Advanced Students in DCPS Upper Elementary

[Anonymous]

My first grader is at a bilingual Title 1 and is in a small group for math that is about 1.5 grade levels ahead, and gets additional Spanish grammar and writing instruction from the school Spanish literacy coach. That may shift in upper elementary, and he still has to sit through the regular lessons, but they definitely work hard to challenge the above grade level cohort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:those of you who are expecting small group differentiation, are you super new to DCPS? We are now in 4th grade at Title 1. All of kids teachers tell me kid is top of the glass, scores 5s on PARCC, reading and math way above grade level. They all agree there are new ways they can challenge her. but NONE of it ever happens. They are drowning trying to get the other kids who may be 1 or 2 grade levels BELOW, up to speed and ready for PARCC testing coming up again in May. My kid does need more help with organization, writing and accountability. The teachers do not care if homework is turned in (we do, beleive me we expect accountability) but there are no real repurcussions for not getting assignments done. the excuse is that too many kids have "barriers to participation" at home. That may be true but that means no one is preparing these kids for actual real workloads, homework and responsibility and consequences.

This.

OP is asking about upper elementary, not lower with K or 1st. from many of the responses.

It’s a totally different game in upper especially if you are at a title 1 or poorly performing school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS follow the school-wide enrichment model, so something like tracking into a different class is not officially allowed. This is something I would expect a student’s teacher to be able to accommodate through small group instruction. DCPS is shifting to a big push for a focus on math, so math instruction will likely look different in the coming years.

It may be that different schools accommodate differently, but at my kid's school there are definitely some kids who get special pullouts for advanced study and even some who attend classes with a different grade level. My kid is in K at LT. The large majority of instruction is group-based for both math and ELA and there is a huge gulf between what the top group is doing and the bottom group. But, on top of that, I know that sometimes kids in the top reading group get pulled by the school's reading coach for instruction outside the classroom. Then there is also one student who goes to 2nd grade for math.

Thanks for naming the school. I don’t understand why no one else will; most posts contain almost no personally identifiable info. Anyway, good to know LT seems to offer at least some true differentiation. How did the K kid who goes to second get picked for that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS follow the school-wide enrichment model, so something like tracking into a different class is not officially allowed. This is something I would expect a student’s teacher to be able to accommodate through small group instruction. DCPS is shifting to a big push for a focus on math, so math instruction will likely look different in the coming years.

It may be that different schools accommodate differently, but at my kid's school there are definitely some kids who get special pullouts for advanced study and even some who attend classes with a different grade level. My kid is in K at LT. The large majority of instruction is group-based for both math and ELA and there is a huge gulf between what the top group is doing and the bottom group. But, on top of that, I know that sometimes kids in the top reading group get pulled by the school's reading coach for instruction outside the classroom. Then there is also one student who goes to 2nd grade for math.

Thanks for naming the school. I don’t understand why no one else will; most posts contain almost no personally identifiable info. Anyway, good to know LT seems to offer at least some true differentiation. How did the K kid who goes to second get picked for that?

FYI, above is not true differentiation. Above is pull out or sending a kid to a different class.

True differentiation happens within the classroom by the teacher. This is almost impossible to do effectively when you have class sizes of more than 14 or 15 kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS follow the school-wide enrichment model, so something like tracking into a different class is not officially allowed. This is something I would expect a student’s teacher to be able to accommodate through small group instruction. DCPS is shifting to a big push for a focus on math, so math instruction will likely look different in the coming years.

It may be that different schools accommodate differently, but at my kid's school there are definitely some kids who get special pullouts for advanced study and even some who attend classes with a different grade level. My kid is in K at LT. The large majority of instruction is group-based for both math and ELA and there is a huge gulf between what the top group is doing and the bottom group. But, on top of that, I know that sometimes kids in the top reading group get pulled by the school's reading coach for instruction outside the classroom. Then there is also one student who goes to 2nd grade for math.

