Biglaw - twelfth-year associate??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would someone like that make? $400K base + bonus?

550 base and 450-500 bonus.

How is this sustainable? Are they really generating $3M+ a year in fees? They would have to bill 2,000 at at rate of $1,500 per hour. I find that very hard to believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would someone like that make? $400K base + bonus?

550 base and 450-500 bonus.

How is this sustainable? Are they really generating $3M+ a year in fees? They would have to bill 2,000 at at rate of $1,500 per hour. I find that very hard to believe.

I was recently quoted about $600K all in for a securities law counsel position at Goodwin FWIW. I forget the exact breakdown but I think $450-$500 was base salary.

[Anonymous]

I retired early from DC Biglaw. Honestly, I don’t understand the posters on this and other threads who talk about their income going down when they’re first promoted to partner or counsel from associate. My firm (for all of its faults) never would have allowed that to happen. It made sure that new partners were compensated at least a token bit more than they were before being promoted, even taking into account capital contributions, being fully responsible for health insurance/social security, etc. I certainly made more right away, and I never heard anyone else suggest that they weren’t.

On the “12th year associate” thing - yes, it happens, and will likely happen more frequently moving forward. So long as an associate remains profitable, there’s a need, and they’re happy enough, most firms will keep them on. Here’s the rub, though: most Biglaw lawyers don’t stay happy in the arrangement, and it’s not surprising why. The typical Biglaw lawyer is a naturally competitive type, and as the years go by a typical passed over associate gets less and less content as round after round of younger lawyers make partner and surpass them in income and prestige. You have to be awfully confident in and comfortable with yourself to watch lawyers who you took out to lunch as summer associates when you were a fourth or fifth year become partners (or even counsel) ahead of you. And most Biglaw lawyers just aren’t wired that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I retired early from DC Biglaw. Honestly, I don’t understand the posters on this and other threads who talk about their income going down when they’re first promoted to partner or counsel from associate. My firm (for all of its faults) never would have allowed that to happen. It made sure that new partners were compensated at least a token bit more than they were before being promoted, even taking into account capital contributions, being fully responsible for health insurance/social security, etc. I certainly made more right away, and I never heard anyone else suggest that they weren’t.

On the “12th year associate” thing - yes, it happens, and will likely happen more frequently moving forward. So long as an associate remains profitable, there’s a need, and they’re happy enough, most firms will keep them on. Here’s the rub, though: most Biglaw lawyers don’t stay happy in the arrangement, and it’s not surprising why. The typical Biglaw lawyer is a naturally competitive type, and as the years go by a typical passed over associate gets less and less content as round after round of younger lawyers make partner and surpass them in income and prestige. You have to be awfully confident in and comfortable with yourself to watch lawyers who you took out to lunch as summer associates when you were a fourth or fifth year become partners (or even counsel) ahead of you. And most Biglaw lawyers just aren’t wired that way.

Because people on here are idiots and they think about their net rather than accounting for mandatory retirement contributions as savings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I retired early from DC Biglaw. Honestly, I don’t understand the posters on this and other threads who talk about their income going down when they’re first promoted to partner or counsel from associate. My firm (for all of its faults) never would have allowed that to happen. It made sure that new partners were compensated at least a token bit more than they were before being promoted, even taking into account capital contributions, being fully responsible for health insurance/social security, etc. I certainly made more right away, and I never heard anyone else suggest that they weren’t.

On the “12th year associate” thing - yes, it happens, and will likely happen more frequently moving forward. So long as an associate remains profitable, there’s a need, and they’re happy enough, most firms will keep them on. Here’s the rub, though: most Biglaw lawyers don’t stay happy in the arrangement, and it’s not surprising why. The typical Biglaw lawyer is a naturally competitive type, and as the years go by a typical passed over associate gets less and less content as round after round of younger lawyers make partner and surpass them in income and prestige. You have to be awfully confident in and comfortable with yourself to watch lawyers who you took out to lunch as summer associates when you were a fourth or fifth year become partners (or even counsel) ahead of you. And most Biglaw lawyers just aren’t wired that way.

Because people on here are idiots and they think about their net rather than accounting for mandatory retirement contributions as savings.

You know what? You very well could be right. I do recall several of the new partners who I came up with complaining about having to pay so much into their retirement accounts. They were paying for private schools etc and said it hurt their cash flow. I thought it was great though. I mean, that’s how I retired early!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would someone like that make? $400K base + bonus?

550 base and 450-500 bonus.

I find this hard to believe. Probably more like $415,000 base and bonus potential of no more than $150,000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would someone like that make? $400K base + bonus?

550 base and 450-500 bonus.

I find this hard to believe. Probably more like $415,000 base and bonus potential of no more than $150,000.

If I was a 8+ year associate I would definitely try to cap myself at around 600k total as that is about 1.8 mil revenue, pretty easy to generate at a top firm.

