To Increase Equity, School Districts Eliminate Honors Classes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is happening in FCPS. Check out the pilot for elementary school math called E3. Our school is piloting it and they've effectively eliminated the advanced math option (where they teach the curriculum a year ahead and kids take the SOL a year ahead). Instead they do "extensions" for any kid that needs it for a particular concept.

which grades at which school?

Dont know which schools but here is more info on it: https://www.fcps.edu/node/44416

Looks like to plan is to expand it from 10 to 20 schools.

Seems extremely focused on equity. It doesnt explicitly state canceling accelerated paths in 5th and 6th, but it does seem intent on 8th grade algebra being the goal for all, which may be to the detriment for 7th grade algebra enrollment.

[Anonymous]

It's 3rd and 4th grade at our elementary school. We don't know yet if it's following them to 5th grade, but I assume so. I've gotten very little information about the curriculum, and since we get so little work sent home, I can't really tell what they are learning or if my 4th grader who was supposed to be in Level II advanced math (learning the 4th and 5th grade curriculum) is getting high quality extensions or not.

The person who mentioned tutors is correct. We are UMC and if we find our student falling behind what we think he's capable of or not learning what his peers at other elementary schools in our pyramid are learning, we will pay for tutoring. Not fair to families who can't afford that or aren't really understanding what is going on.

We should probably have this E3 conversation in the FCPS forum!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's 3rd and 4th grade at our elementary school. We don't know yet if it's following them to 5th grade, but I assume so. I've gotten very little information about the curriculum, and since we get so little work sent home, I can't really tell what they are learning or if my 4th grader who was supposed to be in Level II advanced math (learning the 4th and 5th grade curriculum) is getting high quality extensions or not.

The person who mentioned tutors is correct. We are UMC and if we find our student falling behind what we think he's capable of or not learning what his peers at other elementary schools in our pyramid are learning, we will pay for tutoring. Not fair to families who can't afford that or aren't really understanding what is going on.

We should probably have this E3 conversation in the FCPS forum!

Fairfax County School administrators have decided to “close the achievement gap” from the top down.

They have tried and failed to bring the kids at the lowest levels up to passing,’or advanced.

So they will instead, get rid of the advanced classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is happening in FCPS. Check out the pilot for elementary school math called E3. Our school is piloting it and they've effectively eliminated the advanced math option (where they teach the curriculum a year ahead and kids take the SOL a year ahead). Instead they do "extensions" for any kid that needs it for a particular concept.

which grades at which school?

Dont know which schools but here is more info on it: https://www.fcps.edu/node/44416

Looks like to plan is to expand it from 10 to 20 schools.

Seems extremely focused on equity. It doesnt explicitly state canceling accelerated paths in 5th and 6th, but it does seem intent on 8th grade algebra being the goal for all, which may be to the detriment for 7th grade algebra enrollment.

So they haven’t eliminated advanced math then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's 3rd and 4th grade at our elementary school. We don't know yet if it's following them to 5th grade, but I assume so. I've gotten very little information about the curriculum, and since we get so little work sent home, I can't really tell what they are learning or if my 4th grader who was supposed to be in Level II advanced math (learning the 4th and 5th grade curriculum) is getting high quality extensions or not.

The person who mentioned tutors is correct. We are UMC and if we find our student falling behind what we think he's capable of or not learning what his peers at other elementary schools in our pyramid are learning, we will pay for tutoring. Not fair to families who can't afford that or aren't really understanding what is going on.

We should probably have this E3 conversation in the FCPS forum!

So they haven’t actually eliminated advanced math then?

Has that actually happened anywhere?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's 3rd and 4th grade at our elementary school. We don't know yet if it's following them to 5th grade, but I assume so. I've gotten very little information about the curriculum, and since we get so little work sent home, I can't really tell what they are learning or if my 4th grader who was supposed to be in Level II advanced math (learning the 4th and 5th grade curriculum) is getting high quality extensions or not.

