Savings with an EV?

[Anonymous]

EV is kinda like smart phone. Do it now or do it later or keep having a flip phone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as you only charge at home it’s cheaper though cars start off more expensive

And doubt you can keep Tesla running 15 years like my Honda.

We bought our 2019 Bolt in early 2021 for $19k. It wasn’t much more expensive than similar ICE vehicles.

Why wouldn’t a Tesla be running after 15 years?

Sure a Bolt is probably similar to a Civic, but you are comparing a Chevy to a Honda and paying a premium? Lots of things can fail besides engine/batteries — those are the bits to worry about. Honestly my parents had GM, and anything electrical (windows, alternator, power seat) were always failing — and now the DRIVETRAIN is electrical?

Homda’s EV lineup was pretty light in 2021.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think EVs are fabulous. I'm just waiting til national infrastructure catches up a bit more. I travel a lot, and to places there aren't many public charging stations.

Tesla's network is extensive. We drive ours all over with no issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think EVs are fabulous. I'm just waiting til national infrastructure catches up a bit more. I travel a lot, and to places there aren't many public charging stations.

Tesla's network is extensive. We drive ours all over with no issues.

We've taken ours as far south as Hilton Head, and up to Connecticut to the North. We regularly drive to NYC in our Tesla. I like it much more than I thought I would, and I don't miss gas stations at all. At home, I plug it in the wall in my garage, and I haven't noticed a bump in my electric bill, although I'm sure it's there, it's just not that noticeable.

[Anonymous]

Keep drinking from the EV juice tub.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-truck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Keep drinking from the EV juice tub.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-truck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times

The guy in this story is, to use a technical term, an idiot. No one made him buy the absolute most expensive trim line of F150 Lightning, no one "compelled" him to install a charger at his work, no one made him buy an EV without checking to see if his home electrical panel needed a heavy-up, no one forced him to do absolutely no planning for his road trips, if he had fast-charged to 80 percent instead of 90 percent it would have been much faster (charging from 80 percent to 100 percent can take as long or longer than charging from 0 percent to 80 percent), fast-charging is not usually more expensive than gas, and body shops are still backed up no matter what fuel the vehicles use.

This is just clickbait for Fox News readers who want to think EVs are terrible. I promise you as someone who has taken an EV on road trips (including to areas where the charging infrastructure is bad), they're not a scam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keep drinking from the EV juice tub.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-truck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times

The guy in this story is, to use a technical term, an idiot. No one made him buy the absolute most expensive trim line of F150 Lightning, no one "compelled" him to install a charger at his work, no one made him buy an EV without checking to see if his home electrical panel needed a heavy-up, no one forced him to do absolutely no planning for his road trips, if he had fast-charged to 80 percent instead of 90 percent it would have been much faster (charging from 80 percent to 100 percent can take as long or longer than charging from 0 percent to 80 percent), fast-charging is not usually more expensive than gas, and body shops are still backed up no matter what fuel the vehicles use.

This is just clickbait for Fox News readers who want to think EVs are terrible. I promise you as someone who has taken an EV on road trips (including to areas where the charging infrastructure is bad), they're not a scam.

Another Jim Jones believer

[Anonymous]

The financial case for an EV can be very compelling. I just bought one. I have no idea how it could be thousands to install a charger on top of thousands to heavy up the panel.

The charger cost 600 and I could have paid half for one that is very well reviewed. I paid 400 dollars in parts and labor for the install. I could have saved 100 bucks if I hadn’t splurged on the install location.

The car this one is replacing was bigger, a 3 row mid sized SUV. This is a compact SUV that is AWD. The old car cost about $0.18 per mile to drive in gasoline. My power company charges me $0.16 for every extra kWh I consume over my current consumption (it starts out less, but the marginal rate above a certain amount is fixed).

I can go about 3 miles on a kWh of energy. There is waste in the charging system, so let’s take 10% for that. Even factoring in that waste, cost per mile is just under $0.06/mile. To use a high speed charger on the road, the price goes up to about $0.12/mile, but there’s more waste so let’s call it 0.15… but here’s the thing, you shouldn’t charge on high speed chargers that often because they’re bad for the battery.

But, that’s not all, I don’t have to spend the money on maintaining an internal combustion engine or transmission. EVs are remarkably simple. No spark plugs, 12v battery, oil, transmission, radiator, water pump, etc etc.

I also save time. I don’t have to go to a gas station ever or spend as much time getting routine service and repairs.

Including this one, I’ve purchased 4 cars in the last 19 years, 3 of which are still in service in my family. At $43,000 for a low mileage 1 model year old car, it’s the second cheapest I’ve purchased. Which means, I would have been likely to spend this much or more on a ICE powered car.

I looked at 3 other EVs, a Prius, hybrid SUVs, and looked at plug in hybrids from multiple manufacturers. I also looked at a range of ICE SUVs.

