewer hours, when I [fill in the blank]....

Yes, many of those things can lead to a quality of life increase and are real but it can also just be a cop out to dealing with stuff you need to deal with. Either as a person or your marriage or both, work on things.

And as a side note, DC is a hell hole and you don't really want to come back.

[Anonymous]

The problem with so many of these types of stories is that people go from one opposite to the other. So they move from busy, big DC to a small town somewhere with nothing going on. Maybe they grew up in such a small town and have romantic memories of the past. But they fail to realize that their time in DC has changed them. An entire new world of culture, theater, restaurants, educated people, diversity, walkable neighborhoods was exposed to them.

So they get to the small town and realize that they are a different person now and miss the city amenities. But here's the deal, there are many cities that are in the middle. Smaller, big cities that have every part of the DC bit city lifestyle without the rat race. Minneapolis/St Paul, Pittsburgh, and many other cities. These are hidden gems.

I'm personally from Minneapolis and people are shocked after they spend some time there about what an awesome city it is. Very progressive, abundance of arts, the most theaters per capita behind New York, everyone bikes everywhere, huge park system, large refugee populations so very diverse, excellent public schools, very family-oriented, highly educated people that are very well read and well-traveled. Yet people are nice, life is not all about work, and you aren't in two hours of traffic a day.

The point is that there are some great cities that have the good parts of DC without the bad parts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem with so many of these types of stories is that people go from one opposite to the other. So they move from busy, big DC to a small town somewhere with nothing going on. Maybe they grew up in such a small town and have romantic memories of the past. But they fail to realize that their time in DC has changed them. An entire new world of culture, theater, restaurants, educated people, diversity, walkable neighborhoods was exposed to them.

So they get to the small town and realize that they are a different person now and miss the city amenities. But here's the deal, there are many cities that are in the middle. Smaller, big cities that have every part of the DC bit city lifestyle without the rat race. Minneapolis/St Paul, Pittsburgh, and many other cities. These are hidden gems.

I'm personally from Minneapolis and people are shocked after they spend some time there about what an awesome city it is. Very progressive, abundance of arts, the most theaters per capita behind New York, everyone bikes everywhere, huge park system, large refugee populations so very diverse, excellent public schools, very family-oriented, highly educated people that are very well read and well-traveled. Yet people are nice, life is not all about work, and you aren't in two hours of traffic a day.

The point is that there are some great cities that have the good parts of DC without the bad parts.

Yeah, except the winters totally suck.

[Anonymous]

Portland is not a small, dinky town.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with so many of these types of stories is that people go from one opposite to the other. So they move from busy, big DC to a small town somewhere with nothing going on. Maybe they grew up in such a small town and have romantic memories of the past. But they fail to realize that their time in DC has changed them. An entire new world of culture, theater, restaurants, educated people, diversity, walkable neighborhoods was exposed to them.

So they get to the small town and realize that they are a different person now and miss the city amenities. But here's the deal, there are many cities that are in the middle. Smaller, big cities that have every part of the DC bit city lifestyle without the rat race. Minneapolis/St Paul, Pittsburgh, and many other cities. These are hidden gems.

I'm personally from Minneapolis and people are shocked after they spend some time there about what an awesome city it is. Very progressive, abundance of arts, the most theaters per capita behind New York, everyone bikes everywhere, huge park system, large refugee populations so very diverse, excellent public schools, very family-oriented, highly educated people that are very well read and well-traveled. Yet people are nice, life is not all about work, and you aren't in two hours of traffic a day.

The point is that there are some great cities that have the good parts of DC without the bad parts.

Yeah, except the winters totally suck.

I've never been to Minneapolis, but I believe the winters there don't suck nearly as bad as the summers in DC.