Mathnasium worth it? Not working for us..

[Anonymous]

Get a private tutor. We use Prep Matters. It's expensive, but effective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live outside the DMV. I have both of my high school kids in Mathnasium at the 2x week 90 minute lesson level (about $700/month). I put my kids in to overcome a substandard, non-tracked elementary math curriculum plus the lost curriculum time due to the pandemic.

One kid is like me - normally a good student but really doesn't "get" math. Doesn't study as much as he should for math tests and has a tendency to do very poorly. The other kid is better at math but lacked accuracy and formal knowledge so couldn't do some on-grade level things by 7th grade. Both were in accelerated math tracking starting in 6th grade (algebra in 8th, leading to calculus senior year). In my opinion, Mathnasium was able to help them over time (years) in a somewhat systematic manner at great expense. In my situation, retaining my local Mathnasium has unique advantages because the kids can get themselves to the center after school and walk home from the center. Also the center's owner/director is a very personable young man whom my sons enjoy working with.

I think my advice will not be completely relevant to you because I think your kids likely hate math more than mine since they are flunking. But maybe it will help some:

Mathnasium Pros:
-No drill sheet homework
-No parental monitoring (not Kumon)
-Goal of making kids like math
-Tutors will help with class homework & test review

Mathnasium Cons:
-Learning plan often includes some rare skills that are grade-appropriate but are not necessarily what your kid most needs to work on at that time (e.g., compound interest)
-Curriculum goes up to trigonometry/second algebra class level and has some SAT units BUT in my opinion the program is strongest for elementary ages up to maybe first algebra class. There are few kids older than late elementary at my kids' center. My senior takes his calculus work there, but they really aren't set up to teach that - they just can improvise a little to get him what he needs.
-A long enrollment (6 months to 1 year) would probably be needed to see results.

Now some recommendations:

1) You should try to figure out what the source is of each child's issues and what will motivate them to do better. This can involve getting inputs from multiple sources (kid themselves, Mathnasium, classroom teacher, any remedial/tutoring service your school offers, guidance counselor).

2) Your children may need more practice. Kids who don't like math usually don't want to practice and it can be hard for parents who have forgotten most of high school math to help. However, I have two recommendations: Khan Academy (free) and ixl.com (IXL) (paid).

If you are able to do some monitoring of your children working/practicing you may be able to ensure that they complete more material in the areas of their classroom studies or Mathnasium remedial work. At one point, my kids' middle school made IXL available to all students and it was free. I also paid for a one-year subscription one time. If you have friends to share costs, there are inexpensive small group classroom licences.

In order to make a decision about leaving Mathnasium, I think you should have a sit-down meeting with the center director and ask for their feedback on your kids' progress (not just the canned reports). You do probably need more help quicker. They can modify their templated programs somewhat. Directly asking may improve the value/support you are getting.

If you don't mind the cost of ixl.com, sign up for a math subscription for two children (each child needs a unique id to track their skill completion) and make them do 30 minutes a day. Even a year of IXL at full price is cheaper than one month of Mathnasium. The program tests them and suggests modules that go with the grade level that you set it on. The explanations of how to solve problems are about the same as Khan Academy but there are no videos (I prefer this) and the parent progress tracking is superior. I think anyone college-educated could probably use a child's curriculum/syllabus/homework to steer the child towards the most relevant practice modules while still letting the program track progress and suggest modules.

I ended up dropping IXL after one year and going with Mathasium because I didn't have time to enforce regular daily IXL and I wanted my kids to have homework help. IXL was still relatively worth it. The diagnostic results were similar to Mathnasium's.

3) Remind them that summer school is a risk. Most kids don't want to do that. In fact, if they are really flunking now, they might already be headed for summer school - so make sure you know what options they will have. If they don't have to go to summer school, they should do more IXL or Mathnasium in the summer if they really are lacking skills. (Like my 7th grader who couldn't remember how to do long division by hand at all.)

If you have any other questions, please ask. I will check back.

Summer school is not for kids that fail one class but are passing their other classes. Summer school is for kids who are failing multiple classes and need extra credit to graduate.

Wrong. Summer school is for kids that fail one class, fail multiple classes, are doing well, or those who want to get ahead etc.