Ultimately, being able to spend around the same capex to lower opex significantly and increase time savings made all the difference.

The only car that came close from an opex standpoint was the Prius. You can get almost the same cost per mile at $3.50 a gallon (0.075-0.09 per mile depending on driving style). And you’d start saving money cost per mile below around 3.25. But then you still have more routine maintenance on a Prius, though really small risk of repairs. I just didn’t like the Prius as much. To get one with comparable features to the EV of the same model year, I would have saved a few thousand. That said, new Priuses are still going for thousands above MSRP - so competition is fierce both used and new. And I didn’t want to try that hard to still be left with a Prius. And I wanted to sit higher, have AWD, and more interior space.

If I had to pay thousands for a heavy up, I wouldn’t have done it. But those numbers seemed heavily skewed. I’ve had residential heavy ups done and they cost less than 6000.

They are not good long road trip cars right now, considering the lack of high speed chargers at restaurants/rest stops and the lack of level 2 chargers at hotels. You will add about 40 minutes of charging time to get the miles most cars can get with a tank of gas - but you get to start your first leg with a full tank with no extra time. Basically for trips of less than 400 miles, it will be a minimal annoyance, but for trips over 400 miles it will become an inconvenience. I could have gotten a longer range, but opted for an AWD I liked rather than other models. We go on maybe 1 road trip over 400 miles every 2-3 years, so it was a trade off I could make.

I didn’t pay a premium for the EV, I sacrificed size, versatility/road trip ability, and features instead.

On the opex side, I will be cutting about 200 bucks in gas (I drive a LOT) out per month. In addition to the costs of avoided maintenance and service. Insurance went up about 400 bucks per year, but I priced other similarly priced cars and it was less than 100 bucks difference (it was like 8 or 9 dollars a month, I don’t really remember). I think the cost to insure EVs is a bit of a myth. They’re just relatively expensive cars and expensive cars cost more to insure than less expensive cars.

Will I be printing money from the savings on net? No, but I am still saving money over the lifetime of the car. I like being an early adopter, but I don’t want to pay a big premium. I had expected to buy an EV in the next 2 years but didn’t want to purchase this soon, but extenuating circumstances made buying a new car a necessity.

Some risks to my savings on net are: premature failure of battery or motor, rapid depreciation at the 8 year mark, other unanticipated problems of new tech that hasn’t yet shown the test of time. But, you can’t eliminate that sort of risk. New model years of ICE cars turn out to be disasters all the time. You can’t live your life in fear of all risks.

The risks seemed manageable, the most likely financial scenario was compelling, and I wanted one.

BTW- they’re extremely fun to drive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The financial case for an EV can be very compelling. I just bought one. I have no idea how it could be thousands to install a charger on top of thousands to heavy up the panel.

The charger cost 600 and I could have paid half for one that is very well reviewed. I paid 400 dollars in parts and labor for the install. I could have saved 100 bucks if I hadn’t splurged on the install location.

The car this one is replacing was bigger, a 3 row mid sized SUV. This is a compact SUV that is AWD. The old car cost about $0.18 per mile to drive in gasoline. My power company charges me $0.16 for every extra kWh I consume over my current consumption (it starts out less, but the marginal rate above a certain amount is fixed).

I can go about 3 miles on a kWh of energy. There is waste in the charging system, so let’s take 10% for that. Even factoring in that waste, cost per mile is just under $0.06/mile. To use a high speed charger on the road, the price goes up to about $0.12/mile, but there’s more waste so let’s call it 0.15… but here’s the thing, you shouldn’t charge on high speed chargers that often because they’re bad for the battery.

But, that’s not all, I don’t have to spend the money on maintaining an internal combustion engine or transmission. EVs are remarkably simple. No spark plugs, 12v battery, oil, transmission, radiator, water pump, etc etc.

I also save time. I don’t have to go to a gas station ever or spend as much time getting routine service and repairs.

Including this one, I’ve purchased 4 cars in the last 19 years, 3 of which are still in service in my family. At $43,000 for a low mileage 1 model year old car, it’s the second cheapest I’ve purchased. Which means, I would have been likely to spend this much or more on a ICE powered car.

I looked at 3 other EVs, a Prius, hybrid SUVs, and looked at plug in hybrids from multiple manufacturers. I also looked at a range of ICE SUVs.

Ultimately, being able to spend around the same capex to lower opex significantly and increase time savings made all the difference.

The only car that came close from an opex standpoint was the Prius. You can get almost the same cost per mile at $3.50 a gallon (0.075-0.09 per mile depending on driving style). And you’d start saving money cost per mile below around 3.25. But then you still have more routine maintenance on a Prius, though really small risk of repairs. I just didn’t like the Prius as much. To get one with comparable features to the EV of the same model year, I would have saved a few thousand. That said, new Priuses are still going for thousands above MSRP - so competition is fierce both used and new. And I didn’t want to try that hard to still be left with a Prius. And I wanted to sit higher, have AWD, and more interior space.

