DD with PhD suddenly interested in becoming a patent attorney

[Anonymous]

https://www.indeed.com/career/patent-attorney/salaries

The actual likely salaries may not be that much more than she is making, and she would be taking on significant debt and the opportunity cost of not working for several years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does she have a PhD in CS? That's totally unnecessary. Does she work in academia? If so, she needs to jump to private industry to make more.

Law degree is a waste of time and money. Attorneys that make 500K hate their lives. My friends in patent law were making less than me starting out in pharma sales.

I don't understand this comment. She went to one of the best universities in the world and got a PhD in an area she's interested in.

She didn't go into academia because she said she didn't want to publish all the time. I think she should go into academia, but now she's got this patent law idea planted in her head.

Academia is not the way to make a decent living. My wife was making 65K in academia as a STEM researcher with a PhD (in a miserable dysfunctional atmosphere). She switched to industry and quickly doubled her salary. Which still isn’t crazy money, but she loves her work and it’s enough for a good life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friend, a patent attorney, says in order to make good money, you have to be great at getting customers.

Is she up to it?

No, I doubt it. She's quite introverted. She's a typical nerd.

Law firms value people who can bring in clients.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD has a stem PhD from a very competitive program. She's doing fine as a researcher, but doesn't make a lot of money. She likes the work, but can't afford to buy a house. Someone told her that she could make $500k or more as a patent attorney. Suddenly, she thinks she wants a law degree.
I want to encourage her, but is this a good idea? She's smart, so would get into a good school, but would it be worth it?

Most patent attorneys make FAR LESS than $500k and her degree is not in a more specialized, lucrative area. I'd have her reach out to her program career services office for advice and possibly names of alumns to reach out to. Law school is expensive and there is the opportunity cost of not working if go full time, 3 years. A night program, like Georgetown, is longer. She needs a far more realistic sense of options and tradeoffs.

What are the more specialized, lucrative areas? Her degree is CS, but her specialty is something more complicated (I have no idea what it is, TBH. I barely passed algebra.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friend, a patent attorney, says in order to make good money, you have to be great at getting customers.

Is she up to it?

No, I doubt it. She's quite introverted. She's a typical nerd.

Law firms value people who can bring in clients.

Could she work in house? A friend's son works as a patent attorney for a pharmaceutical company. (I have no idea how much money he makes, though.) Or for the USPTO?

[Anonymous]

Do your DD has an undergrad degree plus 4-5 year PHD and now wants to go to law school for 3 years? Plus three prob a gap year in there while she prepares?

If it’s only fir the money “ heard she could make $500k” I would try to get her to reconsider. I’d only pursue this if she really wanted to be a patent lawyer.
Be cause What happens if she’s still not fulfilled…. After 12 years of school?

[Anonymous]

OP your daughter sounds like my son, he has a CS degree but after working a couple of years he wants to pursue something else. And his new idea is not as financially lucrative, so we are encouraging him to continue to work, make good money and save until he decides on his next plan.

He is only 26, so we support him and tell him that it’s not too late to start over. but at some point it will be. DH and I think my sons issue is that he thinks he doesn’t like working this job but it is probably just that he doesn’t like working at all. We think our nerdy kid just doesn’t want to grow up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She’s an adult let her figure this out.

I know. But I'm curious. I'd like to have something to say to her when she brings it up. I've been (subtly) encouraging her to go into academia, but she says she has no interest in academia. She enjoyed being a TA, and she's even an adjunct at a college near where she works. I'm wondering what it takes to be a patent attorney. She worked really hard to get her PhD and thinks she should make more money. She doesn't want to work for FAANG, for some reason I can't figure out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do your DD has an undergrad degree plus 4-5 year PHD and now wants to go to law school for 3 years? Plus three prob a gap year in there while she prepares?

If it’s only fir the money “ heard she could make $500k” I would try to get her to reconsider. I’d only pursue this if she really wanted to be a patent lawyer.
Be cause What happens if she’s still not fulfilled…. After 12 years of school?

