When the smallest doubt is treated as support of the other side

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The issue is that it sounds like weak support.

As in, the support should be stronger? I don’t owe anyone more support than I want to give, no?

[Anonymous]

OP here; to add, I constantly feel like one side in almost every big debate or conflict is trying to extract more support from me, prevent me from not just asking questions, but even trying to take a break before wholeheartedly supporting them.
Not me, but a high level person said “event X did not happen in a vacuum; it followed events Y and Z”, and there is a petition to “hold him accountable”. What?!

[Anonymous]

I think some people are upset they are catching heat for expressing opinions that are clearly the product of ignorance, and often malicious ignorance.

If you are going to open your mouth and claim space in the public sphere, try to inform yourself first. No shame in asking questions or not being 100% informed, but stop pretending your half-baked uninformed opinion is worthy of some special deference or respect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We don’t debate ideas anymore, we debate loyalties.

We debate whether the polcy is left or right and why you don't support the left?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think some people are upset they are catching heat for expressing opinions that are clearly the product of ignorance, and often malicious ignorance.

If you are going to open your mouth and claim space in the public sphere, try to inform yourself first. No shame in asking questions or not being 100% informed, but stop pretending your half-baked uninformed opinion is worthy of some special deference or respect.

Yeah right. "Just asking questions" are words used to ridicule and silence these days. It's literally a shaming phrase.

There is also the BS about not having the obligation to "enact the labor" of informing someone of why you think they are misguided.

Unquestioned loyalty and obeisance are the only acceptable actions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We don’t debate ideas anymore, we debate loyalties.

Whew. This says it all. Whoever you are, you’ve nailed it.

+100000

People are tribal. As more an Americans identify less with a religious identity, they replace their tribalism with a political identity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hold the media largely to blame. It doesn’t engage in journalism anymore. No more: who, what, when, where.

It’s all opinion pieces with maybe some facts weaved in. If opinion is authoritative, then each opinion is equally valid. It just devolves into whose opinion has more adherents and is therefore correct.

Why do you blame the media when the media companies are doing what for-profit companies are primarily meant to do - namely profit off of you?

If opinion is what sells, then that's what the media companies will feed you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hold the media largely to blame. It doesn’t engage in journalism anymore. No more: who, what, when, where.

It’s all opinion pieces with maybe some facts weaved in. If opinion is authoritative, then each opinion is equally valid. It just devolves into whose opinion has more adherents and is therefore correct.

Why do you blame the media when the media companies are doing what for-profit companies are primarily meant to do - namely profit off of you?

If opinion is what sells, then that's what the media companies will feed you.

Because it's false advertising when they act like they're neutral or objective instead of opinion or advocacy journalists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Had to memorize this in high school, and I can't even count the number of times I've thought about this poem in the last several years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some people are upset they are catching heat for expressing opinions that are clearly the product of ignorance, and often malicious ignorance.

If you are going to open your mouth and claim space in the public sphere, try to inform yourself first. No shame in asking questions or not being 100% informed, but stop pretending your half-baked uninformed opinion is worthy of some special deference or respect.

Yeah right. "Just asking questions" are words used to ridicule and silence these days. It's literally a shaming phrase.

There is also the BS about not having the obligation to "enact the labor" of informing someone of why you think they are misguided.

Unquestioned loyalty and obeisance are the only acceptable actions.

Fair point, to a limit.

Some of these things have been settled a long time ago and don’t even warrant discussion anymore. For example, if you don’t want to inform yourself why poor people are also more likely to be fat now, don’t make a stupid song about it and pretend you’re some enlightened independent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some people are upset they are catching heat for expressing opinions that are clearly the product of ignorance, and often malicious ignorance.

If you are going to open your mouth and claim space in the public sphere, try to inform yourself first. No shame in asking questions or not being 100% informed, but stop pretending your half-baked uninformed opinion is worthy of some special deference or respect.

Yeah right. "Just asking questions" are words used to ridicule and silence these days. It's literally a shaming phrase.

There is also the BS about not having the obligation to "enact the labor" of informing someone of why you think they are misguided.

Unquestioned loyalty and obeisance are the only acceptable actions.

Fair point, to a limit.

Some of these things have been settled a long time ago and don’t even warrant discussion anymore. For example, if you don’t want to inform yourself why poor people are also more likely to be fat now, don’t make a stupid song about it and pretend you’re some enlightened independent.

I agree with you that there are limits as well, but such language is used with quite broad applicability in a time when words and meanings of terms change with alarming frequency and there often is not even unanimity of meaning among many who even use certain words or terms.

I guess the point is, increasingly is seems like very few things are "settled".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll try to make it as general as possible. What if there is a hot topic, A vs B. Say most people around you support A. You do, too, but you have questions or doubts about A, or you can understand (but not support) B’s reasoning. you don’t perceive A as something flawless.
However if you ask those questions, or even don’t support A with all your heart, you are labeled as (insert whatever insult du jour you can think of).
How to deal with it?
I find that in the most recent conflicts I can’t support one side without reservation, yet it seems like I am expected to. I am genuinely scared of all the silence is violence type tropes.

What I have notified in regards to this kind of thing is that when people don’t voice “appropriate” support for something (trans rights, Israel/Palestine, immigration seem to be the biggies) it’s not the lack of support that I comment on; you can have your own beliefs. It’s the fact that people use the exact same wording as right wingers when talking about it.