If I had to pay thousands for a heavy up, I wouldn’t have done it. But those numbers seemed heavily skewed. I’ve had residential heavy ups done and they cost less than 6000.

They are not good long road trip cars right now, considering the lack of high speed chargers at restaurants/rest stops and the lack of level 2 chargers at hotels. You will add about 40 minutes of charging time to get the miles most cars can get with a tank of gas - but you get to start your first leg with a full tank with no extra time. Basically for trips of less than 400 miles, it will be a minimal annoyance, but for trips over 400 miles it will become an inconvenience. I could have gotten a longer range, but opted for an AWD I liked rather than other models. We go on maybe 1 road trip over 400 miles every 2-3 years, so it was a trade off I could make.

I didn’t pay a premium for the EV, I sacrificed size, versatility/road trip ability, and features instead.

On the opex side, I will be cutting about 200 bucks in gas (I drive a LOT) out per month. In addition to the costs of avoided maintenance and service. Insurance went up about 400 bucks per year, but I priced other similarly priced cars and it was less than 100 bucks difference (it was like 8 or 9 dollars a month, I don’t really remember). I think the cost to insure EVs is a bit of a myth. They’re just relatively expensive cars and expensive cars cost more to insure than less expensive cars.

Will I be printing money from the savings on net? No, but I am still saving money over the lifetime of the car. I like being an early adopter, but I don’t want to pay a big premium. I had expected to buy an EV in the next 2 years but didn’t want to purchase this soon, but extenuating circumstances made buying a new car a necessity.

Some risks to my savings on net are: premature failure of battery or motor, rapid depreciation at the 8 year mark, other unanticipated problems of new tech that hasn’t yet shown the test of time. But, you can’t eliminate that sort of risk. New model years of ICE cars turn out to be disasters all the time. You can’t live your life in fear of all risks.

The risks seemed manageable, the most likely financial scenario was compelling, and I wanted one.

BTW- they’re extremely fun to drive.

You have too much time on your hands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Keep drinking from the EV juice tub.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-truck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times

Did this guy do ANY research before he dropped 85K (in USD) on that F-150???

He thought he could go camping way off road in it? Did he plan to bring a 5 gallon container of electricity to refuel the truck?

He decided to road trip through vast western states where charging is very limited? Did he even look at a charging map?

Now, he thinks it's a 'scam'...because he can't figure it out.

It's not a scam. It's just not for everyone's situation at this moment in time. I did my research (before spending about 50k LESS than he did ) and got the right (used) vehicle for me. I have a PHEV, a 2017 Chevy Volt, which I charge at home. I am using about 2/3 less gas on my long commute (I get about 45-50 miles on the battery on my 75 mile RT commute). I did some basic research before I got this.

Of course, some Fox watcher at work, first day I drove it, said 'aren't you worried its going to catch fire?' I'm like dude you have never seen a ICE on fire? They do that, no I'm not worried.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The financial case for an EV can be very compelling. I just bought one. I have no idea how it could be thousands to install a charger on top of thousands to heavy up the panel.

The charger cost 600 and I could have paid half for one that is very well reviewed. I paid 400 dollars in parts and labor for the install. I could have saved 100 bucks if I hadn’t splurged on the install location.

The car this one is replacing was bigger, a 3 row mid sized SUV. This is a compact SUV that is AWD. The old car cost about $0.18 per mile to drive in gasoline. My power company charges me $0.16 for every extra kWh I consume over my current consumption (it starts out less, but the marginal rate above a certain amount is fixed).

I can go about 3 miles on a kWh of energy. There is waste in the charging system, so let’s take 10% for that. Even factoring in that waste, cost per mile is just under $0.06/mile. To use a high speed charger on the road, the price goes up to about $0.12/mile, but there’s more waste so let’s call it 0.15… but here’s the thing, you shouldn’t charge on high speed chargers that often because they’re bad for the battery.

But, that’s not all, I don’t have to spend the money on maintaining an internal combustion engine or transmission. EVs are remarkably simple. No spark plugs, 12v battery, oil, transmission, radiator, water pump, etc etc.

I also save time. I don’t have to go to a gas station ever or spend as much time getting routine service and repairs.

Including this one, I’ve purchased 4 cars in the last 19 years, 3 of which are still in service in my family. At $43,000 for a low mileage 1 model year old car, it’s the second cheapest I’ve purchased. Which means, I would have been likely to spend this much or more on a ICE powered car.

I looked at 3 other EVs, a Prius, hybrid SUVs, and looked at plug in hybrids from multiple manufacturers. I also looked at a range of ICE SUVs.

