Big law partners and billable hours

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been an equity partner for 10 years and still bill over 2000 almost every year. Firms are increasingly focused on partners hitting their billable targets, even those who have a significant book. 2800 all-in is certainly high, but not unheard of. He's on a path to a very high income though.

Op - at some point isn’t it inefficient for partners to be writing or rewriting the bulk of what associates do? I feel like my DH is constantly complaining about this.

Yes, and unfortunately, this is now your DH's problem to solve. He will need to help hire and train good associates. This can take years to cultivate a following. Then he'll need to make sure if they are actually good they don't get snatched up by more powerful partners. Finally, most of the good ones will leave (because they can have better lives/opportunities elsewhere) or make partner themselves, so it's a constant cycle of finding and cultivating new talent which quite frankly may be more work than just doing it yourself?

This is especially true in the legal market today…any outstanding associate will leave OP’a DH’s mid level firm to move up. It won’t get better for him.

[Anonymous]

The best thing you all can do right now is manage your money responsibly. Invest enough in extra help around the house that no one becomes resentful in the relationship. But save like crazy so he feels like he can jump ship or downgrade if he wants to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The best thing you all can do right now is manage your money responsibly. Invest enough in extra help around the house that no one becomes resentful in the relationship. But save like crazy so he feels like he can jump ship or downgrade if he wants to.

Correct. You don't have to live like paupers, but having $$$$ in the bank/investments "buys" you options. Unfortunately, too many "partners" put on golden handcuffs that they can never remove.

[Anonymous]

I am totally confused. All these threads on DCUM about how Big Law associates work a million hours a week, and therefore can't do any kind of help at home, and you were averaging under 60 hours a week as an associate, and even less now?

Is this really typical? So, the people whining about how their Big Law spouses are never home, where are those people?

I always assumed it was more like 4,000 a year based on what I read here. I am flabbergasted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am totally confused. All these threads on DCUM about how Big Law associates work a million hours a week, and therefore can't do any kind of help at home, and you were averaging under 60 hours a week as an associate, and even less now?

Is this really typical? So, the people whining about how their Big Law spouses are never home, where are those people?

I always assumed it was more like 4,000 a year based on what I read here. I am flabbergasted.

Associates bill more hours than partners. Partners spend a lot of non-billable time on client development and firm work, like serving on committees. They're still working 60 hour weeks, their 60 hours isn't all billable to a client.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am totally confused. All these threads on DCUM about how Big Law associates work a million hours a week, and therefore can't do any kind of help at home, and you were averaging under 60 hours a week as an associate, and even less now?

Is this really typical? So, the people whining about how their Big Law spouses are never home, where are those people?

I always assumed it was more like 4,000 a year based on what I read here. I am flabbergasted.

60 x 50 weeks (assume 2 weeks vacation) is 3k hours per year. OPs DH is doing 2800 hours per year (2k billable) which is pretty close to 60 hours per week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am totally confused. All these threads on DCUM about how Big Law associates work a million hours a week, and therefore can't do any kind of help at home, and you were averaging under 60 hours a week as an associate, and even less now?

Is this really typical? So, the people whining about how their Big Law spouses are never home, where are those people?

I always assumed it was more like 4,000 a year based on what I read here. I am flabbergasted.

60 x 50 weeks (assume 2 weeks vacation) is 3k hours per year. OPs DH is doing 2800 hours per year (2k billable) which is pretty close to 60 hours per week.

But 60 hours a week isn't an insane workload like people make Big Law out to be. Especially given that a Big Law associate can afford to live close in so they don't have a terrible commute, does some of that work from home and can flex around family responsibilities, and gets to work sitting down.

I always assumed from the whining that Big Law associates were working 80 - 90 hour weeks. 60 is a pretty common work week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am totally confused. All these threads on DCUM about how Big Law associates work a million hours a week, and therefore can't do any kind of help at home, and you were averaging under 60 hours a week as an associate, and even less now?

Is this really typical? So, the people whining about how their Big Law spouses are never home, where are those people?

I always assumed it was more like 4,000 a year based on what I read here. I am flabbergasted.

60 x 50 weeks (assume 2 weeks vacation) is 3k hours per year. OPs DH is doing 2800 hours per year (2k billable) which is pretty close to 60 hours per week.

But 60 hours a week isn't an insane workload like people make Big Law out to be. Especially given that a Big Law associate can afford to live close in so they don't have a terrible commute, does some of that work from home and can flex around family responsibilities, and gets to work sitting down.

I always assumed from the whining that Big Law associates were working 80 - 90 hour weeks. 60 is a pretty common work week.

Yes. Many people are full of sh$t when it comes to biglaw hours. Especially in DC, where at least half of the lawyers are in relatively laid back regulatory practices.

