Soccer Food for Thought, No Need To Agree or Disagree With Me.

[Anonymous]

Europe is 3-4 years ahead of us in technique and IQ. Realistically they start their professional journey at 13-14 so if you're an American and you go over at 18 years old you have a long road to travel. Why do we think so many American universities/colleges have so many international players on rosters from that continent? Those players realized their chances of going pro there is not going to happen so they take a free education and a chance to explore America. We set our precedent for college soccer and an MLS draft for whatever reason when it clearly doesn't work for the men's side. The women's side college and the NWSL work. We limit their bar for them with college soccer.


Things like our non relegation/promotion leagues and the other leagues is a whole different conversation, a whole different post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Europe is 3-4 years ahead of us in technique and IQ. Realistically they start their professional journey at 13-14 so if you're an American and you go over at 18 years old you have a long road to travel. Why do we think so many American universities/colleges have so many international players on rosters from that continent? Those players realized their chances of going pro there is not going to happen so they take a free education and a chance to explore America. We set our precedent for college soccer and an MLS draft for whatever reason when it clearly doesn't work for the men's side. The women's side college and the NWSL work. We limit their bar for them with college soccer.


Things like our non relegation/promotion leagues and the other leagues is a whole different conversation, a whole different post.

"Europe is 3-4 years ahead of us in technique and IQ"
What age range are you talking about?

[Anonymous]

Very few men's players begin their college careers with the intent on making it pro. They do it because they want to play in college. A small fraction of college players do get to the pros, but most know it's not the normal or recommended route these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Very few men's players begin their college careers with the intent on making it pro. They do it because they want to play in college. A small fraction of college players do get to the pros, but most know it's not the normal or recommended route these days.

How many former college players are currently on the USMNT roster or playing professionally in Europe?
Should be interesting data

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very few men's players begin their college careers with the intent on making it pro. They do it because they want to play in college. A small fraction of college players do get to the pros, but most know it's not the normal or recommended route these days.

How many former college players are currently on the USMNT roster or playing professionally in Europe?
Should be interesting data

Here's some: https://www.ncaa.com/news/soccer-men/article/2022-11-29/college-careers-8-usmnt-world-cup-players

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Very few men's players begin their college careers with the intent on making it pro. They do it because they want to play in college. A small fraction of college players do get to the pros, but most know it's not the normal or recommended route these days.

+1 you're right and so is op. If someone is going pro they know as a young teen. Unlike other sports they are not hoping for recruitment from college. Everyone knows that. It does happen but it's not the common path. Many kids do have hopes for playing in college which would be the highest level they hope for, especially with a scholarship.

[Anonymous]

College soccer isn't conducive to producing pro-players. At least not at an international level.

I'd argue that the US Women are going to start feeling this more as well.

The MLS Academy programs are still relatively young when compared to the rest of the world and aren't nearly enough for a country of our size and population, but at least it's something.

Most of the US sports progression has been HS->College->Pro. This works internally and is probably the right path for most kids who won't become professional athletes, but from a pure player development standpoint doesn't work as well internationally. Look at the number of international players starting to dominate in sports we've traditionally been world leaders on, now that they are starting to become popular there (basketball, baseball, etc.)

The fact is we don't really haven't had a good model in the US previously for a strictly pro development pathway like some other countries have had for decades, and most of those other systems are tied directly to their pro teams, like the MLS Academy model. I'm not as familiar with baseball but their minor league system may also be a good example.

But all of this takes money, which is where the pay-to-play model has really hurt us. The MLS only has so much to go around and the USSF has peanuts compared to some of the other FAs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Europe is 3-4 years ahead of us in technique and IQ. Realistically they start their professional journey at 13-14 so if you're an American and you go over at 18 years old you have a long road to travel. Why do we think so many American universities/colleges have so many international players on rosters from that continent? Those players realized their chances of going pro there is not going to happen so they take a free education and a chance to explore America. We set our precedent for college soccer and an MLS draft for whatever reason when it clearly doesn't work for the men's side. The women's side college and the NWSL work. We limit their bar for them with college soccer.


Things like our non relegation/promotion leagues and the other leagues is a whole different conversation, a whole different post.

At 13, 14 years old there are several high level players here who can hold their own technically and physically with peers in Europe. The individual IQ levels will be close or equal for some.

