There's no way that anyone on DCUrbanmoms is this crazy (right?)

[Anonymous]

I certainly wouldn't do this, but can't fault anyone who does. HOWEVER, I have read about people doing elimination communication who think it's totally fine to hold their baby over a sink in a public restroom and have them pee there, and that is absolutely not ok.

[Anonymous]

Adequate parent I'm surprised to see a post from you with a negative tone. Why are you worrying about what other parents are doing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Adequate parent I'm surprised to see a post from you with a negative tone. Why are you worrying about what other parents are doing?

I'm not surprised. Adequate parent says she does not have an agenda, but she does! It's only okay to parent adequately if it is the way SHE parents adequately. I turned sour on AP after she dealt out bad, unsolicited advice telling a breastfeeding mom looking for help to keep going to "cut yourself a break and give formula." (I'm paraphrasing).

Adequate parent seems to think that the other AP (attachment parent) is not adequate, nor advisable. I don't mind when folks have an agenda, but it's a bit annoying to play the "I'm so easy going" card...

FWIW, my family does not practice elimination communication, which is what this is referred to as, but have several friends, some "nutty" and others pretty darn mainstream, who swear by it. The idea is this: Going to the bathroom is a natural process, and we have decided that diapers are one acceptable way to make this process more convenient and sanitary. Folks who practice "EC" feel that it's equally or even more appropriate to try from an early age to acquaint the child with the way he or she will eliminate waste for the rest of her life instead of offering diapers and then making a huge change when the time is right. There are various degrees. There are some folks who go diaper free and say it works. I personally can't imagine it, but hey, whatever works. Others do it "part time" and basically do some naked time, so that when baby poops or pees, they can put them on a potty. We don't really have the motivation to do this, since I don't think diapers are a big deal and don't think toilet learning has to be traumatic. But I don't see why we have to call something crazy, or mock it by picking out the most extreme cases, or twist it and say it is a "fecal obsession," just because it isn't something we are interested in doing. I think adequate parent is actually kind of a shithead. No pun intended...

[Anonymous]

Oh HUGE eyeroll. It's not enough for this author to mock elimination communication, she also says that cloth diapers are JUST AS BAD for the environment as disposables.

Adequate parent, is this your buddy?

[Anonymous]

BTW, last two comments from same person (me).

[Anonymous]

At least Adequate Parent has the balls to NOT post anonymously.

[Anonymous]

I agree. 23:29, if you're going to call Adequate Parent a shithead, grow some ovaries, grab yourself a login name and do it publicly.

[Anonymous]

I never heard about this until a friend said she would place a potty and sing a song for her 5 month old whenever she seemed ready to poop. I don't think there's any long term benefit or harm to the baby in doing that, apart from savings if you're not buying diapers at all. I can always tell when DS will poop, because he quiets down instantly and lock his eyes, pierce his lips, so it would probably be fun to try this elimination thing. I wouldn't do it with him however because to me every phase has its time, and potty training is like a rite of passage to becoming more independant and reaching toddlerhood.
What was particularly vicious was the tone from this doctor who wrote the article. She's really on with her agenda against natural birth, attachment parenting, etc. and seemed pretty eager to disregard the facts and just be militant about her opinion:

In fact, "elimination communication" is a misnomer. It does not involve communication of any kind, since the child is incapable of expressing his views on the subject. It treats children like dogs. Show the dog/baby what you expect, disregard what the dog/baby might prefer, bestow approval or disappointment on the dog/baby until he or she learns to do it your way.

After this paragraph, I wondered if she also thinks CIO treats children like dogs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree. 23:29, if you're going to call Adequate Parent a shithead, grow some ovaries, grab yourself a login name and do it publicly.

do you really think that Adequate Parent posts under that login b/c she has a real good set of ovaries? Naivete is a wonderful, thing? She does so to attract interest in her blog.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:shame on you AP.
this method is very effective and it has been used in diff places all over the globe for centuries with great success.
I'm surprised you think it's "crazy".
Crazy is to watch Nestle and Pampers pushing their products onto those mothers, invading such countries trying to convince moms that formula is better than BM and that they should start using diapers on their children.

Agreed.

[Anonymous]

To adequateparent's defense:

In the USA--this is frickin' crazy. #1 what American has this much damn time? I understand that in cultures with no access or $ to diapers (albeit cloth or synthetic) this is a practice that is needed and built out of need.

Here in the states--I see it solely as 'competitive parenting'. We can add it to the 'I breastfed longer than you', etc. type of parent.

If you SAH and have one child and have all the time in the world to hover over your child looking for the slightest sign of a crap, e.g., red face, brow tensing...then go for it!

[Anonymous]

No shame here. None at all. I do not know Dr. Tuteur, but I find some of her articles thought provoking. Whoever was so outraged by her claim about environmental impact, I strongly encourage you to research it before you slam her. I don't know her, but I know that she uses the numbers and tries to be scientific. If you prove her wrong, post on her blog.

