Are Va.'s big colleges driving small ones out of business?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only expert quoted is Lonwood's president who seems upset that his school can't attract students. Probably because it's a mediocre school in the middle of nowhere. The article totally leaves out schools like VCU, ODU, and CNU all of which are doing fine. Even Mary Washington is doing ok.

When was the last time you visited Longwood?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It did say ODU was growing. That was the only mention. And I don't think I even saw CNU.

I think Radford and Longwood both suffer from years of people calling them crappy schools. That said, the surrounding areas leave a lot to be desired. Too bad - I actually quite liked Radford when my daughter did a program there in summer 2021.

They don't really talk much about Mary Washington, but they also showed that their numbers have declined quite a bit.

Radford is the only one of those 3 my child is considering, but she preferred ODU. I honestly can't blame her. Norfolk/Virginia Beach area is more exciting and there is a football team.

I think Mary Washington's main challenge has been the growth of CNU. For students who want a smaller/mid-size school but don't get into W&M, UMW and CNU are the next step down and CNU seems to have wider appeal with shiny new buildings, Greek life, big sports. So it can cross over also with students who liked UVA. UMW used to get more of those just-missed-W&M students.

Add to that LACs with similar range student bodies to UMW generally offer great merit, making it harder for them to compete for those who prefer that environment. And then UMW may seem too close to home for NoVA kids. So, a bunch of headwinds to fight.

FWIW, I have one of those W&M/LAC-preferring kids. She hated CNU and half-heartedly accepted UMW as an in-state safety. Waitlisted at W&M. UMW gave her $10k, making it our cheapest option but the privates still fit our budget and she much preferred them. So, she's going to an OOS LAC with a big merit award.

[Anonymous]

I kind of like the idea of bringing in career training programs. That would likely work at someplace like Radford. They could easily offer those types of programs in their Carilion programs - looks like they offer one associates program already, but that could be expanded. Although, they do have a Bridge program with their local community college?

I have been investigating a couple OOS schools for my daughter that operate under this model - Northern Michigan U and then there are a few like this in Utah (Utah Valley, Utah Tech and I THINK Weber State?) Another school that does this is Dean College in MA. They offer Associates but also have Bachelors and sometimes higher degrees (depending on the school)

I know Longwood and Mary Washington were building new facilities?

[Anonymous]

I think the issue is really about the change in what kids want to major in. It seems that 2/3rds of all HS seniors are planning to major in computer science. The humanities majors are shrinking... people just don't care to major in English or History or Econ or Theatre anymore. Some do, but fewer and fewer. Any universities that want to attract students HAVE to have a reputable computer science program. It's a harder sell at these smaller schools. Yes, they have it, but they need to market the heck out of it to let people know! And they need to build a reputation that people associate with industry employment. Again, it's hard for these smaller schools.

I have one at UMW. It has been a great fit for her. I really want to see schools like UMW make it. But, I do worry about whether the "liberal arts" concept is in the past.

[Anonymous]

Man that Longwood President suggesting that the top VA schools reject more VA students to help increase his school's enrollment. Yeah let's force more VA students to their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th choice schools to help out Longwood. What a great idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The lost me at

"When selective schools such as Virginia Tech take more students, they reach into James Madison University's pool. That forces JMU to reach into the pockets of Radford, Longwood or Mary Washington"

JMU is harder to get into than it's ever been. There are kids going to JMU who would have been at UVA 20 years ago

Not really. It used to be harder in the past--now 72% of students don't submit test scores and they accepted 86% of students last year.

At my DD Bethesda HS, 40 kids applied and JMU only accepted 8. Some of her friends with good stats were rejected and disappointed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is really about the change in what kids want to major in. It seems that 2/3rds of all HS seniors are planning to major in computer science. The humanities majors are shrinking... people just don't care to major in English or History or Econ or Theatre anymore. Some do, but fewer and fewer. Any universities that want to attract students HAVE to have a reputable computer science program. It's a harder sell at these smaller schools. Yes, they have it, but they need to market the heck out of it to let people know! And they need to build a reputation that people associate with industry employment. Again, it's hard for these smaller schools.