Ultimately, being able to spend around the same capex to lower opex significantly and increase time savings made all the difference.

The only car that came close from an opex standpoint was the Prius. You can get almost the same cost per mile at $3.50 a gallon (0.075-0.09 per mile depending on driving style). And you’d start saving money cost per mile below around 3.25. But then you still have more routine maintenance on a Prius, though really small risk of repairs. I just didn’t like the Prius as much. To get one with comparable features to the EV of the same model year, I would have saved a few thousand. That said, new Priuses are still going for thousands above MSRP - so competition is fierce both used and new. And I didn’t want to try that hard to still be left with a Prius. And I wanted to sit higher, have AWD, and more interior space.

If I had to pay thousands for a heavy up, I wouldn’t have done it. But those numbers seemed heavily skewed. I’ve had residential heavy ups done and they cost less than 6000.

They are not good long road trip cars right now, considering the lack of high speed chargers at restaurants/rest stops and the lack of level 2 chargers at hotels. You will add about 40 minutes of charging time to get the miles most cars can get with a tank of gas - but you get to start your first leg with a full tank with no extra time. Basically for trips of less than 400 miles, it will be a minimal annoyance, but for trips over 400 miles it will become an inconvenience. I could have gotten a longer range, but opted for an AWD I liked rather than other models. We go on maybe 1 road trip over 400 miles every 2-3 years, so it was a trade off I could make.

I didn’t pay a premium for the EV, I sacrificed size, versatility/road trip ability, and features instead.

On the opex side, I will be cutting about 200 bucks in gas (I drive a LOT) out per month. In addition to the costs of avoided maintenance and service. Insurance went up about 400 bucks per year, but I priced other similarly priced cars and it was less than 100 bucks difference (it was like 8 or 9 dollars a month, I don’t really remember). I think the cost to insure EVs is a bit of a myth. They’re just relatively expensive cars and expensive cars cost more to insure than less expensive cars.

Will I be printing money from the savings on net? No, but I am still saving money over the lifetime of the car. I like being an early adopter, but I don’t want to pay a big premium. I had expected to buy an EV in the next 2 years but didn’t want to purchase this soon, but extenuating circumstances made buying a new car a necessity.

Some risks to my savings on net are: premature failure of battery or motor, rapid depreciation at the 8 year mark, other unanticipated problems of new tech that hasn’t yet shown the test of time. But, you can’t eliminate that sort of risk. New model years of ICE cars turn out to be disasters all the time. You can’t live your life in fear of all risks.

The risks seemed manageable, the most likely financial scenario was compelling, and I wanted one.

BTW- they’re extremely fun to drive.

You have too much time on your hands.

Exactly my point. All this time now that I don’t go to the gas station or mechanics shop. I can write dissertations for the world to consume on DCUM. You are welcome.

[Anonymous]

We save around $200 a month in gas.

[Anonymous]

Junk

[Anonymous]

I am hesitant because I heard from a tesla insider who works for the company
The chargers have issues and are low quality
The car has to be towed by a tesla tow company or you void the warranty
If you use a charging station then you can be charged for leaving your car for too long

Every battery has a lifespan. Just look at the warranty

You need a lot of money if you are going to purchase one

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Washington Post just did an article about this. The savings depend on where you live.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/interactive/2023/electric-vehicle-charging-price-vs-gasoline

In Washington state, with prices around $4.98 per gallon of gas, it costs about $115 to fill up an F-150 which delivers 483 miles of range.

By contrast, recharging the electric F-150 Lightning (or Rivian R1T) to cover an equivalent distance costs about $34 — an $80 savings. This assumes, as the Energy Department estimates, drivers recharge at home 80 percent of the time, along with other methodological assumptions at the end of this article.

But what about the other extreme? In the Southeast, which has low gas prices and electricity rates, savings are lower but still significant. In Mississippi, for example, a conventional pickup costs about $30 more to refuel than its electric counterpart. For smaller, more efficient SUVs and sedans, EVs save roughly $20 to $25 per fill-up to cover the same number of miles.

An American driving the average 14,000 miles per year would see annual savings of roughly $700 for an electric SUV or sedan up to $1,000 for a pickup, according to Energy Innovation.

[QUOTE]Ultimately, we may never agree on what it costs to refuel an electric vehicle. That may not matter. For the everyday driver in the United States, it’s already cheaper to refuel an EV most of the time, and it’s expected to get cheaper as renewable capacity expands and vehicle efficiency improves.

The sticker price for some EVs is expected to fall below comparable gasoline cars as soon as this year, and estimates of the total cost of ownership — maintenance, fuel and other costs over a vehicle’s lifetime — suggest EVs are already cheaper.

So the greenwashing EV lobby wants us to just depend on magical thinking and hopes and dreams and just really try really hard to think that EVs are more effective?