My kids were high performers and each summer I signed them up for one week of intense Math course work in a summer camp. This was in ES and MS. They took three Math courses - courses they had already taken for past two years and the course they were going to take in the upcoming school year. I did not want to spend too much money on enrichment but I wanted to make sure that they were reviewing their Math and also preparing for the next year.

Math is a skill. It can be taught to anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both kids are failing math- 9th grader, algebra 1 and 10th grader, algebra 2. I sent them to mathnasium a couple of months and it’s not helping.

Mathnasium has a system of sort, steps, which may have helped if we started in 7th grade but it’s not helping now with quizzes and tests. They have both kids in a foundation level (meets 2x a week per our contract) that seems far behind and impossible to catch up to the level of their current class level. Should I just drop it? So expensive but a private tutor would be more. We need a tutor, I feel 3x week.
Recommendation how to move forward. The kids just don’t get the concepts, they have short term memory too- coupled with a shitty teen attitude, I’m at a loss.

Oh no, oh no! You have started shockingly late. If they are struggling in Algebra 1 and 2, there is no way that your kids were ever great at Math in ES or MS - so you are waking up only now?

Mathnasium cannot help you immediately with the Algebra 1 and Algebra 2 content because your kids are so far behind with Math and pre-algebra. It will take them the time it will take to bring them up to speed. I shudder to think what your kid will do junior year. It is rough.

If your kids work very hard every single day, and you also work very hard with them every single day, and maybe private tutor works very hard with them a few day, there is a chance that your kids can catch up in a few months.

Because you mentioned the cost - my low cost but very effective suggestion to you is to buy this course by James Seller
- https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/mastering-the-fundamentals-of-mathematics.html

Do at least two lessons per day. Do the course work too. Then progress to Algebra 1 and Algebra 2. These courses may be available in your local library too for free. In any case, every year there is an annual end of year sale and you can get these courses for cheap. I bought all the courses for my kids and I learned the material too. Do not skip chapters even if they seem very basic.

These courses are for people who are bad in Math and do not have a grasp of concepts.

Kids are supposed to be taking algebra 1 in ninth grade, geometry as a sophomore, and algebra 2 junior year. Lots of kids in the DMV are on the advanced math track and take algebra in middle school but OP’s kids are not that far behind.

No, the first PP is correct. It's not the track that's important, it's the fact they're failing. If they were on a lower track, they wouldn't be doing great either. OP has been a shitty parent so far regarding math (sorry, OP, I'm sure you're a great parent elsewhere!), if he or she didn't wake up in time to prevent two kids failing at math in high school. Math builds on itself. The signs are obvious before it comes to failing. I know I've been criticized for saying this, but in math, if you don't get at least a low A every quarter, you haven't really mastered the concepts, which means that next year's math won't be well understood unless you put in some really hard work instead of continuing to coast slowly downhill. Accumulate a few years like this, and you end up "not being good at math", when in reality, you missed some key concepts early on that were just papered over.

Just a heads up, OP, academics are key to not spending too much on college. UVA and UMD are selective schools now, I know students with a weighted GPA of over 4 (with multiple APs, solid extra-curriculars, etc) who were rejected from UMD, which is less selective than UVA. If you want your kids to not cost you above a state tuition, they need to have a decent GPA, even for state schools other than flagship colleges. And if you're looking at out of state or private institutions, you're not going to get merit aid if your kids are failing at basic math. Strong academics in high school equals cheaper college. Consider that expensive tutors can go up to $250/hr or more. But some private universities are now more than $90K a year, total cost of attendance. UMD is $30K a year. UVA $40K.

Pay the damm tutor.

[Anonymous]

Our son was having difficulty in algebra and we put him in mathnasium. Like you, we were originally frustrated because what he was doing in mathnasium did not line up with what he was doing at school and not really helping him on tests and quizzes. I spoke to mathnasium and they told us to email them what he is working on prior to his sessions and they would help him with similar material.

I can’t remember when it was in the year but he caught up at some point where his mathnasium material matched the work he was doing at school and he got an A+ on his final.

We literally sent our son every available slot we could put him in. I want to say he went 3x per week.

My friend also put her son in mathnasium. He ended up with a B. Without mathnasium, he may have gotten a C or D.

