How exactly do children get selected for AAP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you think your 1st grader needs AAP so badly?

Why do so many people on this forum (and beyond) want to get in?

It used to be that part of why parents wanted AAP is to avoid the disruptive kids, but now there are also disruptive kids in AAP (because the parents of the disruptive kids feel the same, ironically).

[Anonymous]

Vienna Mom here. Bus stop talk for years was get your DC to certain child psychologist to administer an IQ test and or keep this specialist on speed dial should you need to get in on appeal.

Teacher can refer. So can principal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody knows exactly what the committee is looking for and a lot has changed in the past 2 years. It’s a holistic approach now so it all matters (scores, GBRS, work samples) and students are compared with peers at their local school. In-pool Scores will be higher at higher SES, where parents are known to prep and lower at lower SES schools, where fewer kids are prepped, but anyone can refer and in-pool only gets you a packet made, just like a parent referral would.

I think you’d be insane to rent in a lower performing school just for the purpose of trying to game the system, but nothing surprises me on this forum anymore.

Why do you think your 1st grader needs AAP so badly?

NP. This is such a typical DCUM question and it's a big reason that AAP was removed from the general VA/FCPS Forum (not to provide a private helping-to-get-in forum). Posters just can't help themselves, they have to attack posters regarding AAP.

I’m the PP and I’m not attacking anyone. My kids are already in AAP so clearly I’m not anti-AAP. A rising 1st grader is young to know whether or not a kid needs AAP. Given the lengths this poster seems to want to go to get their kid in, including moving virtually anywhere in FCPS to game the system for best chances, I do think it’s a reasonable follow-up to to ask why their 6-yr old so desperately needs this program.

I am the OP and personally I don't think your q is reasonable. It's none of your business why I want my child in AAP or why I think they belong there. And to clarify, I'm not looking to move into a low performing school in order to get into AAP. I am just curious and asking questions in order to better understand how it all works.

NP- obviously you don’t have to answer. However, your reasons might have made me give different tips or responses.

Without more all I could say is hope for good test scores then apply and see.

[Anonymous]

AAP kids are collectively nervous wrecks, anxiety ridden and obnoxious, just like their parents.

2E - ugh!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AAP kids are collectively nervous wrecks, anxiety ridden and obnoxious, just like their parents.

2E - ugh!

And you aren't obnoxious at all, spending your time trolling an AAP thread. People have different values, why does it bother you what AAP parents do or want?

Assuming not all parents are obsessed with achievement and social comparison, can't blame parents for being nervous wrecks given how messed up the public schools are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NNAT/CoGat score get you in the running, and teacher's recommendation is very important.

AAP admission has no fixed percentage, some school has more AAP students than others, they don't have a quota. You should definitely buy in a good pyramid and let everything else to fall in place. Game the system by attending a lower performing school is ... self-defeating.

OP here. Thanks. This is what we're hoping to do. Wasn't so much looking to game the system by going to a lower performing school but trying to consider all variables in a still-crazy housing market. We might not be able to buy in the neighborhood that would get DC in the center elementary we like.

Do parents still submit work samples if referring?

Yes parent submitted home samples are still an optional part of the application. There are some examples on the fcps website and the info session by your school’s AART will also include more details about what kinds of samples they like

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, of course AAP is going to be be harder to get into at certain high SES schools, because the average kid there is so much more prepared and so the average classroom is also much more advanced. AAP represents enrichment beyond what is possible with the average classroom/cohort. We are at Churchill Rd and the average Cogat/scores for example to get into AAP feels higher than higher than some of the other schools (anecdotal) but that’s fine because that means the average curriculum/classroom is also more advanced! Buying a home in a lower performing school district seems insane for this reason.

I see people lamenting that it's harder to get in at a very high SES school. Why do people want their kids in AAP at these schools if they are providing ample enrichment in the non-AAP classrooms?

Because they aren’t providing ample enrichment in non-AAP classrooms, despite that being the FCPS line. It’s certainly better than other schools but still not enough for many kids. In the current rising 3rd-5th grades they’re also still catching kids up academically and there are significant behavioral issues lingering from covid. That issue won’t last forever but it’s real now, even in high SES schools. Finally, the GenEd classes in high SES schools aren’t getting advanced math in 5th, which is when they cover 2 years in 1 (5th and 6th grade math) in AAP. When you have kids testing at 99% who still can’t access advanced math, you get a lot of ticked off parents.

[Anonymous]

OP, this overview may be helpful for you.

https://oakhilles.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/inline-files/Copy%20of%20Level%20IV%20Screening%20for%20FCPS%20familes%202018-19.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, this overview may be helpful for you.

https://oakhilles.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/inline-
files/Copy%20of%20Level%20IV%20Screening%20for%20FCPS%20familes%202018-19.pdf

Wow, this is great! Thanks.

[Anonymous]

For the most part, if your kid has test scores around the 96th percentile or higher, and your kid is above grade level in both math and language arts, your kid will probably get admitted. Some kids who have lower scores, or have high scores in just one area, with lower in the other will get in. If they think a kid is disadvantaged, or if something in the kid's work samples really stands out, then they'll let a kid in who on paper doesn't have the stats.

