NVCC + guaranteed UVA transfer, or go to a less preferred 4-year?

[Anonymous]

Looking at this

https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/VCCS_TRF_Report.asp

You see that most transfer students from community colleges are going to GMU, VCU, ODU, not UVA. Lots of reasons for that, of course.

Only 180 students came from Northern VA CC to UVA compared to 2,522 freshmen enrolling, so not very common.

https://research.schev.edu//iProfile/234076/University-of-Virginia

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because many of us believe that college is an end in and of itself and not a means to an end. We want our kids to have the classic, full 4-year college experience. Not two years at home followed by two years at UVA.

In other words, obsessed with your kids and obsessed with prestige.

No, the opposite. Happy to send them to a non-prestigious 4 year school over trying to get into UVA by hook or by crook.

Why are we even arguing about this? You do you. We'll do us. I'm simply explaining the rationale behind our thinking.
I would rather our kids have a traditional 4 years at one school, even if it's a lower ranked school, rather than a 2/2 experience.
I value the 4 year experience, beginning with a freshman year in a dorm.

[Anonymous]

Getting the 4 year college experience, even at a non-elite college or university, is a valuable experience that many families are willing to pay for. Different families have different values which equates to different choices on how to spend their money and time. This is a pivotal time in young adults' lives.

There is nothing wrong with that. Just like there is nothing wrong with going to two year (or more) cc and then transferring to a 4 year university or choosing not to go to college.

UCSD actually has different dorms for transfer students. Which reflects (1) the high number of student in CA following this path and (2) an effort to build community for incoming transfer students as they are no longer one-offs. When I was an undergrad in the 80s, I had friends that were accepted to UCSD and (not sure the exact process) they deferred to establish CA residency. That is a hard path because the students have to be completely financially independent to establish residency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because many of us believe that college is an end in and of itself and not a means to an end. We want our kids to have the classic, full 4-year college experience. Not two years at home followed by two years at UVA.

In other words, obsessed with your kids and obsessed with prestige.

No, the opposite. Happy to send them to a non-prestigious 4 year school over trying to get into UVA by hook or by crook.

Why are we even arguing about this? You do you. We'll do us. I'm simply explaining the rationale behind our thinking.
I would rather our kids have a traditional 4 years at one school, even if it's a lower ranked school, rather than a 2/2 experience.
I value the 4 year experience, beginning with a freshman year in a dorm.

I, I, I, I...

Do your kids have any say in this?

[Anonymous]

I could care less about what others think about the CC route if it is going to be the best thing for my child and family.
The reason I'd probably select another option if I could afford it is that I think the residential part of college can be great and lead to a lot of social development.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A) because for most UMC and wealthy families there is a stigma (though there should not be) about community college
B) the classes you have to take and get a 3.5 in to be eligible will likely be difficult, so there’s no guarantee you’ll get into a better 4 year college than you would have just going straight through
C) it’s not just about the name on the degree. College is also about finding a community and creating friends and learning to live independently. Community colleges are commuter.

All of this. My sister's family is in California where the CC->UC path has a better reputation but the other challenges apply. My nephew opted for CC when he didn't get into his preferred UCs and the options were Cal States or UCs he didn't want. He was a strong student in HS but hit with a bad illness junior year that derailed his grades. Started CC planning to transfer to UC Davis. And then blew his first year of CC because he wasn't really investing in school, he had a job he liked and spent way too much time focused on that + a girlfriend who didn't go to college. He eventually pulled it together but now can't meet the UC transfer requirements and will be transferring to a Cal State, after spending a fifth semester at the CC repeating some of the classes he did really badly in his first. His transfer school does have a good program for what he wants but he could have gone there straight from HS and would have spent those two years developing relationships with professors, getting involved in campus activities or research projects, building up his social network, etc.

This kid would most likely also have crashed and burned if he'd done the "traditional" path of starting at Cal State or an "undesirable" UC. He is not a good example of why doing the community college to four year school path is not a good idea.