The person who mentioned tutors is correct. We are UMC and if we find our student falling behind what we think he's capable of or not learning what his peers at other elementary schools in our pyramid are learning, we will pay for tutoring. Not fair to families who can't afford that or aren't really understanding what is going on.

We should probably have this E3 conversation in the FCPS forum!

So they haven’t actually eliminated advanced math then?

Has that actually happened anywhere?

My understanding is that FCPS will still offer the traditional advanced math progression for Level IV students. This starts in 3rd and 4th grade with the identified kids working on the curriculum a year ahead, but still taking the grade level SOL. In 5th grade, it splits more deeply and advanced math kids learn the 6th grade math curriculum and take the 6th grade SOL as 5th graders. Then in 6th, they do the 7th grade math curriculum and SOL, working a full grade level ahead. At our elementary school, a good percentage of kids not identified as Level IV (we are not a center school) are designated as Level II for math only and join in on the advanced curriculum, working a year ahead. We've been told that there will no longer be a Level II designation. It will all be done in class and kids who need "extensions" will receive them. Now that they've started piloting E3 at our school, progress reports no longer indicate that kids are Level II and receiving advanced content and instead say they "received extensions in math" in the notes section.
So it hasn't been eliminated, but seems like this program (which is currently only a pilot) would change how advanced math is taught and I'm skeptical about the same content really being given through extensions. Seems like a lot to ask of our classroom teachers to manage math lessons at so many different levels instead of just grouping kids.
I still have more questions than answers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's 3rd and 4th grade at our elementary school. We don't know yet if it's following them to 5th grade, but I assume so. I've gotten very little information about the curriculum, and since we get so little work sent home, I can't really tell what they are learning or if my 4th grader who was supposed to be in Level II advanced math (learning the 4th and 5th grade curriculum) is getting high quality extensions or not.

The person who mentioned tutors is correct. We are UMC and if we find our student falling behind what we think he's capable of or not learning what his peers at other elementary schools in our pyramid are learning, we will pay for tutoring. Not fair to families who can't afford that or aren't really understanding what is going on.

We should probably have this E3 conversation in the FCPS forum!

So they haven’t actually eliminated advanced math then?

Has that actually happened anywhere?

Like a PP said, the program just started for 3rd and 4th graders. Current LLIV or Level III 5th and 6th graders in Advanced Math appear to be grandfathered in to the old policy and are still getting math instruction in a separate classroom with other students who qualified for Advanced Math. These 5th graders will take the 6th grade Math SOL and 6th graders will take the 7th grade Math SOL in the Spring of 2023. The question remains whether the current 3rd and 4th graders at the schools doing E3 Math will follow this same path and take the 6th grade Math SOL at the end of 5th grade. During at least one E3 presentation this question was asked directly and the principal did not give a "yes" or "no" answer. A "yes" would have put an end to any debate and mollified most parents who weren't sold on the program. A "no" would have made parents furious for obvious reasons and jumped ship to the Level IV Center. A non-answer is definitely suspect and usually what people do when they know the real answer is going to be unpopular.

[Anonymous]

This is great for all the rich, White and Asian parents (which I'm sure include the overpaid administrators). They get to continue what they've always done: giving their children outside enrichment and acceleration, but with the official ceiling lowered, no one will realize how far ahead they are. Before, a poor kid could have a chance of surpassing the wealthy via these honors classes - thankfully, that horrific possibility is now closed for good.
And if those poor kids gets As throughout elementary and middle school only to be shocked when they're unprepared for honors highschool classes and the SAT? That's even better! They should know their place, after all.

[Anonymous]

Nothing like bringing down expectations for all in the name of equity!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS effectively does this by putting everyone in honors classes, which then become on-level classes. Total joke.

While the majority of kids at our W school take honors because they are capable of honors, my child does not. And he is not alone in his on-level classes. I don’t know why people like to perpetuate these myths.

