Mathnasium worth it? Not working for us..

[Anonymous]

Both kids are failing math- 9th grader, algebra 1 and 10th grader, algebra 2. I sent them to mathnasium a couple of months and it’s not helping.

Mathnasium has a system of sort, steps, which may have helped if we started in 7th grade but it’s not helping now with quizzes and tests. They have both kids in a foundation level (meets 2x a week per our contract) that seems far behind and impossible to catch up to the level of their current class level. Should I just drop it? So expensive but a private tutor would be more. We need a tutor, I feel 3x week.
Recommendation how to move forward. The kids just don’t get the concepts, they have short term memory too- coupled with a shitty teen attitude, I’m at a loss.

[Anonymous]

Don’t know how to advise you as I used Mathnasium for both of my kids successfully. But I did so at the elementary level, not high school. So it might be that their method is less effective at helping kids catch up at that age and grade?

I will also say the problem might not be Mathnasium, but your kids. I spent a crazy amount of money on a private tutor but it didn’t help my kids with math as a teen. What helped was them getting their ass kicked enough and me holding them accountable with consequences for them to get over their shitty attitude and push through the learning curve and making the commitment to invest the necessary practice time to get good at math.

The problem I see with most kids who struggle with math at the high school level is their negative attitude and lack of willingness to put in the practice hours to get good. A tutor might help with that but they also might not. Your kid really holds the keys here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t know how to advise you as I used Mathnasium for both of my kids successfully. But I did so at the elementary level, not high school. So it might be that their method is less effective at helping kids catch up at that age and grade?

I will also say the problem might not be Mathnasium, but your kids. I spent a crazy amount of money on a private tutor but it didn’t help my kids with math as a teen. What helped was them getting their ass kicked enough and me holding them accountable with consequences for them to get over their shitty attitude and push through the learning curve and making the commitment to invest the necessary practice time to get good at math.

The problem I see with most kids who struggle with math at the high school level is their negative attitude and lack of willingness to put in the practice hours to get good. A tutor might help with that but they also might not. Your kid really holds the keys here.

Not always. I had trouble with a specific math class in high school. I had never needed help or tutoring for anything. But this math I could not get. I got a tutor, did all the work and with that help I got a C. I would have failed if I didn’t get help on the specific class work because I just couldn’t do it. Statistics is hard for me too and it was required so I had to do it.

I started out strong in math even though I never liked it. It got harder every year. Make sure your two kids are in the appropriate class and not above their ability. A tutor would help more so because they will help specifically with your kids homework and class work. Also ask the teacher if she has open times where students can come in and get help.

[Anonymous]

I would quit and hire an older high school or college student to tutor - that way they focus on the homework and test prep so you are actually getting help, maybe less expensive if you hire professional tutors and maybe the kids are more engaged because it's someone younger they can relate to.

[Anonymous]

I would only use systems like Mathnasium to supplement.

If your children are having trouble, they need a tutor who will work on the specific challenges they are having. Someone who can help with homework and studying.

[Anonymous]

My son did Mathnasium in 8th grade and it was good for homework help but he started tutoring toward the end of the year. He needed it all through high school too. Thankfully, he did well in other subjects not involving math.

[Anonymous]

No no no. Your kids need one-on-one tutoring with a great tutor, who will review all the foundational concepts they're clearly missing, and build towards what they're learning now. It has to be intense and a ton of sweat equity, OP. Tell the tutor to really dig in, then force your kids to do the work assigned and put in the time. In high school, for decent colleges, your kids need the best gpa they can possibly get. In this test-optional environment, all colleges have is gpa now.

[Anonymous]

20:25 (and others) are correct. One on one tutoring. Preferably by an experienced tutor or college math major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both kids are failing math- 9th grader, algebra 1 and 10th grader, algebra 2. I sent them to mathnasium a couple of months and it’s not helping.

Mathnasium has a system of sort, steps, which may have helped if we started in 7th grade but it’s not helping now with quizzes and tests. They have both kids in a foundation level (meets 2x a week per our contract) that seems far behind and impossible to catch up to the level of their current class level. Should I just drop it? So expensive but a private tutor would be more. We need a tutor, I feel 3x week.
Recommendation how to move forward. The kids just don’t get the concepts, they have short term memory too- coupled with a shitty teen attitude, I’m at a loss.

Oh no, oh no! You have started shockingly late. If they are struggling in Algebra 1 and 2, there is no way that your kids were ever great at Math in ES or MS - so you are waking up only now?

Mathnasium cannot help you immediately with the Algebra 1 and Algebra 2 content because your kids are so far behind with Math and pre-algebra. It will take them the time it will take to bring them up to speed. I shudder to think what your kid will do junior year. It is rough.