IMO, watching how it played out he absolutely would have done better starting at a 4 yr. His challenges came from not being focused on his primary job being a college student. He was hanging out with kids who were either not in school or didn't care much about it ( his main HS friend group moved away to college ) and had a job where most people didn't go to college and a supervisor who didn't care that he was in school. All things that would have been different if he was living at a 4-year college and working an on-campus job where they expect school to be your priority.

[Anonymous]

Answer: go to a less preferred 4-year university.
Most students are not as happy at community college. Less happy = they don't do as well.

[Anonymous]

College experience is overrated!
I know kids who went the NVCC route and transferred to Rice and Cornell besides the obvious UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A) because for most UMC and wealthy families there is a stigma (though there should not be) about community college
B) the classes you have to take and get a 3.5 in to be eligible will likely be difficult, so there’s no guarantee you’ll get into a better 4 year college than you would have just going straight through
C) it’s not just about the name on the degree. College is also about finding a community and creating friends and learning to live independently. Community colleges are commuter.

All of this. My sister's family is in California where the CC->UC path has a better reputation but the other challenges apply. My nephew opted for CC when he didn't get into his preferred UCs and the options were Cal States or UCs he didn't want. He was a strong student in HS but hit with a bad illness junior year that derailed his grades. Started CC planning to transfer to UC Davis. And then blew his first year of CC because he wasn't really investing in school, he had a job he liked and spent way too much time focused on that + a girlfriend who didn't go to college. He eventually pulled it together but now can't meet the UC transfer requirements and will be transferring to a Cal State, after spending a fifth semester at the CC repeating some of the classes he did really badly in his first. His transfer school does have a good program for what he wants but he could have gone there straight from HS and would have spent those two years developing relationships with professors, getting involved in campus activities or research projects, building up his social network, etc.

This kid would most likely also have crashed and burned if he'd done the "traditional" path of starting at Cal State or an "undesirable" UC. He is not a good example of why doing the community college to four year school path is not a good idea.

IMO, watching how it played out he absolutely would have done better starting at a 4 yr. His challenges came from not being focused on his primary job being a college student. He was hanging out with kids who were either not in school or didn't care much about it ( his main HS friend group moved away to college ) and had a job where most people didn't go to college and a supervisor who didn't care that he was in school. All things that would have been different if he was living at a 4-year college and working an on-campus job where they expect school to be your priority.

If he was "not investing in school" at the community college then he would have "not invested in school" at a four year. I saw it happen many times at a 4 year despite those kids living with other college kids. Some kids just aren't ready for college yet when they graduate from HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA has guaranteed transfer for students who attend community college and do well in classes.

This seems like a low-stress and lower cost way to earn a UVA degree, vs going into contortions to get a UVA first-year admit or going to a less preferred 4-year university.

Who has been there, done that? How are the tradeoffs?

Even if it's not for you, why isn't UVA flooded with people going this route? It's looks like an amazing side-door option. Is succeeding in community college harder than a UVA-wannago expects?

I teach at Nova and it is a great program, but UVA has many conditions in place that the other guaranteed transfers do not have. This means there is a lot of quality control, but it is difficult.

THis. The community college student has to know the required courses (mostly core, not electives) that need to be taken during the two years and the GPA required. A lot of the students don't pay attention and discover too late that they don't have the minimums. Every four year public in VA has its own set of minimums. Not every community college counselor has them all memorized so the student has to pay attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA has guaranteed transfer for students who attend community college and do well in classes.

This seems like a low-stress and lower cost way to earn a UVA degree, vs going into contortions to get a UVA first-year admit or going to a less preferred 4-year university.

Who has been there, done that? How are the tradeoffs?

Even if it's not for you, why isn't UVA flooded with people going this route? It's looks like an amazing side-door option. Is succeeding in community college harder than a UVA-wannago expects?

I teach at Nova and it is a great program, but UVA has many conditions in place that the other guaranteed transfers do not have. This means there is a lot of quality control, but it is difficult.

^^ Also, I believe the requirements for a transfer in from community college for engineering is different for Arts & Sciences.


THis. The community college student has to know the required courses (mostly core, not electives) that need to be taken during the two years and the GPA required. A lot of the students don't pay attention and discover too late that they don't have the minimums. Every four year public in VA has its own set of minimums. Not every community college counselor has them all memorized so the student has to pay attention.

