MC early college to UMD transfer

[Anonymous]

Thank you for everyone with the insight on this! The whole early college/dual enrollment/virtual middle college info is so confusing!
Originally my DC (9th) wanted to do virtual middle college (DC does great with online learning), but the program coordinators at MC are giving zero info and our school counselor is not even aware of the program. Now I am rethinking this whole process. What is the point of getting an AA if you cant just transfer and have to apply as Freshman?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for everyone with the insight on this! The whole early college/dual enrollment/virtual middle college info is so confusing!
Originally my DC (9th) wanted to do virtual middle college (DC does great with online learning), but the program coordinators at MC are giving zero info and our school counselor is not even aware of the program. Now I am rethinking this whole process. What is the point of getting an AA if you cant just transfer and have to apply as Freshman?

The point is you can reduce the time and money you have to spend to get a Bachelor's degree, if that's your goal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for everyone with the insight on this! The whole early college/dual enrollment/virtual middle college info is so confusing!
Originally my DC (9th) wanted to do virtual middle college (DC does great with online learning), but the program coordinators at MC are giving zero info and our school counselor is not even aware of the program. Now I am rethinking this whole process. What is the point of getting an AA if you cant just transfer and have to apply as Freshman?

This is why we decided against it for our kids. I would have 100% done it if there was some sort of guarantee to be able to transfer in to UMD (meeting gpa/SAT requirements of course). It just did not seem like a better option than AP/IB courses to us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for everyone with the insight on this! The whole early college/dual enrollment/virtual middle college info is so confusing!
Originally my DC (9th) wanted to do virtual middle college (DC does great with online learning), but the program coordinators at MC are giving zero info and our school counselor is not even aware of the program. Now I am rethinking this whole process. What is the point of getting an AA if you cant just transfer and have to apply as Freshman?

I’ve never heard that it was available through the VA. My child had to do the first year at Northwood via Zoom because of Covid. However, they didn’t offer the option to stay virtual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC graduated last year with an AS Engineering degree and is attending an out-of-state engineering program. I agree that Early College is an underappreciated program, but I think word is starting to spread. Last year they had 279 MC/MCPS dual enrollment students who earned AA or AS degrees. The ceremony is here: https://www.montgomerycollege.edu/high-school-students/dual-enrollment/degree-and-pathway-programs/early-college-program/index.html . I forget the exact breakdown of the programs, but ~1/3 were Early College, ~1/3 were Clarksburg Ptech, and ~1/3 were MC^2 from Northwood and Northwest. This list of colleges that kids are attending is pretty impressive, with a significant portion going to UMD-CP.

The college application piece wasn't very clear, partly because the Early College advisors kept getting switched around and I don't think on-site MC folk have fully distinguished Early College graduates from regular MC graduates who will go through the transfer process. Here is what I learned:

1. Until you have a high school diploma, you must apply to college as a freshman, on the normal first-year application time frame. (I confirmed this with multiple Admission officers at different universities, including UMD.)

2. The MC courses appear on your high school transcript as CE ADV <content area> according to [ur=https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10ioH1EHiOHwCyEZsm7caNYS_A5avqM23PWoKTFvW0tk/edit#gid=0l]MCPS Dual Enrollment/Credit Course Codes by MC Course[/url]

3. From an application standpoint, the courses are reported just like other AP/IB/advanced courses. UMD-CP (and some other schools) have applicants complete a Self-Reported Academic Record (SRAR) where you input your entire transcript. There isn't a place for saying you have an Associate's degree, because at the time you apply Early Action in fall of senior year, you don't have that yet.

4. The actual process of transferring credit to the university your student enrolls in happens after you send in the deposit. It follows that school's process for AP/IB/college credit. If it is a Maryland school all of the credits will transfer. If it is an out-of-state school, the school has some sort of credit transfer process. For my DC's school, they created an account for transferring and uploaded all of the courses before they had actually committed (confirming what would transfer). Some courses had already been approved and almost all of the rest were approved.

5. UMD-CP admissions officers don't seem to fully understand Early College and that it isn't just dual enrollment. We went to a couple of events for the Limited Enrollment Programs (LEPs - Engineering and Comp Sci) - the AOs there and folks at tables couldn't fully answer questions about what courses my DC would take.