It’s still not an easy gig… it’s intellectually grueling, and intensely stressful if you’re doing anything important. You’re also always “half on” which is a different kind of stress.

But in terms of sheer hours? A *good* associate bills 2000+. Not all time is billable, so that ends up being about 2500 hours per year all in, or 50 hours/week with a vacation. Partners typically have about the same amount of all in time, much lower on billables.

But many, many associates don’t even come close to that. Depending on firm, practice area, and how good you are either as a practitioner or as a business generator, you can live in the 1500-1800 hour range indefinitely. I’m in year 3 of being an EP and I’ve never billed more than 1900 in my career. I’m never going to be a $10MM partner, but I’m over $1MM and perfectly happy with that.

Don’t believe the hype.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am totally confused. All these threads on DCUM about how Big Law associates work a million hours a week, and therefore can't do any kind of help at home, and you were averaging under 60 hours a week as an associate, and even less now?

Is this really typical? So, the people whining about how their Big Law spouses are never home, where are those people?

I always assumed it was more like 4,000 a year based on what I read here. I am flabbergasted.

60 x 50 weeks (assume 2 weeks vacation) is 3k hours per year. OPs DH is doing 2800 hours per year (2k billable) which is pretty close to 60 hours per week.

But 60 hours a week isn't an insane workload like people make Big Law out to be. Especially given that a Big Law associate can afford to live close in so they don't have a terrible commute, does some of that work from home and can flex around family responsibilities, and gets to work sitting down.

I always assumed from the whining that Big Law associates were working 80 - 90 hour weeks. 60 is a pretty common work week.

60 hrs a week on mindless legal paperwork is insane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am totally confused. All these threads on DCUM about how Big Law associates work a million hours a week, and therefore can't do any kind of help at home, and you were averaging under 60 hours a week as an associate, and even less now?

Is this really typical? So, the people whining about how their Big Law spouses are never home, where are those people?

I always assumed it was more like 4,000 a year based on what I read here. I am flabbergasted.

60 x 50 weeks (assume 2 weeks vacation) is 3k hours per year. OPs DH is doing 2800 hours per year (2k billable) which is pretty close to 60 hours per week.

But 60 hours a week isn't an insane workload like people make Big Law out to be. Especially given that a Big Law associate can afford to live close in so they don't have a terrible commute, does some of that work from home and can flex around family responsibilities, and gets to work sitting down.

I always assumed from the whining that Big Law associates were working 80 - 90 hour weeks. 60 is a pretty common work week.

What they aren't saying is that a lot of those hours are on weekends/late at night, and very unpredictable depending on the matters being dealt with. Over time, you wind up missing a lot of family time. So yeah, there's that...

Yes. Many people are full of sh$t when it comes to biglaw hours. Especially in DC, where at least half of the lawyers are in relatively laid back regulatory practices.

It’s still not an easy gig… it’s intellectually grueling, and intensely stressful if you’re doing anything important. You’re also always “half on” which is a different kind of stress.

But in terms of sheer hours? A *good* associate bills 2000+. Not all time is billable, so that ends up being about 2500 hours per year all in, or 50 hours/week with a vacation. Partners typically have about the same amount of all in time, much lower on billables.

But many, many associates don’t even come close to that. Depending on firm, practice area, and how good you are either as a practitioner or as a business generator, you can live in the 1500-1800 hour range indefinitely. I’m in year 3 of being an EP and I’ve never billed more than 1900 in my career. I’m never going to be a $10MM partner, but I’m over $1MM and perfectly happy with that.

Don’t believe the hype.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am totally confused. All these threads on DCUM about how Big Law associates work a million hours a week, and therefore can't do any kind of help at home, and you were averaging under 60 hours a week as an associate, and even less now?

Is this really typical? So, the people whining about how their Big Law spouses are never home, where are those people?

I always assumed it was more like 4,000 a year based on what I read here. I am flabbergasted.

60 x 50 weeks (assume 2 weeks vacation) is 3k hours per year. OPs DH is doing 2800 hours per year (2k billable) which is pretty close to 60 hours per week.

But 60 hours a week isn't an insane workload like people make Big Law out to be. Especially given that a Big Law associate can afford to live close in so they don't have a terrible commute, does some of that work from home and can flex around family responsibilities, and gets to work sitting down.

I always assumed from the whining that Big Law associates were working 80 - 90 hour weeks. 60 is a pretty common work week.

You are assuming that 2000 billable hours = 2000 working hours. That is not accurate. Nobody bills 100% time effectively. If you are billing 2000 hours you are definitely working many more hours than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am totally confused. All these threads on DCUM about how Big Law associates work a million hours a week, and therefore can't do any kind of help at home, and you were averaging under 60 hours a week as an associate, and even less now?