Thanks for naming the school. I don’t understand why no one else will; most posts contain almost no personally identifiable info. Anyway, good to know LT seems to offer at least some true differentiation. How did the K kid who goes to second get picked for that?

FYI, above is not true differentiation. Above is pull out or sending a kid to a different class.

True differentiation happens within the classroom by the teacher. This is almost impossible to do effectively when you have class sizes of more than 14 or 15 kids.

It happens in classes of 30 all the time in Montessori schools. It’s very possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm so sorry to hear all of this! Our Title I had been pulling my DD out for advanced reading, either 1:1 or small group, since PK4. Never heard anything about it not being allowed. They seem happy to do it, and I've always thought the teachers were good and cared about her engagement. They clearly cannot just teach to the middle-- the ability range is vast so that would never work. I wish she had more of a peer group but that's not something they can control in the short term.

The ability range will be an ocean by the time your kid gets to the upper grades. She won’t be pulled out for anything and will be stuck on a computer if she is lucky. If not, she will be asked to be the helper and help the rest of the class who are below grade level.

My kid is in the upper grades and is pulled out daily. She has 1:1 or works with a small mixed age group of upper grades students. I said the pullouts began in PK4, not that she is in PK4.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:those of you who are expecting small group differentiation, are you super new to DCPS? We are now in 4th grade at Title 1. All of kids teachers tell me kid is top of the glass, scores 5s on PARCC, reading and math way above grade level. They all agree there are new ways they can challenge her. but NONE of it ever happens. They are drowning trying to get the other kids who may be 1 or 2 grade levels BELOW, up to speed and ready for PARCC testing coming up again in May. My kid does need more help with organization, writing and accountability. The teachers do not care if homework is turned in (we do, beleive me we expect accountability) but there are no real repurcussions for not getting assignments done. the excuse is that too many kids have "barriers to participation" at home. That may be true but that means no one is preparing these kids for actual real workloads, homework and responsibility and consequences.

This.

OP is asking about upper elementary, not lower with K or 1st. from many of the responses.

It’s a totally different game in upper especially if you are at a title 1 or poorly performing school.

We have plenty of friends in MCPS and FCPS as well. The truth is that elementary school sucks at challenging kids above grade level everywhere, until you can start CES or AAP programs in upper grades. If you’re gen ed, it’s the same in DC or the suburbs. It’s obviously easy to be DC focused when you’re in DC, but the grass really isn’t that much greener. If your kid is more than a full grade level ahead, you’re either relaxing or supplementing, regardless of where you are. That’s personally why we chose immersion and do piano outside of school, because the immersion provides an ongoing challenge independent of your cohort and specific teacher in the absence of actual gifted programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS follow the school-wide enrichment model, so something like tracking into a different class is not officially allowed. This is something I would expect a student’s teacher to be able to accommodate through small group instruction. DCPS is shifting to a big push for a focus on math, so math instruction will likely look different in the coming years.

It may be that different schools accommodate differently, but at my kid's school there are definitely some kids who get special pullouts for advanced study and even some who attend classes with a different grade level. My kid is in K at LT. The large majority of instruction is group-based for both math and ELA and there is a huge gulf between what the top group is doing and the bottom group. But, on top of that, I know that sometimes kids in the top reading group get pulled by the school's reading coach for instruction outside the classroom. Then there is also one student who goes to 2nd grade for math.

Thanks for naming the school. I don’t understand why no one else will; most posts contain almost no personally identifiable info. Anyway, good to know LT seems to offer at least some true differentiation. How did the K kid who goes to second get picked for that?

The way it works at our school is they do the beginning of the year diagnostic testing (iReady or MAP or whatever). Then they try to form groups within the class. Ideally you'd have a group within the classroom, even if it's a very small group, and avoid having to do a room transition-- I've never understood why people are so thrilled that their child wastes time walking down the hall. If you don't, they look for kids at a similar level in the next year up, and the year after that. Of course, this all has to work around class schedules too-- so you're looking for a class that has well-matched kids and also has the subject at the same time of day. My DD was able to do this in PK4 only because she was a non-napper, she literally took zero naps ever since starting PK3, so she was able to go to the K room for math during nap block.