This is my 3rd kid through the college admissions process at UMD, and my 3rd time of being unimpressed. UMD's admissions process is to admit to the university first, and then to the LEP. DC3 was deferred to regular decision because they wanted to see the 12th grade fall transcript. (Not sure why - GPA for MCPS and MC was high. I'm guessing because DC retook 1 course from winter session where they were sick and didn't finish it in the 3 weeks. Didn't know they could have withdrawn.) When UMD did admit DC in the spring, they were not admitted to the Engineering LEP, even though they met requirements for either internal admission to LEP or guaranteed admission by transfer from MC. Two weeks of emails to various folks in admissions were ignored. We finally emailed the person responsible for internal transfers into engineering with DC's transcript and asked about what courses DC would be able to take. 4 hours later the admissions letter was updated to admit to the Engineering LEP.

DC did not choose UMD primarily because they were more interested in a special program at the school they are attending. The only course(s) that didn't transfer were English 101 and 102 because the school has a special combined intro to engineering/writing course required by all first year students. DC is taking a mix of freshman, sophomore, and junior courses this fall and spring, exploring a cross-section of a few majors (EE, CS, Physics, Math). Their goal isn't to graduate early. Instead they intended to complete some co-ops and dual major in 4-years.

Hopefully that helps. Despite some of the hiccups, we were overall very pleased with the Early College program and the program DC is attending now at university.

I echo what the above poster stated. I would also suggest that you remain in regular contact with your high school counselor. Because you will apply as a freshman like any other high school senior, you will need your high school counselor to write your counselor letter of recommendation. You should also ask that they inform the college of the classes that were taken at MC (does not hurt to have your MC transcript sent to each college to which you apply in addition to your high school transcript) because the specific class is not listed on your MCPS transcript. Also, don't forget that you need to continue to have community service and leadership activities, just like any other high school senior.

Actually, you need to keep in close contact with your Middle College coordinator as well since they know many crucial things the counselors do not. And there’s procedures only the Middle College coordinator can do that the counselor cannot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for everyone with the insight on this! The whole early college/dual enrollment/virtual middle college info is so confusing!
Originally my DC (9th) wanted to do virtual middle college (DC does great with online learning), but the program coordinators at MC are giving zero info and our school counselor is not even aware of the program. Now I am rethinking this whole process. What is the point of getting an AA if you cant just transfer and have to apply as Freshman?

You apply as a freshman but you still get the credits to transfer and would be considered a Junior

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for everyone with the insight on this! The whole early college/dual enrollment/virtual middle college info is so confusing!
Originally my DC (9th) wanted to do virtual middle college (DC does great with online learning), but the program coordinators at MC are giving zero info and our school counselor is not even aware of the program. Now I am rethinking this whole process. What is the point of getting an AA if you cant just transfer and have to apply as Freshman?

You apply as a freshman but you still get the credits to transfer and would be considered a Junior

Right but that does not count for anything other than early class registration spring of first year. My kid is a junior off of AP credits and MCPS magnet math classes.

[Anonymous]

PP here. And of course being able to graduate early and/or take double major

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for everyone with the insight on this! The whole early college/dual enrollment/virtual middle college info is so confusing!
Originally my DC (9th) wanted to do virtual middle college (DC does great with online learning), but the program coordinators at MC are giving zero info and our school counselor is not even aware of the program. Now I am rethinking this whole process. What is the point of getting an AA if you cant just transfer and have to apply as Freshman?

You apply as a freshman but you still get the credits to transfer and would be considered a Junior

Right but that does not count for anything other than early class registration spring of first year. My kid is a junior off of AP credits and MCPS magnet math classes.

Yes it does, you could complete your bachelors degree in 2 years assuming a the credits transfered are for the right major. How would your child be considered a junior? If you pass an AP test you would probably get 3 or 4 credits. According to UMD, a junior is considered a junior if they have 60 credits. Did you child take 15-20 AP classes? Let's say they did and are pre med. Most of the AP credit wouldn't even apply to there major. For example, AP Human geography, art history, micro, macro, gov, euro, us history, computer science (I could go on). They could probably skip a few intro classes. If your kid was trying to get a Biology degree all these classes would not really be useful( except for gen ed requirements). But if you did Early college/middle college, they could take all the gen ed requirements and some major specific requirements like Biology 1&2, Chemistry 1&2, Organic Chemistry, Anatomy and Physiology, Microbiology. They could graduate in 2 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for everyone with the insight on this! The whole early college/dual enrollment/virtual middle college info is so confusing!
Originally my DC (9th) wanted to do virtual middle college (DC does great with online learning), but the program coordinators at MC are giving zero info and our school counselor is not even aware of the program. Now I am rethinking this whole process. What is the point of getting an AA if you cant just transfer and have to apply as Freshman?