Let’s take immigration. Yes, I can agree that there has been a large influx of immigrants, perhaps more than what we can absorb/assimilate/educate the children etc. Should there be some limits? Absolutely, and let’s legislate that rather than just moaning and wailing about it, right? Wrong, according to some. The moment anyone frames their opposition to immigration as “the Democrats support OpEnBoRdErS,” I’m not thinking that they have real reservations with immigration, I’m thinking, huh. it’s weird that they’re verbatim repeating Republican talking points that manage to let Republicans off the hook for governance failure.

Furthermore, as in so many things, only Democrats get dinged for this. Republicans just march in lockstep and demand the same from their followers and no one seems to blink. I accept that I might be wrong about that, but I’m gonna guess that OP means at least one of the three biggies I mentioned and is only upset with Democratic response to her Republican talking point doubts.

You are one example of the problem, leaving people feel politically abandoned. Shame on you.

No, I’m not. You are. I have an explanation with nuance and you shoot it down with “you are one example of the problem.” Go with yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some people are upset they are catching heat for expressing opinions that are clearly the product of ignorance, and often malicious ignorance.

If you are going to open your mouth and claim space in the public sphere, try to inform yourself first. No shame in asking questions or not being 100% informed, but stop pretending your half-baked uninformed opinion is worthy of some special deference or respect.

Yeah right. "Just asking questions" are words used to ridicule and silence these days. It's literally a shaming phrase.

There is also the BS about not having the obligation to "enact the labor" of informing someone of why you think they are misguided.

Unquestioned loyalty and obeisance are the only acceptable actions.

Fair point, to a limit.

Some of these things have been settled a long time ago and don’t even warrant discussion anymore. For example, if you don’t want to inform yourself why poor people are also more likely to be fat now, don’t make a stupid song about it and pretend you’re some enlightened independent.

I agree with you that there are limits as well, but such language is used with quite broad applicability in a time when words and meanings of terms change with alarming frequency and there often is not even unanimity of meaning among many who even use certain words or terms.

I guess the point is, increasingly is seems like very few things are "settled".

Agreed. Like the right of women to control their own bodies, the right of children not to be blown to bits in their schools, or the right of people to have a say in their representative government. Nothing is settled anymore. We can thank one particular side for that, and in light of these existential threats, many people are less tolerant of the ignorant BS coming from the right wing that they may have casually explained away in prior years. We’ve all learned that, when you are dealing with amoral people who think they have God’s backing, none of it is harmless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some people are upset they are catching heat for expressing opinions that are clearly the product of ignorance, and often malicious ignorance.

If you are going to open your mouth and claim space in the public sphere, try to inform yourself first. No shame in asking questions or not being 100% informed, but stop pretending your half-baked uninformed opinion is worthy of some special deference or respect.

Yeah right. "Just asking questions" are words used to ridicule and silence these days. It's literally a shaming phrase.

There is also the BS about not having the obligation to "enact the labor" of informing someone of why you think they are misguided.

Unquestioned loyalty and obeisance are the only acceptable actions.

Fair point, to a limit.

Some of these things have been settled a long time ago and don’t even warrant discussion anymore. For example, if you don’t want to inform yourself why poor people are also more likely to be fat now, don’t make a stupid song about it and pretend you’re some enlightened independent.

I agree with you that there are limits as well, but such language is used with quite broad applicability in a time when words and meanings of terms change with alarming frequency and there often is not even unanimity of meaning among many who even use certain words or terms.

I guess the point is, increasingly is seems like very few things are "settled".

Agreed. Like the right of women to control their own bodies, the right of children not to be blown to bits in their schools, or the right of people to have a say in their representative government. Nothing is settled anymore. We can thank one particular side for that, and in light of these existential threats, many people are less tolerant of the ignorant BS coming from the right wing that they may have casually explained away in prior years. We’ve all learned that, when you are dealing with amoral people who think they have God’s backing, none of it is harmless.

Thank you! Somebody gets it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some people are upset they are catching heat for expressing opinions that are clearly the product of ignorance, and often malicious ignorance.

If you are going to open your mouth and claim space in the public sphere, try to inform yourself first. No shame in asking questions or not being 100% informed, but stop pretending your half-baked uninformed opinion is worthy of some special deference or respect.

Yeah right. "Just asking questions" are words used to ridicule and silence these days. It's literally a shaming phrase.

There is also the BS about not having the obligation to "enact the labor" of informing someone of why you think they are misguided.

Unquestioned loyalty and obeisance are the only acceptable actions.

Fair point, to a limit.

Some of these things have been settled a long time ago and don’t even warrant discussion anymore. For example, if you don’t want to inform yourself why poor people are also more likely to be fat now, don’t make a stupid song about it and pretend you’re some enlightened independent.

I agree with you that there are limits as well, but such language is used with quite broad applicability in a time when words and meanings of terms change with alarming frequency and there often is not even unanimity of meaning among many who even use certain words or terms.

I guess the point is, increasingly is seems like very few things are "settled".

Agreed. Like the right of women to control their own bodies, the right of children not to be blown to bits in their schools, or the right of people to have a say in their representative government. Nothing is settled anymore. We can thank one particular side for that, and in light of these existential threats, many people are less tolerant of the ignorant BS coming from the right wing that they may have casually explained away in prior years. We’ve all learned that, when you are dealing with amoral people who think they have God’s backing, none of it is harmless.

Thank you! Somebody gets it.

+2

“I have the smallest doubt” is usually code for I agree totally with the worst possible position and I’m tired of people judging me for my crap opinions.