Because it’s true. The MCPS thread on this links to lots of course catalogs that only list the honors course. Our schools, B-CC, doesn’t offer any on-level English or social studies courses. This is the norm
In MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's 3rd and 4th grade at our elementary school. We don't know yet if it's following them to 5th grade, but I assume so. I've gotten very little information about the curriculum, and since we get so little work sent home, I can't really tell what they are learning or if my 4th grader who was supposed to be in Level II advanced math (learning the 4th and 5th grade curriculum) is getting high quality extensions or not.

The person who mentioned tutors is correct. We are UMC and if we find our student falling behind what we think he's capable of or not learning what his peers at other elementary schools in our pyramid are learning, we will pay for tutoring. Not fair to families who can't afford that or aren't really understanding what is going on.

We should probably have this E3 conversation in the FCPS forum!

So they haven’t actually eliminated advanced math then?

Has that actually happened anywhere?

Like a PP said, the program just started for 3rd and 4th graders. Current LLIV or Level III 5th and 6th graders in Advanced Math appear to be grandfathered in to the old policy and are still getting math instruction in a separate classroom with other students who qualified for Advanced Math. These 5th graders will take the 6th grade Math SOL and 6th graders will take the 7th grade Math SOL in the Spring of 2023. The question remains whether the current 3rd and 4th graders at the schools doing E3 Math will follow this same path and take the 6th grade Math SOL at the end of 5th grade. During at least one E3 presentation this question was asked directly and the principal did not give a "yes" or "no" answer. A "yes" would have put an end to any debate and mollified most parents who weren't sold on the program. A "no" would have made parents furious for obvious reasons and jumped ship to the Level IV Center. A non-answer is definitely suspect and usually what people do when they know the real answer is going to be unpopular.

This is right. I have a 4th grader at an E3 pilot school and they refuse to tell us what will happen next year in math. So I have no idea if the advanced math option (6th grade content and SOL) will be available to my advanced math student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's 3rd and 4th grade at our elementary school. We don't know yet if it's following them to 5th grade, but I assume so. I've gotten very little information about the curriculum, and since we get so little work sent home, I can't really tell what they are learning or if my 4th grader who was supposed to be in Level II advanced math (learning the 4th and 5th grade curriculum) is getting high quality extensions or not.

The person who mentioned tutors is correct. We are UMC and if we find our student falling behind what we think he's capable of or not learning what his peers at other elementary schools in our pyramid are learning, we will pay for tutoring. Not fair to families who can't afford that or aren't really understanding what is going on.

We should probably have this E3 conversation in the FCPS forum!

So they haven’t actually eliminated advanced math then?

Has that actually happened anywhere?

Like a PP said, the program just started for 3rd and 4th graders. Current LLIV or Level III 5th and 6th graders in Advanced Math appear to be grandfathered in to the old policy and are still getting math instruction in a separate classroom with other students who qualified for Advanced Math. These 5th graders will take the 6th grade Math SOL and 6th graders will take the 7th grade Math SOL in the Spring of 2023. The question remains whether the current 3rd and 4th graders at the schools doing E3 Math will follow this same path and take the 6th grade Math SOL at the end of 5th grade. During at least one E3 presentation this question was asked directly and the principal did not give a "yes" or "no" answer. A "yes" would have put an end to any debate and mollified most parents who weren't sold on the program. A "no" would have made parents furious for obvious reasons and jumped ship to the Level IV Center. A non-answer is definitely suspect and usually what people do when they know the real answer is going to be unpopular.

This is right. I have a 4th grader at an E3 pilot school and they refuse to tell us what will happen next year in math. So I have no idea if the advanced math option (6th grade content and SOL) will be available to my advanced math student.

Ridiculous. It's almost March and the school won't tell you whether they're offering the same math program as the AAP center for students in advanced math next year. I'm sure they're trying to wait it out so people won't try to leave for the AAP Center. I hope parents are making a fuss about this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's 3rd and 4th grade at our elementary school. We don't know yet if it's following them to 5th grade, but I assume so. I've gotten very little information about the curriculum, and since we get so little work sent home, I can't really tell what they are learning or if my 4th grader who was supposed to be in Level II advanced math (learning the 4th and 5th grade curriculum) is getting high quality extensions or not.