What I do like about mathnasium is that they do assessments and can tell you where you are weak and need to work on. By the end of the school year, my son was doing well on mathnasium assessments and also in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our son was having difficulty in algebra and we put him in mathnasium. Like you, we were originally frustrated because what he was doing in mathnasium did not line up with what he was doing at school and not really helping him on tests and quizzes. I spoke to mathnasium and they told us to email them what he is working on prior to his sessions and they would help him with similar material.

I can’t remember when it was in the year but he caught up at some point where his mathnasium material matched the work he was doing at school and he got an A+ on his final.

We literally sent our son every available slot we could put him in. I want to say he went 3x per week.

My friend also put her son in mathnasium. He ended up with a B. Without mathnasium, he may have gotten a C or D.

What I do like about mathnasium is that they do assessments and can tell you where you are weak and need to work on. By the end of the school year, my son was doing well on mathnasium assessments and also in school.

I am the PP not from DMV on Page 1. This poster's experience tracks with mine. Mathnasium is a franchise and that comes with standardized ways of assessing kids as well as practice materials. However, the company's values seem to be kid friendly and as I've mentioned and poster above mentioned, you can get customized assistance if you ask for it. Make sure your kids are showing their textbook unit, web textbook, coursepack, and homework to the Mathnasium staff and ask that the practices blend foundational material and "right now" material.

If you have your kids do IXL, their assessment will very likely show what Mathnasium's does (e.g., weakness with multiplying fractions). Since Mathnasium doesn't prescribe homework, you have to get it elsewhere.

My dad paid my younger sister by the problem to do enriched math and she ended up being a civil engineer, LOL. Wish there was an incentive program like that when I was a kid suffering through Robert Frost Middle's crappy pre-algebra class in distracting open concept (no walls) floorplan with sourpuss teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would only use systems like Mathnasium to supplement.

If your children are having trouble, they need a tutor who will work on the specific challenges they are having. Someone who can help with homework and studying.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both kids are failing math- 9th grader, algebra 1 and 10th grader, algebra 2. I sent them to mathnasium a couple of months and it’s not helping.

Mathnasium has a system of sort, steps, which may have helped if we started in 7th grade but it’s not helping now with quizzes and tests. They have both kids in a foundation level (meets 2x a week per our contract) that seems far behind and impossible to catch up to the level of their current class level. Should I just drop it? So expensive but a private tutor would be more. We need a tutor, I feel 3x week.
Recommendation how to move forward. The kids just don’t get the concepts, they have short term memory too- coupled with a shitty teen attitude, I’m at a loss.

Oh no, oh no! You have started shockingly late. If they are struggling in Algebra 1 and 2, there is no way that your kids were ever great at Math in ES or MS - so you are waking up only now?

Mathnasium cannot help you immediately with the Algebra 1 and Algebra 2 content because your kids are so far behind with Math and pre-algebra. It will take them the time it will take to bring them up to speed. I shudder to think what your kid will do junior year. It is rough.

If your kids work very hard every single day, and you also work very hard with them every single day, and maybe private tutor works very hard with them a few day, there is a chance that your kids can catch up in a few months.

Because you mentioned the cost - my low cost but very effective suggestion to you is to buy this course by James Seller
- https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/mastering-the-fundamentals-of-mathematics.html

Do at least two lessons per day. Do the course work too. Then progress to Algebra 1 and Algebra 2. These courses may be available in your local library too for free. In any case, every year there is an annual end of year sale and you can get these courses for cheap. I bought all the courses for my kids and I learned the material too. Do not skip chapters even if they seem very basic.

These courses are for people who are bad in Math and do not have a grasp of concepts.

Kids are supposed to be taking algebra 1 in ninth grade, geometry as a sophomore, and algebra 2 junior year. Lots of kids in the DMV are on the advanced math track and take algebra in middle school but OP’s kids are not that far behind.

No, the first PP is correct. It's not the track that's important, it's the fact they're failing. If they were on a lower track, they wouldn't be doing great either. OP has been a shitty parent so far regarding math (sorry, OP, I'm sure you're a great parent elsewhere!), if he or she didn't wake up in time to prevent two kids failing at math in high school. Math builds on itself. The signs are obvious before it comes to failing. I know I've been criticized for saying this, but in math, if you don't get at least a low A every quarter, you haven't really mastered the concepts, which means that next year's math won't be well understood unless you put in some really hard work instead of continuing to coast slowly downhill. Accumulate a few years like this, and you end up "not being good at math", when in reality, you missed some key concepts early on that were just papered over.