A lot of little kids have high reading fluency, but their comprehension and ability to respond in writing isn't that great, so they would have a hard time in a higher group, and it could be hard socially and they won't be able to meet the attention span and behavioral expectations. So again, the ideal thing is to be with kids of similar age AND similar ability so that the placement will be socially and developmentally appropriate as well as academically beneficial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS follow the school-wide enrichment model, so something like tracking into a different class is not officially allowed. This is something I would expect a student’s teacher to be able to accommodate through small group instruction. DCPS is shifting to a big push for a focus on math, so math instruction will likely look different in the coming years.

It may be that different schools accommodate differently, but at my kid's school there are definitely some kids who get special pullouts for advanced study and even some who attend classes with a different grade level. My kid is in K at LT. The large majority of instruction is group-based for both math and ELA and there is a huge gulf between what the top group is doing and the bottom group. But, on top of that, I know that sometimes kids in the top reading group get pulled by the school's reading coach for instruction outside the classroom. Then there is also one student who goes to 2nd grade for math.

Thanks for naming the school. I don’t understand why no one else will; most posts contain almost no personally identifiable info. Anyway, good to know LT seems to offer at least some true differentiation. How did the K kid who goes to second get picked for that?

The way it works at our school is they do the beginning of the year diagnostic testing (iReady or MAP or whatever). Then they try to form groups within the class. Ideally you'd have a group within the classroom, even if it's a very small group, and avoid having to do a room transition-- I've never understood why people are so thrilled that their child wastes time walking down the hall. If you don't, they look for kids at a similar level in the next year up, and the year after that. Of course, this all has to work around class schedules too-- so you're looking for a class that has well-matched kids and also has the subject at the same time of day. My DD was able to do this in PK4 only because she was a non-napper, she literally took zero naps ever since starting PK3, so she was able to go to the K room for math during nap block.

A lot of little kids have high reading fluency, but their comprehension and ability to respond in writing isn't that great, so they would have a hard time in a higher group, and it could be hard socially and they won't be able to meet the attention span and behavioral expectations. So again, the ideal thing is to be with kids of similar age AND similar ability so that the placement will be socially and developmentally appropriate as well as academically beneficial.

This is exactly right. A lot of smart kindergarten to second graders are way ahead on reading, but almost none are equally ahead on writing. Unless your first grader can respond to questions in correctly written multi-sentence paragraphs, then they should be doing grade level work. It’s public school, some content will be easier than other, but most kids still have learning to do. I would focus on having the teacher work on that with your child, not assume that their classroom isn’t the correct place to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS follow the school-wide enrichment model, so something like tracking into a different class is not officially allowed. This is something I would expect a student’s teacher to be able to accommodate through small group instruction. DCPS is shifting to a big push for a focus on math, so math instruction will likely look different in the coming years.

It may be that different schools accommodate differently, but at my kid's school there are definitely some kids who get special pullouts for advanced study and even some who attend classes with a different grade level. My kid is in K at LT. The large majority of instruction is group-based for both math and ELA and there is a huge gulf between what the top group is doing and the bottom group. But, on top of that, I know that sometimes kids in the top reading group get pulled by the school's reading coach for instruction outside the classroom. Then there is also one student who goes to 2nd grade for math.

Thanks for naming the school. I don’t understand why no one else will; most posts contain almost no personally identifiable info. Anyway, good to know LT seems to offer at least some true differentiation. How did the K kid who goes to second get picked for that?