The person who mentioned tutors is correct. We are UMC and if we find our student falling behind what we think he's capable of or not learning what his peers at other elementary schools in our pyramid are learning, we will pay for tutoring. Not fair to families who can't afford that or aren't really understanding what is going on.

We should probably have this E3 conversation in the FCPS forum!

So they haven’t actually eliminated advanced math then?

Has that actually happened anywhere?

Like a PP said, the program just started for 3rd and 4th graders. Current LLIV or Level III 5th and 6th graders in Advanced Math appear to be grandfathered in to the old policy and are still getting math instruction in a separate classroom with other students who qualified for Advanced Math. These 5th graders will take the 6th grade Math SOL and 6th graders will take the 7th grade Math SOL in the Spring of 2023. The question remains whether the current 3rd and 4th graders at the schools doing E3 Math will follow this same path and take the 6th grade Math SOL at the end of 5th grade. During at least one E3 presentation this question was asked directly and the principal did not give a "yes" or "no" answer. A "yes" would have put an end to any debate and mollified most parents who weren't sold on the program. A "no" would have made parents furious for obvious reasons and jumped ship to the Level IV Center. A non-answer is definitely suspect and usually what people do when they know the real answer is going to be unpopular.

This is right. I have a 4th grader at an E3 pilot school and they refuse to tell us what will happen next year in math. So I have no idea if the advanced math option (6th grade content and SOL) will be available to my advanced math student.

Ridiculous. It's almost March and the school won't tell you whether they're offering the same math program as the AAP center for students in advanced math next year. I'm sure they're trying to wait it out so people won't try to leave for the AAP Center. I hope parents are making a fuss about this.

Its pretty obvious that many of the equity initiatives are built to drive higher enrollment of 8th grade algebra. If you decelerate students destined for 7th grade algebra... boom! equity.

Fortunately, the cat is out of the bag; 7th grade algebra is not unobtanium for kids with a modicum of discipline and intelligence. And you'll just see a new gap dictated entirely by external enrichment, which if we are being honest is easily obtained by parent with 30 minutes of free time and a couple subscriptions to online resources. This will hurt the very people equity efforts are trying to support.

Probably better off providing better opportunities for all, regardless of SES and race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's 3rd and 4th grade at our elementary school. We don't know yet if it's following them to 5th grade, but I assume so. I've gotten very little information about the curriculum, and since we get so little work sent home, I can't really tell what they are learning or if my 4th grader who was supposed to be in Level II advanced math (learning the 4th and 5th grade curriculum) is getting high quality extensions or not.

The person who mentioned tutors is correct. We are UMC and if we find our student falling behind what we think he's capable of or not learning what his peers at other elementary schools in our pyramid are learning, we will pay for tutoring. Not fair to families who can't afford that or aren't really understanding what is going on.

We should probably have this E3 conversation in the FCPS forum!

So they haven’t actually eliminated advanced math then?

Has that actually happened anywhere?

Like a PP said, the program just started for 3rd and 4th graders. Current LLIV or Level III 5th and 6th graders in Advanced Math appear to be grandfathered in to the old policy and are still getting math instruction in a separate classroom with other students who qualified for Advanced Math. These 5th graders will take the 6th grade Math SOL and 6th graders will take the 7th grade Math SOL in the Spring of 2023. The question remains whether the current 3rd and 4th graders at the schools doing E3 Math will follow this same path and take the 6th grade Math SOL at the end of 5th grade. During at least one E3 presentation this question was asked directly and the principal did not give a "yes" or "no" answer. A "yes" would have put an end to any debate and mollified most parents who weren't sold on the program. A "no" would have made parents furious for obvious reasons and jumped ship to the Level IV Center. A non-answer is definitely suspect and usually what people do when they know the real answer is going to be unpopular.

This is right. I have a 4th grader at an E3 pilot school and they refuse to tell us what will happen next year in math. So I have no idea if the advanced math option (6th grade content and SOL) will be available to my advanced math student.

