Soccer Food for Thought, No Need To Agree or Disagree With Me.

[Anonymous]

Every single justification for the expensive pay-to-play system in America is an excuse.

If we truly can't afford it, then no country can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Europe is 3-4 years ahead of us in technique and IQ. Realistically they start their professional journey at 13-14 so if you're an American and you go over at 18 years old you have a long road to travel. Why do we think so many American universities/colleges have so many international players on rosters from that continent? Those players realized their chances of going pro there is not going to happen so they take a free education and a chance to explore America. We set our precedent for college soccer and an MLS draft for whatever reason when it clearly doesn't work for the men's side. The women's side college and the NWSL work. We limit their bar for them with college soccer.


Things like our non relegation/promotion leagues and the other leagues is a whole different conversation, a whole different post.

At 13, 14 years old there are several high level players here who can hold their own technically and physically with peers in Europe. The individual IQ levels will be close or equal for some.

The differences are that the culture, coaching, training and collective tactical understanding of the game is higher there on average.
They will have 18 kids on their EDP1 or 2 level team that are all technically proficient, have good IQ, have parents who know and understand the game and have qualified knowledgeable coacheS
The team collectively will play quicker, faster because of the higher average IQ that can absorb more complex tactical approaches.

When a kid leaves here for the first time and lands in Croatia, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain for the first time at 18, the tactical understanding deficiency is wide.
Because of the pay-to-play system (which allows a checkbook roster of who can afford it) and lack of qualified youth coaches here, we'll always be behind.

The question is whether or not anyone who doesn't have an interest in playing professionally or is associated with the national team should care. European club supported academies are great for developing kids at no or low cost to those kids. The aren't enough professional clubs in the US with the resources to fully fund boys academies (that doesn't even account for the girls side which are also subsided by club in Europe) to ever approach that here. That means pay to play.

Too Funny.
America is the richest country in the world and yet the only country in the world where soccer is out of reach to the masses because of costs.

Kids in Europe and South America aren't all at Professional Academies or clubs subsidized by Pro Clubs.
There are many levels and tiers below Pro Div1 all the way down to small grass-roots clubs.
Many pay something yearly, none of them cost an arm and a leg.

We choose expensive pay-to-play to be our 'culture'

There are free and low cost options. Anything above that requires professional coaches and decent facilities which cost money

Yes, there are free and low cost options. Also some families in Europe with a kid in what we call 'Travel' soccer are paying 200-300 Euros per year at high-cost levels.
Not thousands like we do.

When the majority of kids don't play a certain sport and when the vast majority of those who play are not very good at the sport, it costs money for teams comprised of those who are high level to form, train, and travel to play each other. If your talking about lower level travel, those kids are not going to be playing in college let alone professionally, so it really just is parents paying for an experience

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every single justification for the expensive pay-to-play system in America is an excuse.

If we truly can't afford it, then no country can.

We can afford it. Look at football. Look at very high level basketball. We just don't care enough about soccer to bother

[Anonymous]

I wish people would stop comparing the landscape here to other international countries. It would be a pipedream to try to get a system in place similar to how it is overseas. The sport just isn't popular enough at the pro level, generating the revenue needed to sustain a model like that. Beyond that the FA here isn't even interested in truly being involved in the youth game, clear evidence of that was when the DA dissolved and they put that into the hands of what is essentially private business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every single justification for the expensive pay-to-play system in America is an excuse.

If we truly can't afford it, then no country can.

We can afford it. Look at football. Look at very high level basketball. We just don't care enough about soccer to bother

Then why are thousands of kids on fields every Saturday and Sunday playing in fancy uniforms?
Why so many Soccerplexes?
Why so many tournaments?
Why so many teams in every metro area?
Why so many thousands of kids training every weekday evenings?
....if we don't care enough about soccer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wish people would stop comparing the landscape here to other international countries. It would be a pipedream to try to get a system in place similar to how it is overseas. The sport just isn't popular enough at the pro level, generating the revenue needed to sustain a model like that. Beyond that the FA here isn't even interested in truly being involved in the youth game, clear evidence of that was when the DA dissolved and they put that into the hands of what is essentially private business.

I believe the exercise in the discussion is called looking at 'best practices'
Not just let's copy everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every single justification for the expensive pay-to-play system in America is an excuse.

If we truly can't afford it, then no country can.

We can afford it. Look at football. Look at very high level basketball. We just don't care enough about soccer to bother

Then why are thousands of kids on fields every Saturday and Sunday playing in fancy uniforms?
Why so many Soccerplexes?
Why so many tournaments?
Why so many teams in every metro area?
Why so many thousands of kids training every weekday evenings?
....if we don't care enough about soccer?

That money isn't going into the pro level for local clubs like it does in Europe for them to put it back into programs. Beyond that, even here it's a struggle when you bring up FIFA solidarity/compensatory payments like they have overseas.

[Anonymous]

Slightly off topic too but it does matter and something to think about. Capitalism in Europe isn't the same as capitalism here in the states.