You apply as a freshman but you still get the credits to transfer and would be considered a Junior

Right but that does not count for anything other than early class registration spring of first year. My kid is a junior off of AP credits and MCPS magnet math classes.

Yes it does, you could complete your bachelors degree in 2 years assuming a the credits transfered are for the right major. How would your child be considered a junior? If you pass an AP test you would probably get 3 or 4 credits. According to UMD, a junior is considered a junior if they have 60 credits. Did you child take 15-20 AP classes? Let's say they did and are pre med. Most of the AP credit wouldn't even apply to there major. For example, AP Human geography, art history, micro, macro, gov, euro, us history, computer science (I could go on). They could probably skip a few intro classes. If your kid was trying to get a Biology degree all these classes would not really be useful( except for gen ed requirements). But if you did Early college/middle college, they could take all the gen ed requirements and some major specific requirements like Biology 1&2, Chemistry 1&2, Organic Chemistry, Anatomy and Physiology, Microbiology. They could graduate in 2 years.

You missed my second part as I hit send too soon. My kid came in with 50 credits and is a junior after 1 semester. 12 APs all 4s and 5s and credit for a linear algebra and MVC. Can graduate in 3 years.

[Anonymous]

The benefit of an associates degree versus a collection of AP credits for same total is that the associates degree is cohesive and satisfies all of the Gen Ed requirements as well as the core courses for a specific major. Students only need to take 2 years of upperclass courses. My oldest kid enrolled with a ridiculous amount of AP/IB credit but not all of those credits applied towards the major and they still had several random Gen Eds to take.

The Universities of Shady Grove offer the final two years of many high demand (in MoCo) degrees from multiple Maryland universities. They are designed to go with an AA/AS from MC.

Enrolling in Early College specifically isn’t just about the AA/AS. It’s also a very different student day because they are full time at MC and not in HS at all. My youngest wasn’t really into the 7 period day with too slow a pace for content and too much wasted time during the day. They much preferred taking only 4 courses but going faster in content. Only ~3-4 hours per day on campus meant being able to sleep later and get work done during the day, leaving more evening time for activities. This may not be what most kids want, but for some it’s a better fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The benefit of an associates degree versus a collection of AP credits for same total is that the associates degree is cohesive and satisfies all of the Gen Ed requirements as well as the core courses for a specific major. Students only need to take 2 years of upperclass courses. My oldest kid enrolled with a ridiculous amount of AP/IB credit but not all of those credits applied towards the major and they still had several random Gen Eds to take.

The Universities of Shady Grove offer the final two years of many high demand (in MoCo) degrees from multiple Maryland universities. They are designed to go with an AA/AS from MC.

Enrolling in Early College specifically isn’t just about the AA/AS. It’s also a very different student day because they are full time at MC and not in HS at all. My youngest wasn’t really into the 7 period day with too slow a pace for content and too much wasted time during the day. They much preferred taking only 4 courses but going faster in content. Only ~3-4 hours per day on campus meant being able to sleep later and get work done during the day, leaving more evening time for activities. This may not be what most kids want, but for some it’s a better fit.

This is exactly what I was trying to explain 2 posts ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The benefit of an associates degree versus a collection of AP credits for same total is that the associates degree is cohesive and satisfies all of the Gen Ed requirements as well as the core courses for a specific major. Students only need to take 2 years of upperclass courses. My oldest kid enrolled with a ridiculous amount of AP/IB credit but not all of those credits applied towards the major and they still had several random Gen Eds to take.

The Universities of Shady Grove offer the final two years of many high demand (in MoCo) degrees from multiple Maryland universities. They are designed to go with an AA/AS from MC.

Enrolling in Early College specifically isn’t just about the AA/AS. It’s also a very different student day because they are full time at MC and not in HS at all. My youngest wasn’t really into the 7 period day with too slow a pace for content and too much wasted time during the day. They much preferred taking only 4 courses but going faster in content. Only ~3-4 hours per day on campus meant being able to sleep later and get work done during the day, leaving more evening time for activities. This may not be what most kids want, but for some it’s a better fit.