Ridiculous. It's almost March and the school won't tell you whether they're offering the same math program as the AAP center for students in advanced math next year. I'm sure they're trying to wait it out so people won't try to leave for the AAP Center. I hope parents are making a fuss about this.

Its pretty obvious that many of the equity initiatives are built to drive higher enrollment of 8th grade algebra. If you decelerate students destined for 7th grade algebra... boom! equity.

Fortunately, the cat is out of the bag; 7th grade algebra is not unobtanium for kids with a modicum of discipline and intelligence. And you'll just see a new gap dictated entirely by external enrichment, which if we are being honest is easily obtained by parent with 30 minutes of free time and a couple subscriptions to online resources. This will hurt the very people equity efforts are trying to support.

Probably better off providing better opportunities for all, regardless of SES and race.

My kid is not super advanced in math (in 5th grade) but I have a hard time seeing how they are going to slow-walk algebra until 8th unless they have very low expectations for the content of 6th & 7th grade math. The kids who are better at math than him are going to be absolutely bored and under challenged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's 3rd and 4th grade at our elementary school. We don't know yet if it's following them to 5th grade, but I assume so. I've gotten very little information about the curriculum, and since we get so little work sent home, I can't really tell what they are learning or if my 4th grader who was supposed to be in Level II advanced math (learning the 4th and 5th grade curriculum) is getting high quality extensions or not.

The person who mentioned tutors is correct. We are UMC and if we find our student falling behind what we think he's capable of or not learning what his peers at other elementary schools in our pyramid are learning, we will pay for tutoring. Not fair to families who can't afford that or aren't really understanding what is going on.

We should probably have this E3 conversation in the FCPS forum!

So they haven’t actually eliminated advanced math then?

Has that actually happened anywhere?

Like a PP said, the program just started for 3rd and 4th graders. Current LLIV or Level III 5th and 6th graders in Advanced Math appear to be grandfathered in to the old policy and are still getting math instruction in a separate classroom with other students who qualified for Advanced Math. These 5th graders will take the 6th grade Math SOL and 6th graders will take the 7th grade Math SOL in the Spring of 2023. The question remains whether the current 3rd and 4th graders at the schools doing E3 Math will follow this same path and take the 6th grade Math SOL at the end of 5th grade. During at least one E3 presentation this question was asked directly and the principal did not give a "yes" or "no" answer. A "yes" would have put an end to any debate and mollified most parents who weren't sold on the program. A "no" would have made parents furious for obvious reasons and jumped ship to the Level IV Center. A non-answer is definitely suspect and usually what people do when they know the real answer is going to be unpopular.

This is right. I have a 4th grader at an E3 pilot school and they refuse to tell us what will happen next year in math. So I have no idea if the advanced math option (6th grade content and SOL) will be available to my advanced math student.

Ridiculous. It's almost March and the school won't tell you whether they're offering the same math program as the AAP center for students in advanced math next year. I'm sure they're trying to wait it out so people won't try to leave for the AAP Center. I hope parents are making a fuss about this.

Its pretty obvious that many of the equity initiatives are built to drive higher enrollment of 8th grade algebra. If you decelerate students destined for 7th grade algebra... boom! equity.

Fortunately, the cat is out of the bag; 7th grade algebra is not unobtanium for kids with a modicum of discipline and intelligence. And you'll just see a new gap dictated entirely by external enrichment, which if we are being honest is easily obtained by parent with 30 minutes of free time and a couple subscriptions to online resources. This will hurt the very people equity efforts are trying to support.

Probably better off providing better opportunities for all, regardless of SES and race.

My kid is not super advanced in math (in 5th grade) but I have a hard time seeing how they are going to slow-walk algebra until 8th unless they have very low expectations for the content of 6th & 7th grade math. The kids who are better at math than him are going to be absolutely bored and under challenged.

The curriculum is the curriculum. Kids dependent on the school will go as fast or as slow as they are taught. This is where extensions would keep bored kids engaged on topics other than what’s next. Worksheet babysitting…

This all supposes that they will stop teaching to the next level SOL in 5th and 6th for e3 piloted schools, which apparently isn’t clear.