AP vs DE?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:my kid is at UVA and took two DE classes including one instead of AP chem senior year and it was noted on her application that her rigor declined senior year. YMMV, but she also didn't take language after 10th.

And there's your answer. FWIW my DS took college chemistry one summer at NOVA and got an A. UVA took the credits but not the A. That's normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, disagree with the prior posters. Yale considers these all equal: AP, de and IB

They do not consider them equal. Student effort matters and is recognized accordingly.
The more competitive the university the more stringent their criteria. At yale, even an AP score of 5 in AP Chemistry, AP CS A, Physics 1 or 2, Macro/micro, etc... dont mean a thing. For that matter a 4 in AP English Lang and AP Lit is ignored.

They only consider a 5 in AP US history, AP English Lang, Lit, 4 or 5 in World Language, 5 in Physics C, 4 o 5 in Calc BC.

https://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/table-of-acceleration-credit/

OP is not asking about course credit, they are asking about the perception of rigor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:my kid is at UVA and took two DE classes including one instead of AP chem senior year and it was noted on her application that her rigor declined senior year. YMMV, but she also didn't take language after 10th.

And there's your answer. FWIW my DS took college chemistry one summer at NOVA and got an A. UVA took the credits but not the A. That's normal.

They'd didn't take the A because it was at NOVA. It could have been at Harvard, and they aren't transferring the grade.

You can get guaranteed admission from NOVA into UVA after 2 years at NOVA. Do you think they care that the first two years were from NOVA? No.

FWIW - I've taught several classes at NOVA and have had students from all over the country in my classes, from some of the most selective colleges in the nation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, disagree with the prior posters. Yale considers these all equal: AP, de and IB

They do not consider them equal. Student effort matters and is recognized accordingly.
The more competitive the university the more stringent their criteria. At yale, even an AP score of 5 in AP Chemistry, AP CS A, Physics 1 or 2, Macro/micro, etc... dont mean a thing. For that matter a 4 in AP English Lang and AP Lit is ignored.

They only consider a 5 in AP US history, AP English Lang, Lit, 4 or 5 in World Language, 5 in Physics C, 4 o 5 in Calc BC.

https://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/table-of-acceleration-credit/

No, you’re wrong. You’re looking at whether the kid gets credit for the classes. Quoting Yale (which confirms what I said):

Admissions officers are familiar with various types of advanced coursework, including AP, IB, A-Levels, Dual Enrollment, and others, but have no preference for one advanced curriculum over another. We also understand that the availability of advanced coursework varies significantly from school to school. For matriculating students, top scores on AP or IB exams can, in some cases, be used for the purposes of course placement or acceleration (i.e. completing the requirements for an undergraduate degree in fewer than 8 semesters). Details of the Yale College policies on acceleration are available in the Yale College Programs of Study.

Link:

https://admissions.yale.edu/faq/applying-yale-college#faq_category_page-page-14

Colleges expect students to take the most rigorous coursework accessible at their school system. Yale knows that FCPS offers AP courses, and receives a ton of FCPS applicants having taken the most challenging AP exams scoring a 4 or 5. And then they may receive a few fcps applicants who avoided taking the challenging AP course offered to them and instead enrolled in a community college DE course for a GPA bump. Who do you think they would select?

I've pointed to exactly what Yale has said. You're making a guess. The school has said they equate DE and AP classes the exact same. But, you know better, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:my kid is at UVA and took two DE classes including one instead of AP chem senior year and it was noted on her application that her rigor declined senior year. YMMV, but she also didn't take language after 10th.

And there's your answer. FWIW my DS took college chemistry one summer at NOVA and got an A. UVA took the credits but not the A. That's normal.

“Actually taking college classes is a decline in rigor” is the dumbest shit imaginable.

If DC dropped out of High School and spent the year at NOVA getting all As and was a transfer applicant instead, all of a sudden they would be a very strong applicant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, disagree with the prior posters. Yale considers these all equal: AP, de and IB

They do not consider them equal. Student effort matters and is recognized accordingly.
The more competitive the university the more stringent their criteria. At yale, even an AP score of 5 in AP Chemistry, AP CS A, Physics 1 or 2, Macro/micro, etc... dont mean a thing. For that matter a 4 in AP English Lang and AP Lit is ignored.

They only consider a 5 in AP US history, AP English Lang, Lit, 4 or 5 in World Language, 5 in Physics C, 4 o 5 in Calc BC.

https://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/table-of-acceleration-credit/

No, you’re wrong. You’re looking at whether the kid gets credit for the classes. Quoting Yale (which confirms what I said):

Admissions officers are familiar with various types of advanced coursework, including AP, IB, A-Levels, Dual Enrollment, and others, but have no preference for one advanced curriculum over another. We also understand that the availability of advanced coursework varies significantly from school to school. For matriculating students, top scores on AP or IB exams can, in some cases, be used for the purposes of course placement or acceleration (i.e. completing the requirements for an undergraduate degree in fewer than 8 semesters). Details of the Yale College policies on acceleration are available in the Yale College Programs of Study.