Yeah, good question!!

I can't really influence her, as she is an adult. If I could, she'd be an academic, but she's resisted that. She worked in a lab at her university for a year, and loved every second of it, but hated being so poorly paid. Now, she makes a decent living working in private industry, but nowhere near $500k.

What are the skills/talents that make a good patent lawyer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP your daughter sounds like my son, he has a CS degree but after working a couple of years he wants to pursue something else. And his new idea is not as financially lucrative, so we are encouraging him to continue to work, make good money and save until he decides on his next plan.

He is only 26, so we support him and tell him that it’s not too late to start over. but at some point it will be. DH and I think my sons issue is that he thinks he doesn’t like working this job but it is probably just that he doesn’t like working at all. We think our nerdy kid just doesn’t want to grow up.

If your son is like my DD, he might just be bored. (My DD is 28, btw.)
I think DD is bored by her job, even though she likes it, and likes her colleagues. But her PhD program was incredibly intense, and I think working at that intellectual level does something to your brain that makes the ordinary working world seem too tedious and mundane. It's a conundrum because DD was tired after working so hard on her PhD, so her current job is a bit of a break, yet she's bored (IHMO), so is starting to feel restless. I think the money is just an excuse -- she needs to feel excited about something again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She’s an adult let her figure this out.

I know. But I'm curious. I'd like to have something to say to her when she brings it up. I've been (subtly) encouraging her to go into academia, but she says she has no interest in academia. She enjoyed being a TA, and she's even an adjunct at a college near where she works. I'm wondering what it takes to be a patent attorney. She worked really hard to get her PhD and thinks she should make more money. She doesn't want to work for FAANG, for some reason I can't figure out.

Is your daughter in the DMV? First step first. There are many IP firms in DC area. She should try and see if she can use her contacts to talk with some of their actual work and lives.

[Anonymous]

She's not in the DMV. I'll suggest she contact the career services office at her former university. I'm sure there are IP attorneys who are alums she could contact if she wants to. She doesn't really like it when I suggest anything to her, tho. (She's 28 going on 17!!)

[Anonymous]

CS person here. You can get a decent job and make big bucks with just a bachelor's. Sounds like she has a specialized PhD, so I bet she already knows the big company players in her particular area of specialty. They are the companies that go to and present at the same conferences she attends. I bet they're hiring, and they will pay well for PhDs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She’s an adult let her figure this out.

I know. But I'm curious. I'd like to have something to say to her when she brings it up. I've been (subtly) encouraging her to go into academia, but she says she has no interest in academia. She enjoyed being a TA, and she's even an adjunct at a college near where she works. I'm wondering what it takes to be a patent attorney. She worked really hard to get her PhD and thinks she should make more money. She doesn't want to work for FAANG, for some reason I can't figure out.

I know quite a few people who went down the academia path and realized too late how genuinely horrible it can be. Academic in fighting, back stabbing, budget BS, whiney students who don't care, red tape -- all for zero bucks. Not a small number of these people went to law school, crushed it and are making big bucks. The life is still miserable, but at least they get paid. They miss the dream of movie style academia, but that fantasy is just that: fantasy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:CS person here. You can get a decent job and make big bucks with just a bachelor's. Sounds like she has a specialized PhD, so I bet she already knows the big company players in her particular area of specialty. They are the companies that go to and present at the same conferences she attends. I bet they're hiring, and they will pay well for PhDs.

But they don't because they don't have too. Sadly academia sets the standard that this person is willing to accept much lower pay for the "love of it." As a PhD myself I'd argue that the degree lowers your worth in the private sector. That said, everyone has to earn their keep. You'll earn similar wages as a bachelor degree with no real world experience (because you also have none as a PhD). It takes years to build up your worth whether you have a law degree or not. They longer she is a student the higher her debt, the lower her wages.