The way it works at our school is they do the beginning of the year diagnostic testing (iReady or MAP or whatever). Then they try to form groups within the class. Ideally you'd have a group within the classroom, even if it's a very small group, and avoid having to do a room transition-- I've never understood why people are so thrilled that their child wastes time walking down the hall. If you don't, they look for kids at a similar level in the next year up, and the year after that. Of course, this all has to work around class schedules too-- so you're looking for a class that has well-matched kids and also has the subject at the same time of day. My DD was able to do this in PK4 only because she was a non-napper, she literally took zero naps ever since starting PK3, so she was able to go to the K room for math during nap block.

A lot of little kids have high reading fluency, but their comprehension and ability to respond in writing isn't that great, so they would have a hard time in a higher group, and it could be hard socially and they won't be able to meet the attention span and behavioral expectations. So again, the ideal thing is to be with kids of similar age AND similar ability so that the placement will be socially and developmentally appropriate as well as academically beneficial.

This is exactly right. A lot of smart kindergarten to second graders are way ahead on reading, but almost none are equally ahead on writing. Unless your first grader can respond to questions in correctly written multi-sentence paragraphs, then they should be doing grade level work. It’s public school, some content will be easier than other, but most kids still have learning to do. I would focus on having the teacher work on that with your child, not assume that their classroom isn’t the correct place to be.

The teacher cannot work on that with my kid because she is focused on teaching kids who cannot read to sound out words. There are more of them, and it is a much higher priority. I would love for the teacher to be doing that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS follow the school-wide enrichment model, so something like tracking into a different class is not officially allowed. This is something I would expect a student’s teacher to be able to accommodate through small group instruction. DCPS is shifting to a big push for a focus on math, so math instruction will likely look different in the coming years.

It may be that different schools accommodate differently, but at my kid's school there are definitely some kids who get special pullouts for advanced study and even some who attend classes with a different grade level. My kid is in K at LT. The large majority of instruction is group-based for both math and ELA and there is a huge gulf between what the top group is doing and the bottom group. But, on top of that, I know that sometimes kids in the top reading group get pulled by the school's reading coach for instruction outside the classroom. Then there is also one student who goes to 2nd grade for math.

Thanks for naming the school. I don’t understand why no one else will; most posts contain almost no personally identifiable info. Anyway, good to know LT seems to offer at least some true differentiation. How did the K kid who goes to second get picked for that?

The way it works at our school is they do the beginning of the year diagnostic testing (iReady or MAP or whatever). Then they try to form groups within the class. Ideally you'd have a group within the classroom, even if it's a very small group, and avoid having to do a room transition-- I've never understood why people are so thrilled that their child wastes time walking down the hall. If you don't, they look for kids at a similar level in the next year up, and the year after that. Of course, this all has to work around class schedules too-- so you're looking for a class that has well-matched kids and also has the subject at the same time of day. My DD was able to do this in PK4 only because she was a non-napper, she literally took zero naps ever since starting PK3, so she was able to go to the K room for math during nap block.

A lot of little kids have high reading fluency, but their comprehension and ability to respond in writing isn't that great, so they would have a hard time in a higher group, and it could be hard socially and they won't be able to meet the attention span and behavioral expectations. So again, the ideal thing is to be with kids of similar age AND similar ability so that the placement will be socially and developmentally appropriate as well as academically beneficial.

This is exactly right. A lot of smart kindergarten to second graders are way ahead on reading, but almost none are equally ahead on writing. Unless your first grader can respond to questions in correctly written multi-sentence paragraphs, then they should be doing grade level work. It’s public school, some content will be easier than other, but most kids still have learning to do. I would focus on having the teacher work on that with your child, not assume that their classroom isn’t the correct place to be.

The teacher cannot work on that with my kid because she is focused on teaching kids who cannot read to sound out words. There are more of them, and it is a much higher priority. I would love for the teacher to be doing that.

Our Title 1 has either two teachers or a teacher and full time aide per grade, plus they bring in the subject matter learning specialists for above and below grade small groups. Never have had more than 18 kids per class. Perhaps you need to find a school with a different administration that focuses on different priorities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS follow the school-wide enrichment model, so something like tracking into a different class is not officially allowed. This is something I would expect a student’s teacher to be able to accommodate through small group instruction. DCPS is shifting to a big push for a focus on math, so math instruction will likely look different in the coming years.

