talking about Palestine/Israel

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don’t sound like an ally.

Yeah, what a joke. She's a know-it-all who is finding it hard to resist lecturing people because she wants to court "potential donors" among the "wealthy" Jews.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:hi,
am curious how families are engaging with their children about the war/attacks/ongoing struggles with the Palestinians and the state of Israel. I have strong feelings about the continued living conditions Palestinians in the occupied areas and am disappointed by the ongoing support by the US government of Israel's defense and government policies that are harmful to Palestinians and non-Jewish citizens. Israel's policies have created apartheid with unequal access to resources like water or political rights for non-Jews. But might is right so they have the military power (backed by the US) to further policies (like illegal settlements) that disempower Palestinians.

However, I don't want to say any of this because I know it is difficult. our children attend a school with lots of Jewish students, many (but not all) of whom are wealthy and pro-Israel. It is difficult to discuss some of these topics without offending the identity of students or potentially harming the relationship of potential donors, many of whom might be strong supporters of Israel. How then do folks engage around these difficult issues carefully and share your family's values without ostracizing others in your family's circles/your children's circles?

I will say our family dealt with this similarly with the war in Ukraine. We are connected to a Russian family and I felt for how the war created a difficult situation for the clearly other-ized folks with Russian identities. But it wasn't as if I felt muted from discussing the issues in the same way.

Also I should just state plainly that I feel folks that criticize Israeli policies are too quickly and unfairly judged as anti-Semitic. I do know that some folks that criticize Israel are or might be anti-Jewish too. But the quick labeling or silencing of criticism I think has created a difficult space for dialogue.

I want to be an ally to folks including Jewish, Muslim, trans, Asian, POC, and other folks but wonder how folks carefully do that and offer critical views too. I've never found that nuanced conversation more difficult than with issues in Israel/Palestine.

How old are your kids? If you have unpopular opinions and don't want them shared at school, I wouldn't discuss them with your kids at all.

OP’s opinions are more popular than you realize. People are just terrified to say them out loud for fear of being labeled anti-Semitic.

Exactly! I think OP summarized how I feel about the whole situation. I am not afraid to talk about it with my almost 15 year old but I keep it to myself at work and most friends one of whom said "I know the Israeli government is horrible but I'll always be pro-Israel." Not much room for discussion and nuance there so I keep quiet.

[Anonymous]

Sometimes you just have to take a stand for what you believe is right and piss some people off. It's ok.

[Anonymous]

thanks for the thoughtful responses:
-listen empathetically to all sides (although there are few from the impacted Palestinian community in my children's circles)
-nuanced sharing of my thoughts
-solutions more than blame
-the people are not the government

some of the responders on here are just mean and why reply if all you want to do is put down people? some of you have too much time on your hands and are not nice online.

I know as US residents and citizens this is a difficult thing. I guess the thing I always want to lead with is to be mindful of unkindness or mean behavior. I think the more Black-White an issue is, the more quickly we are to demonize folks who are on a 'side' so I guess trying to ensure the young people in my family understand some of the challenges with all the competing things. The oldest is 13 (and attending bah/bar mitzvahs now) and the younger is 11.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, we tell our kids that Palestinians deserve the same rights as Israelis. It’s as simple as that. Both sides deserve to live in peace and prosperity. Right now, Gaza is under a military blockade. They are at the mercy of the Israeli military (which has been the case for decades). Peace will only come when people in Gaza can enjoy the same freedoms as Israelis.

Serious question: Do you acknowledge the terrorist attacks on Israelis? The 200 hostages? The role of Hamas, a terrorist organization, in the plight of the Palestinians? I wouldn't expect a detailed discussion with kids but this one-sided approach is problematic.

[Anonymous]

I talked to my 11yo DD about it.
I have similar views to you. We are Christian and she goes to a Christian K-8 so I brought that up a little bit in the sense that so many wars are started on the name of religion and God wouldn’t want this. All humans should be free to worship as they choose etc.

[Anonymous]

“ Also I should just state plainly that I feel folks that criticize Israeli policies are too quickly and unfairly judged as anti-Semitic.”

Please don’t do this - it’s dishonest unless you also have a clear and impartial value about speech and cancel culture for all social issues/idenity groups, which you almost certainly do not. Otherwise, this is just something people say to deny that in fact, the venn diagram between being anti-Israel and anti-Semitic is actually very overlapping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP isn't interested in listening. From the comfort of her home in the U.S., she has strong black and white views to a complex situation in the Middle East. From her perch of all-knowing moral superiority, she just wants to figure out how to deal with the "wealthy" Jews "without harming the relationship of potential donors."