Link:

https://admissions.yale.edu/faq/applying-yale-college#faq_category_page-page-14

Colleges expect students to take the most rigorous coursework accessible at their school system. Yale knows that FCPS offers AP courses, and receives a ton of FCPS applicants having taken the most challenging AP exams scoring a 4 or 5. And then they may receive a few fcps applicants who avoided taking the challenging AP course offered to them and instead enrolled in a community college DE course for a GPA bump. Who do you think they would select?

I've pointed to exactly what Yale has said. You're making a guess. The school has said they equate DE and AP classes the exact same. But, you know better, right?

Logically it can’t be that the AP COURSE is better if the perception of rigor depends on the exam score. You can take AP exams without even taking the course!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:my kid is at UVA and took two DE classes including one instead of AP chem senior year and it was noted on her application that her rigor declined senior year. YMMV, but she also didn't take language after 10th.

And there's your answer. FWIW my DS took college chemistry one summer at NOVA and got an A. UVA took the credits but not the A. That's normal.

They'd didn't take the A because it was at NOVA. It could have been at Harvard, and they aren't transferring the grade.

You can get guaranteed admission from NOVA into UVA after 2 years at NOVA. Do you think they care that the first two years were from NOVA? No.

FWIW - I've taught several classes at NOVA and have had students from all over the country in my classes, from some of the most selective colleges in the nation.

transfer to UVA main campus or UVA Wise college? Wise acceptance is 83% whereas main campus is 21%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS parents , do you know is ap and de are truly treated the same for UVA and other competitive universities ?

School counselor says they are the same in terms of rigor but how do admission officers view them?

UVA main campus does not recognize dual enrollment courses from community colleges like NOVA. They do have a AP credit policy for exams http://records.ureg.virginia.edu/content.php?catoid=52&navoid=4102#Advanced_Placement_Program

The more the competitive the university the more the AP score has to be for admissions consideration. 4 or 5 minimum.

I have no idea where you're getting your info. You're 1000% incorrect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:my kid is at UVA and took two DE classes including one instead of AP chem senior year and it was noted on her application that her rigor declined senior year. YMMV, but she also didn't take language after 10th.

And there's your answer. FWIW my DS took college chemistry one summer at NOVA and got an A. UVA took the credits but not the A. That's normal.

They'd didn't take the A because it was at NOVA. It could have been at Harvard, and they aren't transferring the grade.

You can get guaranteed admission from NOVA into UVA after 2 years at NOVA. Do you think they care that the first two years were from NOVA? No.

FWIW - I've taught several classes at NOVA and have had students from all over the country in my classes, from some of the most selective colleges in the nation.

transfer to UVA main campus or UVA Wise college? Wise acceptance is 83% whereas main campus is 21%

Main campus UVA - guaranteed, if you spend 2 years at NOVA post high school, have good grades, and take certain classes and finish at NOVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, disagree with the prior posters. Yale considers these all equal: AP, de and IB

They do not consider them equal. Student effort matters and is recognized accordingly.
The more competitive the university the more stringent their criteria. At yale, even an AP score of 5 in AP Chemistry, AP CS A, Physics 1 or 2, Macro/micro, etc... dont mean a thing. For that matter a 4 in AP English Lang and AP Lit is ignored.

They only consider a 5 in AP US history, AP English Lang, Lit, 4 or 5 in World Language, 5 in Physics C, 4 o 5 in Calc BC.

https://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/table-of-acceleration-credit/

No, you’re wrong. You’re looking at whether the kid gets credit for the classes. Quoting Yale (which confirms what I said):

Admissions officers are familiar with various types of advanced coursework, including AP, IB, A-Levels, Dual Enrollment, and others, but have no preference for one advanced curriculum over another. We also understand that the availability of advanced coursework varies significantly from school to school. For matriculating students, top scores on AP or IB exams can, in some cases, be used for the purposes of course placement or acceleration (i.e. completing the requirements for an undergraduate degree in fewer than 8 semesters). Details of the Yale College policies on acceleration are available in the Yale College Programs of Study.

Link:

https://admissions.yale.edu/faq/applying-yale-college#faq_category_page-page-14

Colleges expect students to take the most rigorous coursework accessible at their school system. Yale knows that FCPS offers AP courses, and receives a ton of FCPS applicants having taken the most challenging AP exams scoring a 4 or 5. And then they may receive a few fcps applicants who avoided taking the challenging AP course offered to them and instead enrolled in a community college DE course for a GPA bump. Who do you think they would select?

I've pointed to exactly what Yale has said. You're making a guess. The school has said they equate DE and AP classes the exact same. But, you know better, right?

Top 10% of FCPS take the most rigorous APs. Once they have all their 4s and 5s accomplished, then go for post AP DE classes. Competitive universities receive applications from such top 10% from various school systems in addition to FCPS. And then there are wishful FCPS applicants trying their luck with one or two substitute DE courses for basic subjects and no worthwhile APs. Good luck to them competing with the top 10% from their own school system and others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:my kid is at UVA and took two DE classes including one instead of AP chem senior year and it was noted on her application that her rigor declined senior year. YMMV, but she also didn't take language after 10th.