If your kids work very hard every single day, and you also work very hard with them every single day, and maybe private tutor works very hard with them a few day, there is a chance that your kids can catch up in a few months.

Because you mentioned the cost - my low cost but very effective suggestion to you is to buy this course by James Seller
- https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/mastering-the-fundamentals-of-mathematics.html

Do at least two lessons per day. Do the course work too. Then progress to Algebra 1 and Algebra 2. These courses may be available in your local library too for free. In any case, every year there is an annual end of year sale and you can get these courses for cheap. I bought all the courses for my kids and I learned the material too. Do not skip chapters even if they seem very basic.

These courses are for people who are bad in Math and do not have a grasp of concepts.

[Anonymous]

I live outside the DMV. I have both of my high school kids in Mathnasium at the 2x week 90 minute lesson level (about $700/month). I put my kids in to overcome a substandard, non-tracked elementary math curriculum plus the lost curriculum time due to the pandemic.

One kid is like me - normally a good student but really doesn't "get" math. Doesn't study as much as he should for math tests and has a tendency to do very poorly. The other kid is better at math but lacked accuracy and formal knowledge so couldn't do some on-grade level things by 7th grade. Both were in accelerated math tracking starting in 6th grade (algebra in 8th, leading to calculus senior year). In my opinion, Mathnasium was able to help them over time (years) in a somewhat systematic manner at great expense. In my situation, retaining my local Mathnasium has unique advantages because the kids can get themselves to the center after school and walk home from the center. Also the center's owner/director is a very personable young man whom my sons enjoy working with.

I think my advice will not be completely relevant to you because I think your kids likely hate math more than mine since they are flunking. But maybe it will help some:

Mathnasium Pros:
-No drill sheet homework
-No parental monitoring (not Kumon)
-Goal of making kids like math
-Tutors will help with class homework & test review

Mathnasium Cons:
-Learning plan often includes some rare skills that are grade-appropriate but are not necessarily what your kid most needs to work on at that time (e.g., compound interest)
-Curriculum goes up to trigonometry/second algebra class level and has some SAT units BUT in my opinion the program is strongest for elementary ages up to maybe first algebra class. There are few kids older than late elementary at my kids' center. My senior takes his calculus work there, but they really aren't set up to teach that - they just can improvise a little to get him what he needs.
-A long enrollment (6 months to 1 year) would probably be needed to see results.

Now some recommendations:

1) You should try to figure out what the source is of each child's issues and what will motivate them to do better. This can involve getting inputs from multiple sources (kid themselves, Mathnasium, classroom teacher, any remedial/tutoring service your school offers, guidance counselor).

2) Your children may need more practice. Kids who don't like math usually don't want to practice and it can be hard for parents who have forgotten most of high school math to help. However, I have two recommendations: Khan Academy (free) and ixl.com (IXL) (paid).

If you are able to do some monitoring of your children working/practicing you may be able to ensure that they complete more material in the areas of their classroom studies or Mathnasium remedial work. At one point, my kids' middle school made IXL available to all students and it was free. I also paid for a one-year subscription one time. If you have friends to share costs, there are inexpensive small group classroom licences.

In order to make a decision about leaving Mathnasium, I think you should have a sit-down meeting with the center director and ask for their feedback on your kids' progress (not just the canned reports). You do probably need more help quicker. They can modify their templated programs somewhat. Directly asking may improve the value/support you are getting.

If you don't mind the cost of ixl.com, sign up for a math subscription for two children (each child needs a unique id to track their skill completion) and make them do 30 minutes a day. Even a year of IXL at full price is cheaper than one month of Mathnasium. The program tests them and suggests modules that go with the grade level that you set it on. The explanations of how to solve problems are about the same as Khan Academy but there are no videos (I prefer this) and the parent progress tracking is superior. I think anyone college-educated could probably use a child's curriculum/syllabus/homework to steer the child towards the most relevant practice modules while still letting the program track progress and suggest modules.

I ended up dropping IXL after one year and going with Mathasium because I didn't have time to enforce regular daily IXL and I wanted my kids to have homework help. IXL was still relatively worth it. The diagnostic results were similar to Mathnasium's.

3) Remind them that summer school is a risk. Most kids don't want to do that. In fact, if they are really flunking now, they might already be headed for summer school - so make sure you know what options they will have. If they don't have to go to summer school, they should do more IXL or Mathnasium in the summer if they really are lacking skills. (Like my 7th grader who couldn't remember how to do long division by hand at all.)