I see you more than you see yourself, OP.

ha, some kernel of truth …

OP what this truly is is an opportunity to explore the phenomenon of cancel culture with your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:hi,
am curious how families are engaging with their children about the war/attacks/ongoing struggles with the Palestinians and the state of Israel. I have strong feelings about the continued living conditions Palestinians in the occupied areas and am disappointed by the ongoing support by the US government of Israel's defense and government policies that are harmful to Palestinians and non-Jewish citizens. Israel's policies have created apartheid with unequal access to resources like water or political rights for non-Jews. But might is right so they have the military power (backed by the US) to further policies (like illegal settlements) that disempower Palestinians.

However, I don't want to say any of this because I know it is difficult. our children attend a school with lots of Jewish students, many (but not all) of whom are wealthy and pro-Israel. It is difficult to discuss some of these topics without offending the identity of students or potentially harming the relationship of potential donors, many of whom might be strong supporters of Israel. How then do folks engage around these difficult issues carefully and share your family's values without ostracizing others in your family's circles/your children's circles?

I will say our family dealt with this similarly with the war in Ukraine. We are connected to a Russian family and I felt for how the war created a difficult situation for the clearly other-ized folks with Russian identities. But it wasn't as if I felt muted from discussing the issues in the same way.

Also I should just state plainly that I feel folks that criticize Israeli policies are too quickly and unfairly judged as anti-Semitic. I do know that some folks that criticize Israel are or might be anti-Jewish too. But the quick labeling or silencing of criticism I think has created a difficult space for dialogue.

I want to be an ally to folks including Jewish, Muslim, trans, Asian, POC, and other folks but wonder how folks carefully do that and offer critical views too. I've never found that nuanced conversation more difficult than with issues in Israel/Palestine.

How old are your kids? If you have unpopular opinions and don't want them shared at school, I wouldn't discuss them with your kids at all.

OP’s opinions are more popular than you realize. People are just terrified to say them out loud for fear of being labeled anti-Semitic.

If you march along in a protest shouting “from the river to the sea” while sporting an edgy paraglider t-shirt - yes you may be labeled anti-semitic.

If you say “I think the Gazan civilians deserve better and the Hamas attack was horrifying” - nobody will label you antisemitic.

If you actually can engage in a reasoned discussion of the events that led up to the attacks - nobody will label you anti-semitic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, we tell our kids that Palestinians deserve the same rights as Israelis. It’s as simple as that. Both sides deserve to live in peace and prosperity. Right now, Gaza is under a military blockade. They are at the mercy of the Israeli military (which has been the case for decades). Peace will only come when people in Gaza can enjoy the same freedoms as Israelis.

But that’s simplistic, almost propaganda, because you leave out what it means for Gaza to “enjoy the same freedoms” as well as what Israel is entitled to do to defend itself from a territorial invasion. If the Navajos raided Flagstaff and killed 1000 people, what do you think would happen in the US?

[Anonymous]

I have a 13 and 11 yo kids. We talk about it openly at home but unfortunately we have to tell them not to discuss it at school. We are VERY clear that we are not against Jewish people at all. But we are against Israeli policy towards Palestinians. We have also talked about the hypocrisy in chilling any statements supporting Palestinians. They are smart kids and can see it for themselves. We teach them that all innocent lives should be honored but we can only say it out loud for one group of people.

[Anonymous]

“This is a very complicated issue that frankly would require a lot more education for me to discuss well. The same is true for you and most of the adults who are engaging in it, but lots of people are reacting quickly and emotionally. If you want to do a deep dive to understand both sides’ positions, I’m happy to help you find resources.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, we tell our kids that Palestinians deserve the same rights as Israelis. It’s as simple as that. Both sides deserve to live in peace and prosperity. Right now, Gaza is under a military blockade. They are at the mercy of the Israeli military (which has been the case for decades). Peace will only come when people in Gaza can enjoy the same freedoms as Israelis.

But that’s simplistic, almost propaganda, because you leave out what it means for Gaza to “enjoy the same freedoms” as well as what Israel is entitled to do to defend itself from a territorial invasion. If the Navajos raided Flagstaff and killed 1000 people, what do you think would happen in the US?

So when Pearl Harbor was bombed and the we nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki, were we the terrorist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, we tell our kids that Palestinians deserve the same rights as Israelis. It’s as simple as that. Both sides deserve to live in peace and prosperity. Right now, Gaza is under a military blockade. They are at the mercy of the Israeli military (which has been the case for decades). Peace will only come when people in Gaza can enjoy the same freedoms as Israelis.

But that’s simplistic, almost propaganda, because you leave out what it means for Gaza to “enjoy the same freedoms” as well as what Israel is entitled to do to defend itself from a territorial invasion. If the Navajos raided Flagstaff and killed 1000 people, what do you think would happen in the US?

Oh wow!!! Well when the Navajo nation creates an apartheid state in Arizona or NM come back and update us.

Until then, I don't think you are capable of being objective in this conversation.

[Anonymous]

It sure sounds like you want to tell your kids WHAT to think instead of teaching them HOW to form opinions. They are far too old for you not to have imparted that on them.