And there's your answer. FWIW my DS took college chemistry one summer at NOVA and got an A. UVA took the credits but not the A. That's normal.

They'd didn't take the A because it was at NOVA. It could have been at Harvard, and they aren't transferring the grade.

You can get guaranteed admission from NOVA into UVA after 2 years at NOVA. Do you think they care that the first two years were from NOVA? No.

FWIW - I've taught several classes at NOVA and have had students from all over the country in my classes, from some of the most selective colleges in the nation.

transfer to UVA main campus or UVA Wise college? Wise acceptance is 83% whereas main campus is 21%

Main campus UVA - guaranteed, if you spend 2 years at NOVA post high school, have good grades, and take certain classes and finish at NOVA.

But that deprives the student of their first two years of experience at UVA. Most hardworking students just take rigorous APs and get admitted for a full four year experience at UVA, in a major of their choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, disagree with the prior posters. Yale considers these all equal: AP, de and IB

They do not consider them equal. Student effort matters and is recognized accordingly.
The more competitive the university the more stringent their criteria. At yale, even an AP score of 5 in AP Chemistry, AP CS A, Physics 1 or 2, Macro/micro, etc... dont mean a thing. For that matter a 4 in AP English Lang and AP Lit is ignored.

They only consider a 5 in AP US history, AP English Lang, Lit, 4 or 5 in World Language, 5 in Physics C, 4 o 5 in Calc BC.

https://catalog.yale.edu/ycps/table-of-acceleration-credit/

No, you’re wrong. You’re looking at whether the kid gets credit for the classes. Quoting Yale (which confirms what I said):

Admissions officers are familiar with various types of advanced coursework, including AP, IB, A-Levels, Dual Enrollment, and others, but have no preference for one advanced curriculum over another. We also understand that the availability of advanced coursework varies significantly from school to school. For matriculating students, top scores on AP or IB exams can, in some cases, be used for the purposes of course placement or acceleration (i.e. completing the requirements for an undergraduate degree in fewer than 8 semesters). Details of the Yale College policies on acceleration are available in the Yale College Programs of Study.

Link:

https://admissions.yale.edu/faq/applying-yale-college#faq_category_page-page-14

Colleges expect students to take the most rigorous coursework accessible at their school system. Yale knows that FCPS offers AP courses, and receives a ton of FCPS applicants having taken the most challenging AP exams scoring a 4 or 5. And then they may receive a few fcps applicants who avoided taking the challenging AP course offered to them and instead enrolled in a community college DE course for a GPA bump. Who do you think they would select?

I've pointed to exactly what Yale has said. You're making a guess. The school has said they equate DE and AP classes the exact same. But, you know better, right?

Top 10% of FCPS take the most rigorous APs. Once they have all their 4s and 5s accomplished, then go for post AP DE classes. Competitive universities receive applications from such top 10% from various school systems in addition to FCPS. And then there are wishful FCPS applicants trying their luck with one or two substitute DE courses for basic subjects and no worthwhile APs. Good luck to them competing with the top 10% from their own school system and others.

Folks, please listen up. We've found someone who knows more than the Yale admissions office. Take heed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:my kid is at UVA and took two DE classes including one instead of AP chem senior year and it was noted on her application that her rigor declined senior year. YMMV, but she also didn't take language after 10th.

And there's your answer. FWIW my DS took college chemistry one summer at NOVA and got an A. UVA took the credits but not the A. That's normal.

They'd didn't take the A because it was at NOVA. It could have been at Harvard, and they aren't transferring the grade.

You can get guaranteed admission from NOVA into UVA after 2 years at NOVA. Do you think they care that the first two years were from NOVA? No.

FWIW - I've taught several classes at NOVA and have had students from all over the country in my classes, from some of the most selective colleges in the nation.

transfer to UVA main campus or UVA Wise college? Wise acceptance is 83% whereas main campus is 21%

Main campus UVA - guaranteed, if you spend 2 years at NOVA post high school, have good grades, and take certain classes and finish at NOVA.

But that deprives the student of their first two years of experience at UVA. Most hardworking students just take rigorous APs and get admitted for a full four year experience at UVA, in a major of their choice.

It depends on what the student wants or needs: to save money on college, money isn't an issue, may not get in as a first year but wants a UVA degree, has to work during HS which limited the AP course load options, etc.

[Anonymous]

My kid thought his AP courses were much harder than the dual enrollment ones he took. And he took those at a 4 year college not a community college. So I think it depends on the course. Also there are different answers about student experience vs how different colleges value different courses. Also depends on grades/scores and subject.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS parents , do you know is ap and de are truly treated the same for UVA and other competitive universities ?

School counselor says they are the same in terms of rigor but how do admission officers view them?

I believe that in most school systems, these are DE/AP classes.
That is, you get DE credit through what university or community college the school is partnering with, and at the end of the course students have the chance to take the AP test so it counts as AP credit.
Is this not so in your school system? Check the course description. It should say:

"Upon successful completion of a DE/AP course, students receive college credit from [name of affiliated college here] and will be prepared for the AP exam which corresponds to this course"