The differences are that the culture, coaching, training and collective tactical understanding of the game is higher there on average.
They will have 18 kids on their EDP1 or 2 level team that are all technically proficient, have good IQ, have parents who know and understand the game and have qualified knowledgeable coacheS
The team collectively will play quicker, faster because of the higher average IQ that can absorb more complex tactical approaches.

When a kid leaves here for the first time and lands in Croatia, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain for the first time at 18, the tactical understanding deficiency is wide.
Because of the pay-to-play system (which allows a checkbook roster of who can afford it) and lack of qualified youth coaches here, we'll always be behind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Europe is 3-4 years ahead of us in technique and IQ. Realistically they start their professional journey at 13-14 so if you're an American and you go over at 18 years old you have a long road to travel. Why do we think so many American universities/colleges have so many international players on rosters from that continent? Those players realized their chances of going pro there is not going to happen so they take a free education and a chance to explore America. We set our precedent for college soccer and an MLS draft for whatever reason when it clearly doesn't work for the men's side. The women's side college and the NWSL work. We limit their bar for them with college soccer.


Things like our non relegation/promotion leagues and the other leagues is a whole different conversation, a whole different post.

At 13, 14 years old there are several high level players here who can hold their own technically and physically with peers in Europe. The individual IQ levels will be close or equal for some.

The differences are that the culture, coaching, training and collective tactical understanding of the game is higher there on average.
They will have 18 kids on their EDP1 or 2 level team that are all technically proficient, have good IQ, have parents who know and understand the game and have qualified knowledgeable coacheS
The team collectively will play quicker, faster because of the higher average IQ that can absorb more complex tactical approaches.

When a kid leaves here for the first time and lands in Croatia, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain for the first time at 18, the tactical understanding deficiency is wide.
Because of the pay-to-play system (which allows a checkbook roster of who can afford it) and lack of qualified youth coaches here, we'll always be behind.

The question is whether or not anyone who doesn't have an interest in playing professionally or is associated with the national team should care. European club supported academies are great for developing kids at no or low cost to those kids. The aren't enough professional clubs in the US with the resources to fully fund boys academies (that doesn't even account for the girls side which are also subsided by club in Europe) to ever approach that here. That means pay to play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Europe is 3-4 years ahead of us in technique and IQ. Realistically they start their professional journey at 13-14 so if you're an American and you go over at 18 years old you have a long road to travel. Why do we think so many American universities/colleges have so many international players on rosters from that continent? Those players realized their chances of going pro there is not going to happen so they take a free education and a chance to explore America. We set our precedent for college soccer and an MLS draft for whatever reason when it clearly doesn't work for the men's side. The women's side college and the NWSL work. We limit their bar for them with college soccer.


Things like our non relegation/promotion leagues and the other leagues is a whole different conversation, a whole different post.

At 13, 14 years old there are several high level players here who can hold their own technically and physically with peers in Europe. The individual IQ levels will be close or equal for some.

The differences are that the culture, coaching, training and collective tactical understanding of the game is higher there on average.
They will have 18 kids on their EDP1 or 2 level team that are all technically proficient, have good IQ, have parents who know and understand the game and have qualified knowledgeable coacheS
The team collectively will play quicker, faster because of the higher average IQ that can absorb more complex tactical approaches.

When a kid leaves here for the first time and lands in Croatia, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain for the first time at 18, the tactical understanding deficiency is wide.
Because of the pay-to-play system (which allows a checkbook roster of who can afford it) and lack of qualified youth coaches here, we'll always be behind.

The question is whether or not anyone who doesn't have an interest in playing professionally or is associated with the national team should care. European club supported academies are great for developing kids at no or low cost to those kids. The aren't enough professional clubs in the US with the resources to fully fund boys academies (that doesn't even account for the girls side which are also subsided by club in Europe) to ever approach that here. That means pay to play.

I guess it depends on how you look at it. As a fan, I want to see US Soccer compete at the highest level and one day win a world cup. I think we're making progress, but it could be much better.

As a parent, I feel regardless of it's a bottom-up or a top-down approach, improvements to the pathway to pro, and overall player development helps create better programs for my children to participate in, regardless with how far they hope to make it.

As a coach, I dream of a non-pay-to-play system, a better coaching education pathway, and more fans who are interested enough in the sport to play it, have their kids play, and maybe even coach it.