Some kids with 99th percentile scores across the board and who are advanced in every subject will get rejected. Sometimes, the teacher doesn't understand the kid and gives a low GBRS. Sometimes, the kid still has a high GBRS, and the rejection is a mystery to the teachers and AART.

The conventional wisdom is that 50% of appeals are accepted. Keep in mind, though, that people only tend to appeal if they think they have a strong case. Most of the kids admitted on appeal ought to have been selected the first time and already had the high test scores or high GBRS.

There is no magic ticket and no real way to "buy a diagnosis" like the troll keeps suggesting. If your kid is solidly in the top 20% of their 2nd grade cohort, there's a decent chance that they'll be admitted. If they're not admitted in 2nd, they'll probably get in in 3rd or 4th. If anything, FCPS errs by admitting entirely too many kids who aren't especially advanced. If your kid is 2+ years above grade level, they will likely find AAP pretty slow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the most part, if your kid has test scores around the 96th percentile or higher, and your kid is above grade level in both math and language arts, your kid will probably get admitted. Some kids who have lower scores, or have high scores in just one area, with lower in the other will get in. If they think a kid is disadvantaged, or if something in the kid's work samples really stands out, then they'll let a kid in who on paper doesn't have the stats.

Some kids with 99th percentile scores across the board and who are advanced in every subject will get rejected. Sometimes, the teacher doesn't understand the kid and gives a low GBRS. Sometimes, the kid still has a high GBRS, and the rejection is a mystery to the teachers and AART.

The conventional wisdom is that 50% of appeals are accepted. Keep in mind, though, that people only tend to appeal if they think they have a strong case. Most of the kids admitted on appeal ought to have been selected the first time and already had the high test scores or high GBRS.

There is no magic ticket and no real way to "buy a diagnosis" like the troll keeps suggesting. If your kid is solidly in the top 20% of their 2nd grade cohort, there's a decent chance that they'll be admitted. If they're not admitted in 2nd, they'll probably get in in 3rd or 4th. If anything, FCPS errs by admitting entirely too many kids who aren't especially advanced. If your kid is 2+ years above grade level, they will likely find AAP pretty slow.

Thanks, this is a really helpful response!

[Anonymous]

Friend’s kid at low SES school. 99 percentile cogat. Rejected AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Friend’s kid at low SES school. 99 percentile cogat. Rejected AAP.

I knew a few kids that were rejected with scores in the 97th - 99th percentile rejected from AAP. All of them appealed and only one got in. Guess which one? The one with scores in the 99th percentile. We're in a mid level SES area btw.
If you are not an URM scores in the mid/upper 90th percentile will certainly get you in. White/Asian, no chance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Friend’s kid at low SES school. 99 percentile cogat. Rejected AAP.

I knew a few kids that were rejected with scores in the 97th - 99th percentile rejected from AAP. All of them appealed and only one got in. Guess which one? The one with scores in the 99th percentile. We're in a mid level SES area btw.
If you are not an URM scores in the mid/upper 90th percentile will certainly get you in. White/Asian, no chance.

This makes me really curious to know what percent of say 2nd graders in FCPS is in this range (90th-99th). It must be the case that 99th is not sufficiently discriminating if a child from a low SES school can score that way and not get in.

Isn't it the case that they need to be in the top 20% at their school? Maybe in a given lower SES school you still may have 30% who score this way on the COGAT. Lower SES doesn't mean most kids are doing poorly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Friend’s kid at low SES school. 99 percentile cogat. Rejected AAP.

I knew a few kids that were rejected with scores in the 97th - 99th percentile rejected from AAP. All of them appealed and only one got in. Guess which one? The one with scores in the 99th percentile. We're in a mid level SES area btw.
If you are not an URM scores in the mid/upper 90th percentile will certainly get you in. White/Asian, no chance.

This makes me really curious to know what percent of say 2nd graders in FCPS is in this range (90th-99th). It must be the case that 99th is not sufficiently discriminating if a child from a low SES school can score that way and not get in.

Isn't it the case that they need to be in the top 20% at their school? Maybe in a given lower SES school you still may have 30% who score this way on the COGAT. Lower SES doesn't mean most kids are doing poorly.

AAP takes around 20% of the FCPS kids. In the old pool system, with a cutoff of 132 on either the NNAT or CogAT, around 12% of kids were "in pool". It probably is the case that a kid scoring in the 90th percentile nationally would be on the bubble of being in the top 20% across FCPS.

That being said, the AAP equity report showed that GBRS is much more important than test scores. Many kids are admitted into AAP with lower test scores, high GBRS, strong commentary in the GBRS form, and solid work samples. Many kids with 99th percentile test scores are rejected from AAP if the GBRS score is low, the GBRS commentary is weak, or the work samples seem sub-par for AAP. Thanks to so many kids prepping, the committee seems to assume that if the kid has a 99th percentile score, but the teacher isn't seeing giftedness, the kid is probably prepped.

Also, the AART at my kids' school has flat out acknowledged the randomness of the process. Every year, some kids from my kids' school are admitted with nothing whatsoever in the AAP packet suggesting AAP placement. Also, every year, some kids that the AART thought were obvious admits with very strong packets get rejected. If the school is supporting your kid for AAP placement, but the kid gets rejected, the AART suggested reapplying and appealing each year. Eventually, any kid who has the school's support will get in.