Just a heads up, OP, academics are key to not spending too much on college. UVA and UMD are selective schools now, I know students with a weighted GPA of over 4 (with multiple APs, solid extra-curriculars, etc) who were rejected from UMD, which is less selective than UVA. If you want your kids to not cost you above a state tuition, they need to have a decent GPA, even for state schools other than flagship colleges. And if you're looking at out of state or private institutions, you're not going to get merit aid if your kids are failing at basic math. Strong academics in high school equals cheaper college. Consider that expensive tutors can go up to $250/hr or more. But some private universities are now more than $90K a year, total cost of attendance. UMD is $30K a year. UVA $40K.

Pay the damm tutor.

This comment went way off the rails. You can get low in-state tuition in the Maryland/VA state and community college systems.
UMD-CP and Charlottesville//Blacksburg aren't the only public colleges.

[Anonymous]

They need a tutor to work with them on the specific topics in class. But the issue is your kids if they have a negative attitude and are going through the motions to try to get through instead of actually learning. I see it every day. Parents pay $$$$. Kids don’t want to be there. They won’t come to the teacher for extra help and in class say they don’t have to work because they will do it later with a tutor. It’s frustrating and what they really need is to mature. -math teacher and parent of two teens who also are struggling in math and don’t want to work with me or their teachers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They need a tutor to work with them on the specific topics in class. But the issue is your kids if they have a negative attitude and are going through the motions to try to get through instead of actually learning. I see it every day. Parents pay $$$$. Kids don’t want to be there. They won’t come to the teacher for extra help and in class say they don’t have to work because they will do it later with a tutor. It’s frustrating and what they really need is to mature. -math teacher and parent of two teens who also are struggling in math and don’t want to work with me or their teachers

Yep, attitude is going to make or break you on math. You just can't go through the motions. If you don't truly learn the material (vs. just getting by), you'll fall further and further behind because things builds off each other. My daughter is in Algebra-1 and started off really well but dropped to 80%'ish when they really started digging into more complex applications of the line equation. That's not a bad grade (not great obviously), but I knew if she was struggling with the 20% she wasn't getting right, her command of math in general would cumulatively degrade. So, I had some drama-filled sessions with her (i.e., her attitude wasn't great because she was used to going through the motions and doing well) to really own what y=mx+b is doing and how to apply it in story problems. Because she truly learned that material, she's doing really well now while many of her classmates are really struggling (math teacher said this was the time of year/material when things get pretty hard and grades drop off). So there was a bit of positive reinforcement there that helped a bit with the attitude. I'll keep refreshing my math skills on YouTube and ChatGPT until I can't keep up any more (e.g., no way I'm going to torture myself re-learning trig). Tutors are one part of the equation, but it's key to somehow get them to care to really learn it.

[Anonymous]

If it's not working for your kids, you have your answer.

Sounds like a good private tutor would be a better option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They need a tutor to work with them on the specific topics in class. But the issue is your kids if they have a negative attitude and are going through the motions to try to get through instead of actually learning. I see it every day. Parents pay $$$$. Kids don’t want to be there. They won’t come to the teacher for extra help and in class say they don’t have to work because they will do it later with a tutor. It’s frustrating and what they really need is to mature. -math teacher and parent of two teens who also are struggling in math and don’t want to work with me or their teachers

Yep, attitude is going to make or break you on math. You just can't go through the motions. If you don't truly learn the material (vs. just getting by), you'll fall further and further behind because things builds off each other. My daughter is in Algebra-1 and started off really well but dropped to 80%'ish when they really started digging into more complex applications of the line equation. That's not a bad grade (not great obviously), but I knew if she was struggling with the 20% she wasn't getting right, her command of math in general would cumulatively degrade. So, I had some drama-filled sessions with her (i.e., her attitude wasn't great because she was used to going through the motions and doing well) to really own what y=mx+b is doing and how to apply it in story problems. Because she truly learned that material, she's doing really well now while many of her classmates are really struggling (math teacher said this was the time of year/material when things get pretty hard and grades drop off). So there was a bit of positive reinforcement there that helped a bit with the attitude. I'll keep refreshing my math skills on YouTube and ChatGPT until I can't keep up any more (e.g., no way I'm going to torture myself re-learning trig). Tutors are one part of the equation, but it's key to somehow get them to care to really learn it.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both kids are failing math- 9th grader, algebra 1 and 10th grader, algebra 2. I sent them to mathnasium a couple of months and it’s not helping.