I think everything gets improved as we get more competitive and generate more interest and therefor more resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Europe is 3-4 years ahead of us in technique and IQ. Realistically they start their professional journey at 13-14 so if you're an American and you go over at 18 years old you have a long road to travel. Why do we think so many American universities/colleges have so many international players on rosters from that continent? Those players realized their chances of going pro there is not going to happen so they take a free education and a chance to explore America. We set our precedent for college soccer and an MLS draft for whatever reason when it clearly doesn't work for the men's side. The women's side college and the NWSL work. We limit their bar for them with college soccer.


Things like our non relegation/promotion leagues and the other leagues is a whole different conversation, a whole different post.

At 13, 14 years old there are several high level players here who can hold their own technically and physically with peers in Europe. The individual IQ levels will be close or equal for some.

The differences are that the culture, coaching, training and collective tactical understanding of the game is higher there on average.
They will have 18 kids on their EDP1 or 2 level team that are all technically proficient, have good IQ, have parents who know and understand the game and have qualified knowledgeable coacheS
The team collectively will play quicker, faster because of the higher average IQ that can absorb more complex tactical approaches.

When a kid leaves here for the first time and lands in Croatia, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain for the first time at 18, the tactical understanding deficiency is wide.
Because of the pay-to-play system (which allows a checkbook roster of who can afford it) and lack of qualified youth coaches here, we'll always be behind.

The question is whether or not anyone who doesn't have an interest in playing professionally or is associated with the national team should care. European club supported academies are great for developing kids at no or low cost to those kids. The aren't enough professional clubs in the US with the resources to fully fund boys academies (that doesn't even account for the girls side which are also subsided by club in Europe) to ever approach that here. That means pay to play.

Too Funny.
America is the richest country in the world and yet the only country in the world where soccer is out of reach to the masses because of costs.

Kids in Europe and South America aren't all at Professional Academies or clubs subsidized by Pro Clubs.
There are many levels and tiers below Pro Div1 all the way down to small grass-roots clubs.
Many pay something yearly, none of them cost an arm and a leg.

We choose expensive pay-to-play to be our 'culture'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Europe is 3-4 years ahead of us in technique and IQ. Realistically they start their professional journey at 13-14 so if you're an American and you go over at 18 years old you have a long road to travel. Why do we think so many American universities/colleges have so many international players on rosters from that continent? Those players realized their chances of going pro there is not going to happen so they take a free education and a chance to explore America. We set our precedent for college soccer and an MLS draft for whatever reason when it clearly doesn't work for the men's side. The women's side college and the NWSL work. We limit their bar for them with college soccer.


Things like our non relegation/promotion leagues and the other leagues is a whole different conversation, a whole different post.

At 13, 14 years old there are several high level players here who can hold their own technically and physically with peers in Europe. The individual IQ levels will be close or equal for some.

The differences are that the culture, coaching, training and collective tactical understanding of the game is higher there on average.
They will have 18 kids on their EDP1 or 2 level team that are all technically proficient, have good IQ, have parents who know and understand the game and have qualified knowledgeable coacheS
The team collectively will play quicker, faster because of the higher average IQ that can absorb more complex tactical approaches.

When a kid leaves here for the first time and lands in Croatia, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain for the first time at 18, the tactical understanding deficiency is wide.
Because of the pay-to-play system (which allows a checkbook roster of who can afford it) and lack of qualified youth coaches here, we'll always be behind.

The question is whether or not anyone who doesn't have an interest in playing professionally or is associated with the national team should care. European club supported academies are great for developing kids at no or low cost to those kids. The aren't enough professional clubs in the US with the resources to fully fund boys academies (that doesn't even account for the girls side which are also subsided by club in Europe) to ever approach that here. That means pay to play.

I guess it depends on how you look at it. As a fan, I want to see US Soccer compete at the highest level and one day win a world cup. I think we're making progress, but it could be much better.

As a parent, I feel regardless of it's a bottom-up or a top-down approach, improvements to the pathway to pro, and overall player development helps create better programs for my children to participate in, regardless with how far they hope to make it.

As a coach, I dream of a non-pay-to-play system, a better coaching education pathway, and more fans who are interested enough in the sport to play it, have their kids play, and maybe even coach it.

I think everything gets improved as we get more competitive and generate more interest and therefor more resources.

The question is who pays? All of that coaching and those facilities cost money. As a parent, I care about my child's (who won't go pro) experience and I'm not interested in a team where a few kids subsidize the rest or spending more money to improve pro-pathways for other kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Europe is 3-4 years ahead of us in technique and IQ. Realistically they start their professional journey at 13-14 so if you're an American and you go over at 18 years old you have a long road to travel. Why do we think so many American universities/colleges have so many international players on rosters from that continent? Those players realized their chances of going pro there is not going to happen so they take a free education and a chance to explore America. We set our precedent for college soccer and an MLS draft for whatever reason when it clearly doesn't work for the men's side. The women's side college and the NWSL work. We limit their bar for them with college soccer.