Is this really typical? So, the people whining about how their Big Law spouses are never home, where are those people?

I always assumed it was more like 4,000 a year based on what I read here. I am flabbergasted.

60 x 50 weeks (assume 2 weeks vacation) is 3k hours per year. OPs DH is doing 2800 hours per year (2k billable) which is pretty close to 60 hours per week.

But 60 hours a week isn't an insane workload like people make Big Law out to be. Especially given that a Big Law associate can afford to live close in so they don't have a terrible commute, does some of that work from home and can flex around family responsibilities, and gets to work sitting down.

I always assumed from the whining that Big Law associates were working 80 - 90 hour weeks. 60 is a pretty common work week.

Guess it depends on your practice area. When things were busy I was working 12+ hours a day but when things were slow I was always worried about catching my next deal so I was in the office to be "available" to the partners to get more work. Sometimes it just worked out that I was in the office for 8 hours with nothing to do and then a deal came up and I would work crazy hours for a few days. My billable hours were usually around 2,000 per year but I was definitely in the office waiting for work or looking for work for much more than that. Also sometimes I would just have to be in the office waiting while a partner reviewed my work and often that feedback comes at the end of the day so you're being available during the day but then doing more work in the evening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am totally confused. All these threads on DCUM about how Big Law associates work a million hours a week, and therefore can't do any kind of help at home, and you were averaging under 60 hours a week as an associate, and even less now?

Is this really typical? So, the people whining about how their Big Law spouses are never home, where are those people?

I always assumed it was more like 4,000 a year based on what I read here. I am flabbergasted.

60 x 50 weeks (assume 2 weeks vacation) is 3k hours per year. OPs DH is doing 2800 hours per year (2k billable) which is pretty close to 60 hours per week.

But 60 hours a week isn't an insane workload like people make Big Law out to be. Especially given that a Big Law associate can afford to live close in so they don't have a terrible commute, does some of that work from home and can flex around family responsibilities, and gets to work sitting down.

I always assumed from the whining that Big Law associates were working 80 - 90 hour weeks. 60 is a pretty common work week.

It really is not. 60 hours a week on average is way more than most people do. Only a small percentage of people in finance, consulting, or senior executives put in these kind of hours, and they all tend to be very well compensated.

I have worked for government and in the private sector and rarely come across people who regularly have to do those kind of hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am totally confused. All these threads on DCUM about how Big Law associates work a million hours a week, and therefore can't do any kind of help at home, and you were averaging under 60 hours a week as an associate, and even less now?

Is this really typical? So, the people whining about how their Big Law spouses are never home, where are those people?

I always assumed it was more like 4,000 a year based on what I read here. I am flabbergasted.

60 x 50 weeks (assume 2 weeks vacation) is 3k hours per year. OPs DH is doing 2800 hours per year (2k billable) which is pretty close to 60 hours per week.

But 60 hours a week isn't an insane workload like people make Big Law out to be. Especially given that a Big Law associate can afford to live close in so they don't have a terrible commute, does some of that work from home and can flex around family responsibilities, and gets to work sitting down.

I always assumed from the whining that Big Law associates were working 80 - 90 hour weeks. 60 is a pretty common work week.

You are assuming that 2000 billable hours = 2000 working hours. That is not accurate. Nobody bills 100% time effectively. If you are billing 2000 hours you are definitely working many more hours than that.

No, I am assuming that 2000 billing is 2800 hours since that is what OP wrote.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am totally confused. All these threads on DCUM about how Big Law associates work a million hours a week, and therefore can't do any kind of help at home, and you were averaging under 60 hours a week as an associate, and even less now?

Is this really typical? So, the people whining about how their Big Law spouses are never home, where are those people?

I always assumed it was more like 4,000 a year based on what I read here. I am flabbergasted.

60 x 50 weeks (assume 2 weeks vacation) is 3k hours per year. OPs DH is doing 2800 hours per year (2k billable) which is pretty close to 60 hours per week.

But 60 hours a week isn't an insane workload like people make Big Law out to be. Especially given that a Big Law associate can afford to live close in so they don't have a terrible commute, does some of that work from home and can flex around family responsibilities, and gets to work sitting down.

I always assumed from the whining that Big Law associates were working 80 - 90 hour weeks. 60 is a pretty common work week.

It really is not. 60 hours a week on average is way more than most people do. Only a small percentage of people in finance, consulting, or senior executives put in these kind of hours, and they all tend to be very well compensated.

I have worked for government and in the private sector and rarely come across people who regularly have to do those kind of hours.

You are comparing big law to other overpaid cushy jobs.

I am comparing it to the jobs my family has. Law enforcement, education, working in the trades etc . . .