If you have any other questions, please ask. I will check back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both kids are failing math- 9th grader, algebra 1 and 10th grader, algebra 2. I sent them to mathnasium a couple of months and it’s not helping.

Mathnasium has a system of sort, steps, which may have helped if we started in 7th grade but it’s not helping now with quizzes and tests. They have both kids in a foundation level (meets 2x a week per our contract) that seems far behind and impossible to catch up to the level of their current class level. Should I just drop it? So expensive but a private tutor would be more. We need a tutor, I feel 3x week.
Recommendation how to move forward. The kids just don’t get the concepts, they have short term memory too- coupled with a shitty teen attitude, I’m at a loss.

Oh no, oh no! You have started shockingly late. If they are struggling in Algebra 1 and 2, there is no way that your kids were ever great at Math in ES or MS - so you are waking up only now?

Mathnasium cannot help you immediately with the Algebra 1 and Algebra 2 content because your kids are so far behind with Math and pre-algebra. It will take them the time it will take to bring them up to speed. I shudder to think what your kid will do junior year. It is rough.

If your kids work very hard every single day, and you also work very hard with them every single day, and maybe private tutor works very hard with them a few day, there is a chance that your kids can catch up in a few months.

Because you mentioned the cost - my low cost but very effective suggestion to you is to buy this course by James Seller
- https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/mastering-the-fundamentals-of-mathematics.html

Do at least two lessons per day. Do the course work too. Then progress to Algebra 1 and Algebra 2. These courses may be available in your local library too for free. In any case, every year there is an annual end of year sale and you can get these courses for cheap. I bought all the courses for my kids and I learned the material too. Do not skip chapters even if they seem very basic.

These courses are for people who are bad in Math and do not have a grasp of concepts.

Kids are supposed to be taking algebra 1 in ninth grade, geometry as a sophomore, and algebra 2 junior year. Lots of kids in the DMV are on the advanced math track and take algebra in middle school but OP’s kids are not that far behind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both kids are failing math- 9th grader, algebra 1 and 10th grader, algebra 2. I sent them to mathnasium a couple of months and it’s not helping.

Mathnasium has a system of sort, steps, which may have helped if we started in 7th grade but it’s not helping now with quizzes and tests. They have both kids in a foundation level (meets 2x a week per our contract) that seems far behind and impossible to catch up to the level of their current class level. Should I just drop it? So expensive but a private tutor would be more. We need a tutor, I feel 3x week.
Recommendation how to move forward. The kids just don’t get the concepts, they have short term memory too- coupled with a shitty teen attitude, I’m at a loss.

Need a tutor. No, it's not cheap. But it is worth it. We are using one now 1 x/ week and its $100/hour. But, mine isn't failing. Just needs the extra explanation and working through problems together that is not happening in a class of 30+ kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live outside the DMV. I have both of my high school kids in Mathnasium at the 2x week 90 minute lesson level (about $700/month). I put my kids in to overcome a substandard, non-tracked elementary math curriculum plus the lost curriculum time due to the pandemic.

One kid is like me - normally a good student but really doesn't "get" math. Doesn't study as much as he should for math tests and has a tendency to do very poorly. The other kid is better at math but lacked accuracy and formal knowledge so couldn't do some on-grade level things by 7th grade. Both were in accelerated math tracking starting in 6th grade (algebra in 8th, leading to calculus senior year). In my opinion, Mathnasium was able to help them over time (years) in a somewhat systematic manner at great expense. In my situation, retaining my local Mathnasium has unique advantages because the kids can get themselves to the center after school and walk home from the center. Also the center's owner/director is a very personable young man whom my sons enjoy working with.

I think my advice will not be completely relevant to you because I think your kids likely hate math more than mine since they are flunking. But maybe it will help some:

Mathnasium Pros:
-No drill sheet homework
-No parental monitoring (not Kumon)
-Goal of making kids like math
-Tutors will help with class homework & test review

Mathnasium Cons:
-Learning plan often includes some rare skills that are grade-appropriate but are not necessarily what your kid most needs to work on at that time (e.g., compound interest)
-Curriculum goes up to trigonometry/second algebra class level and has some SAT units BUT in my opinion the program is strongest for elementary ages up to maybe first algebra class. There are few kids older than late elementary at my kids' center. My senior takes his calculus work there, but they really aren't set up to teach that - they just can improvise a little to get him what he needs.
-A long enrollment (6 months to 1 year) would probably be needed to see results.

Now some recommendations:

1) You should try to figure out what the source is of each child's issues and what will motivate them to do better. This can involve getting inputs from multiple sources (kid themselves, Mathnasium, classroom teacher, any remedial/tutoring service your school offers, guidance counselor).