Youth soccer is a machine that is allowed to grow without many checks and balances. How good or bad that is depends on your perspective I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Europe is 3-4 years ahead of us in technique and IQ. Realistically they start their professional journey at 13-14 so if you're an American and you go over at 18 years old you have a long road to travel. Why do we think so many American universities/colleges have so many international players on rosters from that continent? Those players realized their chances of going pro there is not going to happen so they take a free education and a chance to explore America. We set our precedent for college soccer and an MLS draft for whatever reason when it clearly doesn't work for the men's side. The women's side college and the NWSL work. We limit their bar for them with college soccer.


Things like our non relegation/promotion leagues and the other leagues is a whole different conversation, a whole different post.

At 13, 14 years old there are several high level players here who can hold their own technically and physically with peers in Europe. The individual IQ levels will be close or equal for some.

The differences are that the culture, coaching, training and collective tactical understanding of the game is higher there on average.
They will have 18 kids on their EDP1 or 2 level team that are all technically proficient, have good IQ, have parents who know and understand the game and have qualified knowledgeable coacheS
The team collectively will play quicker, faster because of the higher average IQ that can absorb more complex tactical approaches.

When a kid leaves here for the first time and lands in Croatia, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain for the first time at 18, the tactical understanding deficiency is wide.
Because of the pay-to-play system (which allows a checkbook roster of who can afford it) and lack of qualified youth coaches here, we'll always be behind.

The question is whether or not anyone who doesn't have an interest in playing professionally or is associated with the national team should care. European club supported academies are great for developing kids at no or low cost to those kids. The aren't enough professional clubs in the US with the resources to fully fund boys academies (that doesn't even account for the girls side which are also subsided by club in Europe) to ever approach that here. That means pay to play.

I guess it depends on how you look at it. As a fan, I want to see US Soccer compete at the highest level and one day win a world cup. I think we're making progress, but it could be much better.

As a parent, I feel regardless of it's a bottom-up or a top-down approach, improvements to the pathway to pro, and overall player development helps create better programs for my children to participate in, regardless with how far they hope to make it.

As a coach, I dream of a non-pay-to-play system, a better coaching education pathway, and more fans who are interested enough in the sport to play it, have their kids play, and maybe even coach it.

I think everything gets improved as we get more competitive and generate more interest and therefor more resources.

The question is who pays? All of that coaching and those facilities cost money. As a parent, I care about my child's (who won't go pro) experience and I'm not interested in a team where a few kids subsidize the rest or spending more money to improve pro-pathways for other kids.

We'll that's the crux of the issue. Right now the parents pay, and they pay quite a bit, so if you don't want any of that to change, then OK.

More interest in the sport, especially at the highest levels, increases revenue. TV rights, ticket sales, etc. Having players who are worth something at the international level also creates revenue by being able to sell/trade them for value. Look at the way the Netherlands finances their programs.

Look we're a long way off of being the Ajax of the word, but I think improvement in one aspect of the sport can increase other areas of the sport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Slightly off topic too but it does matter and something to think about. Capitalism in Europe isn't the same as capitalism here in the states.

Youth soccer is a machine that is allowed to grow without many checks and balances. How good or bad that is depends on your perspective I guess.

If the US wasn't the only country on planet earth with a pay-to-play system/problem, many 'can't fix' arguments would hold water.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every single justification for the expensive pay-to-play system in America is an excuse.

If we truly can't afford it, then no country can.

I'm not sure I understand this argument? Coaches need to get paid. Fields need to be paid for. Referees get paid... etc. etc. where do you expect this money to come from?

[Anonymous]

If we're paying more than any other place in the world, what are we getting for our money?

If you're at a club paying $4,000 for just club fee, then gotta buy your uniforms/training gear and bring your own ball to practice plus shell out for costs of attending multiple tournaments, the least you deserve is a competent coach.

None of you would spend that money equivalent for private school if the teachers weren't qualified.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every single justification for the expensive pay-to-play system in America is an excuse.

If we truly can't afford it, then no country can.

We can afford it. Look at football. Look at very high level basketball. We just don't care enough about soccer to bother

Then why are thousands of kids on fields every Saturday and Sunday playing in fancy uniforms?
Why so many Soccerplexes?
Why so many tournaments?
Why so many teams in every metro area?
Why so many thousands of kids training every weekday evenings?
....if we don't care enough about soccer?

Because they make money. Just because parents will pay for their own kids doesn't mean there is any interest in subsidizing other kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Slightly off topic too but it does matter and something to think about. Capitalism in Europe isn't the same as capitalism here in the states.

Youth soccer is a machine that is allowed to grow without many checks and balances. How good or bad that is depends on your perspective I guess.

If the US wasn't the only country on planet earth with a pay-to-play system/problem, many 'can't fix' arguments would hold water.

How many un-athletic American kids with no chance of every playing in high school let alone college and pro play travel? In the rest of those world those kids would never sniff an academy let alone get the opportunity to wash out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If we're paying more than any other place in the world, what are we getting for our money?

If you're at a club paying $4,000 for just club fee, then gotta buy your uniforms/training gear and bring your own ball to practice plus shell out for costs of attending multiple tournaments, the least you deserve is a competent coach.

None of you would spend that money equivalent for private school if the teachers weren't qualified.

Year in and year out parents will still put their kid on the 5th travel team because they can afford it and say their child plays travel soccer.

If parents actually cared about the quality of training/environment they were getting in return we wouldn't have this many clubs and teams to navigate in the area. The number of clubs would be smaller but the quality of play would be higher.