^^ Also, I believe the requirements for a transfer in from community college for engineering is different for Arts & Sciences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A) because for most UMC and wealthy families there is a stigma (though there should not be) about community college
B) the classes you have to take and get a 3.5 in to be eligible will likely be difficult, so there’s no guarantee you’ll get into a better 4 year college than you would have just going straight through
C) it’s not just about the name on the degree. College is also about finding a community and creating friends and learning to live independently. Community colleges are commuter.

All of this. My sister's family is in California where the CC->UC path has a better reputation but the other challenges apply. My nephew opted for CC when he didn't get into his preferred UCs and the options were Cal States or UCs he didn't want. He was a strong student in HS but hit with a bad illness junior year that derailed his grades. Started CC planning to transfer to UC Davis. And then blew his first year of CC because he wasn't really investing in school, he had a job he liked and spent way too much time focused on that + a girlfriend who didn't go to college. He eventually pulled it together but now can't meet the UC transfer requirements and will be transferring to a Cal State, after spending a fifth semester at the CC repeating some of the classes he did really badly in his first. His transfer school does have a good program for what he wants but he could have gone there straight from HS and would have spent those two years developing relationships with professors, getting involved in campus activities or research projects, building up his social network, etc.

It is a great program. Unfortunately, the kids I knew who attempted this got distracted by work (making sometimes significant money) and general life. The most common situation I have seen is taking four years to get their associates and maybe not having the adequate GPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UVA has guaranteed transfer for students who attend community college and do well in classes.

This seems like a low-stress and lower cost way to earn a UVA degree, vs going into contortions to get a UVA first-year admit or going to a less preferred 4-year university.

Who has been there, done that? How are the tradeoffs?

Even if it's not for you, why isn't UVA flooded with people going this route? It's looks like an amazing side-door option. Is succeeding in community college harder than a UVA-wannago expects?

My perspective: the crappier the school, the harder the profs make it to get As. As you slide down the academic prestige ladder, professors sincerely believe BS like people should have to "work hard" to "earn" grades. (Meanwhile Harvard giving out As like they're participation trophies.)

For this reason, I would be careful thinking NVCC --> UVa is the easy path. But I would also ask myself if UVa is really worth the two-year CC struggle. You can get a good education at a lot of VA state schools, even GMU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Transferring was normal in the 80s and 90s around the country. Many people started at CC just to get the basic classes out of the way for less money. Maybe DCUM is full of people who grew up UMC. In the middle class, this was NBD. Paying extra for the social benefits is extremely privileged.

My kid didn’t get into UVA but did get into another top 10 public. It’s turned out to be cheaper than in state UVA but he is still considering coming closer to home. The unfortunate thing is that a 3.8 at a top 10 public has less of a chance getting in than a 3.8 from NVCC.

I don't think so. I grew up very middle class near Philadelphia and I can't think of anyone from my class (1992) who did this. Those of us who attended college all went to 4 year colleges out of high school--not super elite schools but 4 year schools. My husband grew up in North Jersey and this wasn't the norm at his high school either. Kids did not go to elite colleges but they went to 4 year colleges.

Maybe you didn’t have a big CC where you grew up. But if you were in PA, you know lots of kids who went to a PSU branch campus then transferred. Same idea. In the 80s and 90s those branch campuses were basically CC level.

DP: There was a major CC in the Chicago area where I grew up middle class (late 1980s) and none of the "college prep" students went to community college--that was, like it is now, most commonly the route for those not quite ready.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Looking at this

https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/VCCS_TRF_Report.asp

You see that most transfer students from community colleges are going to GMU, VCU, ODU, not UVA. Lots of reasons for that, of course.

Only 180 students came from Northern VA CC to UVA compared to 2,522 freshmen enrolling, so not very common.

https://research.schev.edu//iProfile/234076/University-of-Virginia

But it looks like half the transfers come from the Virginia community colleges. You can go to any of them for the guarantee, right?

NOVA is the most popular with Piedmont coming right behind.