Thank you for the insight! This is why I was so excited about Virtual Middle College - best of both worlds as it was presented. No time wasting on classes in HS, but still can take electives/play sports whatever with peers at HS while doing online courses in MC. Virtual Middle College is brand new this year so thats might be why there is no info. I love the idea of AA/AS with HS diploma for several reasons, one of which was that DC would go into college not as freshman. DC does not want to live on campus and a lot of colleges (I believe UMD also) require freshman to do so. I dont understand why they are doing this, but I am sure there is a reason.
Separate question, if you take most of the courses required for AA/AS in HS and than finish with a semester in MC after graduation, can you trasnfer as upperclassman? Sorry this is very confusing, as I didnt go to college in US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For Computer Science, summer internships are vital. Your child will miss out.

What summer internship can a sophomore, even a junior, get that is relevant? They barely know anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DC graduated last year with an AS Engineering degree and is attending an out-of-state engineering program. I agree that Early College is an underappreciated program, but I think word is starting to spread. Last year they had 279 MC/MCPS dual enrollment students who earned AA or AS degrees. The ceremony is here: https://www.montgomerycollege.edu/high-school-students/dual-enrollment/degree-and-pathway-programs/early-college-program/index.html . I forget the exact breakdown of the programs, but ~1/3 were Early College, ~1/3 were Clarksburg Ptech, and ~1/3 were MC^2 from Northwood and Northwest. This list of colleges that kids are attending is pretty impressive, with a significant portion going to UMD-CP.

The college application piece wasn't very clear, partly because the Early College advisors kept getting switched around and I don't think on-site MC folk have fully distinguished Early College graduates from regular MC graduates who will go through the transfer process. Here is what I learned:

1. Until you have a high school diploma, you must apply to college as a freshman, on the normal first-year application time frame. (I confirmed this with multiple Admission officers at different universities, including UMD.)

2. The MC courses appear on your high school transcript as CE ADV <content area> according to [ur=https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10ioH1EHiOHwCyEZsm7caNYS_A5avqM23PWoKTFvW0tk/edit#gid=0l]MCPS Dual Enrollment/Credit Course Codes by MC Course[/url]

3. From an application standpoint, the courses are reported just like other AP/IB/advanced courses. UMD-CP (and some other schools) have applicants complete a Self-Reported Academic Record (SRAR) where you input your entire transcript. There isn't a place for saying you have an Associate's degree, because at the time you apply Early Action in fall of senior year, you don't have that yet.

4. The actual process of transferring credit to the university your student enrolls in happens after you send in the deposit. It follows that school's process for AP/IB/college credit. If it is a Maryland school all of the credits will transfer. If it is an out-of-state school, the school has some sort of credit transfer process. For my DC's school, they created an account for transferring and uploaded all of the courses before they had actually committed (confirming what would transfer). Some courses had already been approved and almost all of the rest were approved.

5. UMD-CP admissions officers don't seem to fully understand Early College and that it isn't just dual enrollment. We went to a couple of events for the Limited Enrollment Programs (LEPs - Engineering and Comp Sci) - the AOs there and folks at tables couldn't fully answer questions about what courses my DC would take.

This is my 3rd kid through the college admissions process at UMD, and my 3rd time of being unimpressed. UMD's admissions process is to admit to the university first, and then to the LEP. DC3 was deferred to regular decision because they wanted to see the 12th grade fall transcript. (Not sure why - GPA for MCPS and MC was high. I'm guessing because DC retook 1 course from winter session where they were sick and didn't finish it in the 3 weeks. Didn't know they could have withdrawn.) When UMD did admit DC in the spring, they were not admitted to the Engineering LEP, even though they met requirements for either internal admission to LEP or guaranteed admission by transfer from MC. Two weeks of emails to various folks in admissions were ignored. We finally emailed the person responsible for internal transfers into engineering with DC's transcript and asked about what courses DC would be able to take. 4 hours later the admissions letter was updated to admit to the Engineering LEP.

DC did not choose UMD primarily because they were more interested in a special program at the school they are attending. The only course(s) that didn't transfer were English 101 and 102 because the school has a special combined intro to engineering/writing course required by all first year students. DC is taking a mix of freshman, sophomore, and junior courses this fall and spring, exploring a cross-section of a few majors (EE, CS, Physics, Math). Their goal isn't to graduate early. Instead they intended to complete some co-ops and dual major in 4-years.

Hopefully that helps. Despite some of the hiccups, we were overall very pleased with the Early College program and the program DC is attending now at university.

Engineering at UMD is NOT an LEP. CS, Business are LEP's. Your student will have to be accepted to the University first before being accepted to their major. If you are accepted to the University and not offered your major, in the case of engineering you would need to fulfill the degree requirements and maintain the GPA - then apply for your major. The MC early college program is not a guaranteed admission to UMD. You still have to meet the qualifications for admission.