2) Your children may need more practice. Kids who don't like math usually don't want to practice and it can be hard for parents who have forgotten most of high school math to help. However, I have two recommendations: Khan Academy (free) and ixl.com (IXL) (paid).

If you are able to do some monitoring of your children working/practicing you may be able to ensure that they complete more material in the areas of their classroom studies or Mathnasium remedial work. At one point, my kids' middle school made IXL available to all students and it was free. I also paid for a one-year subscription one time. If you have friends to share costs, there are inexpensive small group classroom licences.

In order to make a decision about leaving Mathnasium, I think you should have a sit-down meeting with the center director and ask for their feedback on your kids' progress (not just the canned reports). You do probably need more help quicker. They can modify their templated programs somewhat. Directly asking may improve the value/support you are getting.

If you don't mind the cost of ixl.com, sign up for a math subscription for two children (each child needs a unique id to track their skill completion) and make them do 30 minutes a day. Even a year of IXL at full price is cheaper than one month of Mathnasium. The program tests them and suggests modules that go with the grade level that you set it on. The explanations of how to solve problems are about the same as Khan Academy but there are no videos (I prefer this) and the parent progress tracking is superior. I think anyone college-educated could probably use a child's curriculum/syllabus/homework to steer the child towards the most relevant practice modules while still letting the program track progress and suggest modules.

I ended up dropping IXL after one year and going with Mathasium because I didn't have time to enforce regular daily IXL and I wanted my kids to have homework help. IXL was still relatively worth it. The diagnostic results were similar to Mathnasium's.

3) Remind them that summer school is a risk. Most kids don't want to do that. In fact, if they are really flunking now, they might already be headed for summer school - so make sure you know what options they will have. If they don't have to go to summer school, they should do more IXL or Mathnasium in the summer if they really are lacking skills. (Like my 7th grader who couldn't remember how to do long division by hand at all.)

If you have any other questions, please ask. I will check back.

Summer school is not for kids that fail one class but are passing their other classes. Summer school is for kids who are failing multiple classes and need extra credit to graduate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both kids are failing math- 9th grader, algebra 1 and 10th grader, algebra 2. I sent them to mathnasium a couple of months and it’s not helping.

Mathnasium has a system of sort, steps, which may have helped if we started in 7th grade but it’s not helping now with quizzes and tests. They have both kids in a foundation level (meets 2x a week per our contract) that seems far behind and impossible to catch up to the level of their current class level. Should I just drop it? So expensive but a private tutor would be more. We need a tutor, I feel 3x week.
Recommendation how to move forward. The kids just don’t get the concepts, they have short term memory too- coupled with a shitty teen attitude, I’m at a loss.

Oh no, oh no! You have started shockingly late. If they are struggling in Algebra 1 and 2, there is no way that your kids were ever great at Math in ES or MS - so you are waking up only now?

Mathnasium cannot help you immediately with the Algebra 1 and Algebra 2 content because your kids are so far behind with Math and pre-algebra. It will take them the time it will take to bring them up to speed. I shudder to think what your kid will do junior year. It is rough.

If your kids work very hard every single day, and you also work very hard with them every single day, and maybe private tutor works very hard with them a few day, there is a chance that your kids can catch up in a few months.

Because you mentioned the cost - my low cost but very effective suggestion to you is to buy this course by James Seller
- https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/mastering-the-fundamentals-of-mathematics.html

Do at least two lessons per day. Do the course work too. Then progress to Algebra 1 and Algebra 2. These courses may be available in your local library too for free. In any case, every year there is an annual end of year sale and you can get these courses for cheap. I bought all the courses for my kids and I learned the material too. Do not skip chapters even if they seem very basic.

These courses are for people who are bad in Math and do not have a grasp of concepts.

Kids are supposed to be taking algebra 1 in ninth grade, geometry as a sophomore, and algebra 2 junior year. Lots of kids in the DMV are on the advanced math track and take algebra in middle school but OP’s kids are not that far behind.

If they are failing then they are FAR BEHIND. Their basic math concepts are not clear for them. They have significant gaps (maybe due to COVID) but Math builds upon previous foundational knowledge. It is not a question of what Math Track they are on. We know that schools will promote kids even if they have not learned anything. OP's children are functionally Math illiterate.

[Anonymous]

Mathnasium worked well for our kids at different times for different things. One needed help with some concepts, the other skipped a year of math (tested into the other class) and needed to learn a years worth of math over the summer (their choice/request, we did not push this at all, and tried to discourage it - fortunately, it worked out fine)