I have one at UMW. It has been a great fit for her. I really want to see schools like UMW make it. But, I do worry about whether the "liberal arts" concept is in the past.

Longwood should be fine; they offer great education and nursing programs at a very affordable price point. Maybe the president should work on marketing their school better

[Anonymous]

Problem with vcu is there is no where for them to expand except the occasional small lot for sale and the closure last year of a dorm. That only leaves 3 freshmen dorms and no guaranteed housing after freshmen year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The lost me at

"When selective schools such as Virginia Tech take more students, they reach into James Madison University's pool. That forces JMU to reach into the pockets of Radford, Longwood or Mary Washington"

JMU is harder to get into than it's ever been. There are kids going to JMU who would have been at UVA 20 years ago

JMU is obvious a tier below VT as Radford is a tier below JMU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They don't mention CNU at all that I saw. And what about ODU?

They mention ODU. It's one of the schools that have been growing.

Maybe because it's an Engineering oriented school.

I went to ODU for 1 year and then transferred to VT Engineering in the 90s.

ODU professors were great. Many of them were better than my 2nd year professors at VT.

[Anonymous]

Ummm WM is a small school. And they are growing fast. Now they have spring entry. IMO, they should have waited to raise the class size until they got further along in their renovation queue to admit more kids. First two years are fine, but it’s nearly impossible for get on campus housing the last two years unless you can check a specific, limited box. My kid got junior on campus housing my moving into a modern language house (newer dorm set of suites). But they had 40 applications for 10 beds. And you need to be prepared to communicate in the target language and do meetings, lectures and activities. RAs can stay on campus and frats and sororities up to their max. And not much else.

And the housing market in the Burg is not set up to deal with the 500 extra kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is really about the change in what kids want to major in. It seems that 2/3rds of all HS seniors are planning to major in computer science. The humanities majors are shrinking... people just don't care to major in English or History or Econ or Theatre anymore. Some do, but fewer and fewer. Any universities that want to attract students HAVE to have a reputable computer science program. It's a harder sell at these smaller schools. Yes, they have it, but they need to market the heck out of it to let people know! And they need to build a reputation that people associate with industry employment. Again, it's hard for these smaller schools.

I have one at UMW. It has been a great fit for her. I really want to see schools like UMW make it. But, I do worry about whether the "liberal arts" concept is in the past.

Longwood should be fine; they offer great education and nursing programs at a very affordable price point. Maybe the president should work on marketing their school better

I didn't mention Longwood, so not sure why you are putting out tbe attitude. Fwiw, UMW also has a nursing program. But that wasn't the point of the post.

[Anonymous]

I didn’t quite get this article.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is really about the change in what kids want to major in. It seems that 2/3rds of all HS seniors are planning to major in computer science. The humanities majors are shrinking... people just don't care to major in English or History or Econ or Theatre anymore. Some do, but fewer and fewer. Any universities that want to attract students HAVE to have a reputable computer science program. It's a harder sell at these smaller schools. Yes, they have it, but they need to market the heck out of it to let people know! And they need to build a reputation that people associate with industry employment. Again, it's hard for these smaller schools.

I have one at UMW. It has been a great fit for her. I really want to see schools like UMW make it. But, I do worry about whether the "liberal arts" concept is in the past.

Longwood should be fine; they offer great education and nursing programs at a very affordable price point. Maybe the president should work on marketing their school better

I didn't mention Longwood, so not sure why you are putting out tbe attitude. Fwiw, UMW also has a nursing program. But that wasn't the point of the post.

UMW’s nursing program is completion only (so you can only transfer in)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The lost me at

"When selective schools such as Virginia Tech take more students, they reach into James Madison University's pool. That forces JMU to reach into the pockets of Radford, Longwood or Mary Washington"

JMU is harder to get into than it's ever been. There are kids going to JMU who would have been at UVA 20 years ago

+1
I noticed that too. VT isn't "reaching into JMU's pool". Both VT and JMU have their own pool of thousands, trying to get into them.