Mathnasium has a system of sort, steps, which may have helped if we started in 7th grade but it’s not helping now with quizzes and tests. They have both kids in a foundation level (meets 2x a week per our contract) that seems far behind and impossible to catch up to the level of their current class level. Should I just drop it? So expensive but a private tutor would be more. We need a tutor, I feel 3x week.
Recommendation how to move forward. The kids just don’t get the concepts, they have short term memory too- coupled with a shitty teen attitude, I’m at a loss.

Oh no, oh no! You have started shockingly late. If they are struggling in Algebra 1 and 2, there is no way that your kids were ever great at Math in ES or MS - so you are waking up only now?

Mathnasium cannot help you immediately with the Algebra 1 and Algebra 2 content because your kids are so far behind with Math and pre-algebra. It will take them the time it will take to bring them up to speed. I shudder to think what your kid will do junior year. It is rough.

If your kids work very hard every single day, and you also work very hard with them every single day, and maybe private tutor works very hard with them a few day, there is a chance that your kids can catch up in a few months.

Because you mentioned the cost - my low cost but very effective suggestion to you is to buy this course by James Seller
- https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/mastering-the-fundamentals-of-mathematics.html

Do at least two lessons per day. Do the course work too. Then progress to Algebra 1 and Algebra 2. These courses may be available in your local library too for free. In any case, every year there is an annual end of year sale and you can get these courses for cheap. I bought all the courses for my kids and I learned the material too. Do not skip chapters even if they seem very basic.

These courses are for people who are bad in Math and do not have a grasp of concepts.

Kids are supposed to be taking algebra 1 in ninth grade, geometry as a sophomore, and algebra 2 junior year. Lots of kids in the DMV are on the advanced math track and take algebra in middle school but OP’s kids are not that far behind.

No, the first PP is correct. It's not the track that's important, it's the fact they're failing. If they were on a lower track, they wouldn't be doing great either. OP has been a shitty parent so far regarding math (sorry, OP, I'm sure you're a great parent elsewhere!), if he or she didn't wake up in time to prevent two kids failing at math in high school. Math builds on itself. The signs are obvious before it comes to failing. I know I've been criticized for saying this, but in math, if you don't get at least a low A every quarter, you haven't really mastered the concepts, which means that next year's math won't be well understood unless you put in some really hard work instead of continuing to coast slowly downhill. Accumulate a few years like this, and you end up "not being good at math", when in reality, you missed some key concepts early on that were just papered over.

Just a heads up, OP, academics are key to not spending too much on college. UVA and UMD are selective schools now, I know students with a weighted GPA of over 4 (with multiple APs, solid extra-curriculars, etc) who were rejected from UMD, which is less selective than UVA. If you want your kids to not cost you above a state tuition, they need to have a decent GPA, even for state schools other than flagship colleges. And if you're looking at out of state or private institutions, you're not going to get merit aid if your kids are failing at basic math. Strong academics in high school equals cheaper college. Consider that expensive tutors can go up to $250/hr or more. But some private universities are now more than $90K a year, total cost of attendance. UMD is $30K a year. UVA $40K.

Pay the damm tutor.

Is this a joke or does this person live in such a bubble that they think that kids who are struggling in math are on any sort of path to a $90K a year private college?

Mathnasium is great but it only works for kids who want to improve. Good luck to the OP.

[Anonymous]

+1 to private tutoring to efficiently fill in the concepts they don't understand. I wonder if they were passed along in their pre-algebra classes without having mastered the content.

[Anonymous]

Mathnasium follows a script that works, but it's too late for that. As you pointed out, it'll never catch up to the classwork. You need a tutor...a good one who can assess, improvise, and teach them the core concepts/building blocks in a way that will stick.

[Anonymous]

Russian School of Math might be better. I used it for my son when he was in 7th grade and it helped.