In fact, I do not think it's crazy to choose to teach your child to eliminate on a tree, in a bucket, as the Chinese, Latin American, many other people do. If your child shits best into a waffle cone, have at it. The child's comfort is no small thing and in different places and times has been achieved by different means.

I do think that it's absolutely batshit crazy to tell yourself that paper-training your child (and I agree with the doctor that this is operant conditioning) is a precious gift that you provide to him/her, enriching the experience of communicating with a three-month-old.

That's not plain old crap training. That's fetishization. It's not fetishizing the baby because it's not an unusually easy or comforting path for the baby. It's just a way of potty training. It's fetishization of motherhood. Every damned childcare method we can dream up for the kids is a "gift." It's nurturing, it's a gift, it's one more reason to be an enraptured mother. Ask your South American nanny or Chinese grandmother whether that elimination method was considered a precious part of the mother-child bond in their culture. Post the answer here.

Why do I care what the heck people do? Well, as applies to diapers, waffle-cone elimination, make money, don't, take off your shoes, leave them on, move to the suburbs, stay in DC, bring your baby to a movie, get a tattoo, call St. Incontinencia's Academy a "Big 3," it strikes me as ridiculous to care about those things.

This article rang my bell because it reminds me of those old commercials where women in heels and starched aprons thank their husbands for the magnanimous birthday gift of a genuine Hoover vacuum. We still do chores but we are no longer defined by them. We no longer let anyone kid themselves that we are elated to have new tools for domestic servitude.

Parenting is no mere chore-- everyone here knows how much more it is. But I really think that disposing of your kid's crap is a mere chore, and not a constituent part of the Magical Mothering Experience. Any way you want to do it is cool by me and should be cool by anyone whose business it is not (which is everyone). But these people make me want to wear a giant sign on my chest that says "please take me seriously, I care about something more than my baby's shit. Please buy my services. Please believe that mothering is a part of me but that I'm rational about it, and everything." I don't want my daughter to get the idea that parenting is for people who find emotional satisfaction in collaborative poo poo.

As for my motives here-- yes, I'd like to promote a blog, though I've often felt moved to reach out to someone as a distant friend-- like the mother of twins who was so down about her own outlook on life. I wish I knew her; through this board, I sort of do. I also want to test out theories to see whether other real parents agree or don't. You can't walk around in a bubble. Writing for money is a sporadic and often frustrating process. I use the time in between creative ventures and paid projects to learn and explore and practice.

As far as I can tell, there is a rich variety of motives for posting here. To seek help, to offer it, to express opinions, to stir up anger or provoke conversation, to vent. Apparently also to judge, to kick someone when she's down, to congratulate oneself for a good joke, to feel superior. I'm not in a position to judge which motives or worthy and which are not. Mine are transparent, and I am satisfied with that.

I have no idea of how my ovaries measure up to anyone else's. I have seen mine because my GYN took pictures of them while he was doing my tubal ligation (that several of you will probably claim was a blessing to the world and any future issue I might otherwise have produced). Would you believe that I never knew that they were white? Live and learn. They did get an absolutely clean bill of health, as did my uterus, which I knew was pretty good because my child was composing sonatinas at age 3 months (though that might be attributable to my breast milk and my doula's impressive collection of aromatic oils). Your ovaries might school mine, for all I know. That's fine-- I'm not using them anymore and they served me well the one time I needed them.

It was fun to have a grace period before the nasty-pants revolution started. I stand by my decision to post under an identifiable name. It's saved me from being as nasty as I have wanted to be on days when we were out of coffee or my clients were killing me or the DC Urban lionesses were taunting their prey with unusual ferocity. Unlike some others, I don't think that it ought to be required. For one thing, that would make divorce, abuse, and medical questions much harder to raise. For another, it would dampen the sociological richness of this of this place, and force me to lurk on playgrounds for material. As Obi Wan said, "a more wretched hive of scum and villainy you will never see." And that's what makes the ensuing scene so fascinating.

Peace

[Anonymous]

I'm going to gander that none of these parents take their children on any airplane trips for the first 6 months or more.

Could you imagine trying to rush to the lavatory..esp with a long line and the kid is leaking crap....aiiieehhyye!

[Anonymous]

My in-laws, from South Asia, think it's incredibly bizarre that I instantly sweep my infant away and (attempt to) nap her the instant she starts giving "sleepy cues."

I think it's bizarre that my MIL watches my child, who wears diapers, and tells me when she's about to pee or poop, advising me to remove the diaper so she can be "free."

We're all crazy in our own ways.

[Anonymous]

Why does anybody care what anybody else does with their children's urine and feces? Seriously -- who cares? What is gained from pointing fingers and going "ooh!! different!! crazy!!" Do it or don't do it, but there's no need to make fun of people. (And no, I don't do it.)