Things like our non relegation/promotion leagues and the other leagues is a whole different conversation, a whole different post.

At 13, 14 years old there are several high level players here who can hold their own technically and physically with peers in Europe. The individual IQ levels will be close or equal for some.

The differences are that the culture, coaching, training and collective tactical understanding of the game is higher there on average.
They will have 18 kids on their EDP1 or 2 level team that are all technically proficient, have good IQ, have parents who know and understand the game and have qualified knowledgeable coacheS
The team collectively will play quicker, faster because of the higher average IQ that can absorb more complex tactical approaches.

When a kid leaves here for the first time and lands in Croatia, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain for the first time at 18, the tactical understanding deficiency is wide.
Because of the pay-to-play system (which allows a checkbook roster of who can afford it) and lack of qualified youth coaches here, we'll always be behind.

The question is whether or not anyone who doesn't have an interest in playing professionally or is associated with the national team should care. European club supported academies are great for developing kids at no or low cost to those kids. The aren't enough professional clubs in the US with the resources to fully fund boys academies (that doesn't even account for the girls side which are also subsided by club in Europe) to ever approach that here. That means pay to play.

Too Funny.
America is the richest country in the world and yet the only country in the world where soccer is out of reach to the masses because of costs.

Kids in Europe and South America aren't all at Professional Academies or clubs subsidized by Pro Clubs.
There are many levels and tiers below Pro Div1 all the way down to small grass-roots clubs.
Many pay something yearly, none of them cost an arm and a leg.

We choose expensive pay-to-play to be our 'culture'

There are free and low cost options. Anything above that requires professional coaches and decent facilities which cost money

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Europe is 3-4 years ahead of us in technique and IQ. Realistically they start their professional journey at 13-14 so if you're an American and you go over at 18 years old you have a long road to travel. Why do we think so many American universities/colleges have so many international players on rosters from that continent? Those players realized their chances of going pro there is not going to happen so they take a free education and a chance to explore America. We set our precedent for college soccer and an MLS draft for whatever reason when it clearly doesn't work for the men's side. The women's side college and the NWSL work. We limit their bar for them with college soccer.


Things like our non relegation/promotion leagues and the other leagues is a whole different conversation, a whole different post.

At 13, 14 years old there are several high level players here who can hold their own technically and physically with peers in Europe. The individual IQ levels will be close or equal for some.

The differences are that the culture, coaching, training and collective tactical understanding of the game is higher there on average.
They will have 18 kids on their EDP1 or 2 level team that are all technically proficient, have good IQ, have parents who know and understand the game and have qualified knowledgeable coacheS
The team collectively will play quicker, faster because of the higher average IQ that can absorb more complex tactical approaches.

When a kid leaves here for the first time and lands in Croatia, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain for the first time at 18, the tactical understanding deficiency is wide.
Because of the pay-to-play system (which allows a checkbook roster of who can afford it) and lack of qualified youth coaches here, we'll always be behind.

The question is whether or not anyone who doesn't have an interest in playing professionally or is associated with the national team should care. European club supported academies are great for developing kids at no or low cost to those kids. The aren't enough professional clubs in the US with the resources to fully fund boys academies (that doesn't even account for the girls side which are also subsided by club in Europe) to ever approach that here. That means pay to play.

Too Funny.
America is the richest country in the world and yet the only country in the world where soccer is out of reach to the masses because of costs.

Kids in Europe and South America aren't all at Professional Academies or clubs subsidized by Pro Clubs.
There are many levels and tiers below Pro Div1 all the way down to small grass-roots clubs.
Many pay something yearly, none of them cost an arm and a leg.

We choose expensive pay-to-play to be our 'culture'

There are free and low cost options. Anything above that requires professional coaches and decent facilities which cost money

Yes, there are free and low cost options. Also some families in Europe with a kid in what we call 'Travel' soccer are paying 200-300 Euros per year at high-cost levels.
Not thousands like we do.

[Anonymous]

HS->College->Pro

In the US, Education is far more important than soccer. Do you ever think Argentina or Croatia will be a world power based on their soccer skills? Education is king.