It may be that different schools accommodate differently, but at my kid's school there are definitely some kids who get special pullouts for advanced study and even some who attend classes with a different grade level. My kid is in K at LT. The large majority of instruction is group-based for both math and ELA and there is a huge gulf between what the top group is doing and the bottom group. But, on top of that, I know that sometimes kids in the top reading group get pulled by the school's reading coach for instruction outside the classroom. Then there is also one student who goes to 2nd grade for math.

Thanks for naming the school. I don’t understand why no one else will; most posts contain almost no personally identifiable info. Anyway, good to know LT seems to offer at least some true differentiation. How did the K kid who goes to second get picked for that?

FYI, above is not true differentiation. Above is pull out or sending a kid to a different class.

True differentiation happens within the classroom by the teacher. This is almost impossible to do effectively when you have class sizes of more than 14 or 15 kids.

It happens in classes of 30 all the time in Montessori schools. It’s very possible.

What happens in a Montessori classroom of 30 3 year olds has little to do with 4th graders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm so sorry to hear all of this! Our Title I had been pulling my DD out for advanced reading, either 1:1 or small group, since PK4. Never heard anything about it not being allowed. They seem happy to do it, and I've always thought the teachers were good and cared about her engagement. They clearly cannot just teach to the middle-- the ability range is vast so that would never work. I wish she had more of a peer group but that's not something they can control in the short term.

The ability range will be an ocean by the time your kid gets to the upper grades. She won’t be pulled out for anything and will be stuck on a computer if she is lucky. If not, she will be asked to be the helper and help the rest of the class who are below grade level.

My kid is in the upper grades and is pulled out daily. She has 1:1 or works with a small mixed age group of upper grades students. I said the pullouts began in PK4, not that she is in PK4.

Who pulls her out? Given that schools can barely keep up with IEP
mandated 1:1 pullouts, I have a hard time believing they do non-mandated pullouts on a regular basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS follow the school-wide enrichment model, so something like tracking into a different class is not officially allowed. This is something I would expect a student’s teacher to be able to accommodate through small group instruction. DCPS is shifting to a big push for a focus on math, so math instruction will likely look different in the coming years.

It may be that different schools accommodate differently, but at my kid's school there are definitely some kids who get special pullouts for advanced study and even some who attend classes with a different grade level. My kid is in K at LT. The large majority of instruction is group-based for both math and ELA and there is a huge gulf between what the top group is doing and the bottom group. But, on top of that, I know that sometimes kids in the top reading group get pulled by the school's reading coach for instruction outside the classroom. Then there is also one student who goes to 2nd grade for math.

Thanks for naming the school. I don’t understand why no one else will; most posts contain almost no personally identifiable info. Anyway, good to know LT seems to offer at least some true differentiation. How did the K kid who goes to second get picked for that?

FYI, above is not true differentiation. Above is pull out or sending a kid to a different class.

True differentiation happens within the classroom by the teacher. This is almost impossible to do effectively when you have class sizes of more than 14 or 15 kids.

The poster said differentiated small groups + pullouts of too group + even allowing taking a class up a level (or 2 in this example). That seems pretty good standard differentiation to me. I assume if they’re sending a K kid to 2nd grade, and at a school where most kids are on grade level, we’re not talking about a kid who a teacher could reasonably do in class differentiation for beyond a worksheet or computer. I applaud a school who realizes a real class experience is better in those circumstances if they can make it work.

[Anonymous]

I think the level of shock and disbelief in this thread is showing is that it’s impossible to generalize, and one family’s experience at one school could be vastly different than another school. It also highlights the importance of really prioritizing and digging hard into the priorities, systems and structures, and leadership at the individual school level. It’s REALLY hard to know what questions to ask when you’re at the pre-K level, but the good news is DC has a lottery and often seats open up in elementary grades.