To put that in context the GS pay scale tops out at 180k, SESs cap out at 220k working 50+ hours, DC corporate executives at the VP level will rarely make over 400k, surgeons make 500-700k, and financial regulators top out at 275k. If you are in a niche big law practice, 600k is great. Take the rest of the time to build client base and lateral to junior partner or senior in-house role. DC biglaw employees are insanely rich by all local metrics.

[Anonymous]

This isn't uncommon. Although more and more firms are elevating larger numbers of associates to partner and counsel, some firms are still stingy about title bumps. It's kind of shitty since 12th-year associates can be perceived as mediocre/undesirable, but that's how it goes. I suppose there are worse things than making a base of $415k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would someone like that make? $400K base + bonus?

550 base and 450-500 bonus.

I find this hard to believe. Probably more like $415,000 base and bonus potential of no more than $150,000.

Agreed, at least at the 2 firms I’ve worked at. No way the bonus is that high. Usually the bonus is just the top of the Cravath scale whether you’re 8 years or 13 years. The base will go up by tiny amounts each year - $5 or $10k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would someone like that make? $400K base + bonus?

550 base and 450-500 bonus.

I find this hard to believe. Probably more like $415,000 base and bonus potential of no more than $150,000.

Agreed, at least at the 2 firms I’ve worked at. No way the bonus is that high. Usually the bonus is just the top of the Cravath scale whether you’re 8 years or 13 years. The base will go up by tiny amounts each year - $5 or $10k.

At the current rate if you are a 12th year associate, you’ve made over 500k per year for over 5 years. If you have a working spouse that is likely a 600-700k household income for 5 years preceded by 400-600k hhi 4-5 years prior to that. Take the money, vest, and take a nice cushy low stress job. You’ll still come out ahead of other DC jobs and have a significant nest egg.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would someone like that make? $400K base + bonus?

550 base and 450-500 bonus.

I find this hard to believe. Probably more like $415,000 base and bonus potential of no more than $150,000.

If I was a 8+ year associate I would definitely try to cap myself at around 600k total as that is about 1.8 mil revenue, pretty easy to generate at a top firm.

To put that in context the GS pay scale tops out at 180k, SESs cap out at 220k working 50+ hours, DC corporate executives at the VP level will rarely make over 400k, surgeons make 500-700k, and financial regulators top out at 275k. If you are in a niche big law practice, 600k is great. Take the rest of the time to build client base and lateral to junior partner or senior in-house role. DC biglaw employees are insanely rich by all local metrics.

If they had the ability to build a client base, they would be a partner not a 12th year associate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would someone like that make? $400K base + bonus?

550 base and 450-500 bonus.

I find this hard to believe. Probably more like $415,000 base and bonus potential of no more than $150,000.

If I was a 8+ year associate I would definitely try to cap myself at around 600k total as that is about 1.8 mil revenue, pretty easy to generate at a top firm.

To put that in context the GS pay scale tops out at 180k, SESs cap out at 220k working 50+ hours, DC corporate executives at the VP level will rarely make over 400k, surgeons make 500-700k, and financial regulators top out at 275k. If you are in a niche big law practice, 600k is great. Take the rest of the time to build client base and lateral to junior partner or senior in-house role. DC biglaw employees are insanely rich by all local metrics.

$1.8 revenue for an associate is about as good as it gets, in my experience. There are always write-offs, write-downs, whatever your firm’s jargon is, and the result is that only 1850-1950 of those 2000 hours ultimately get paid to the client. 2,000 hours billed per year, at an hourly rate of $900, if paid in full (not happening), is $1.8M. Again, paying an associate $600k is borderline unsustainable in my opinion. But I’m just a non-equity partner so what do I know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would someone like that make? $400K base + bonus?

550 base and 450-500 bonus.

I find this hard to believe. Probably more like $415,000 base and bonus potential of no more than $150,000.

If I was a 8+ year associate I would definitely try to cap myself at around 600k total as that is about 1.8 mil revenue, pretty easy to generate at a top firm.

To put that in context the GS pay scale tops out at 180k, SESs cap out at 220k working 50+ hours, DC corporate executives at the VP level will rarely make over 400k, surgeons make 500-700k, and financial regulators top out at 275k. If you are in a niche big law practice, 600k is great. Take the rest of the time to build client base and lateral to junior partner or senior in-house role. DC biglaw employees are insanely rich by all local metrics.

$1.8 revenue for an associate is about as good as it gets, in my experience. There are always write-offs, write-downs, whatever your firm’s jargon is, and the result is that only 1850-1950 of those 2000 hours ultimately get paid to the client. 2,000 hours billed per year, at an hourly rate of $900, if paid in full (not happening), is $1.8M. Again, paying an associate $600k is borderline unsustainable in my opinion. But I’m just a non-equity partner so what do I know.

6th year biglaw here already generating $1.8M revenue (1800 hr @ $1000/hr).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would someone like that make? $400K base + bonus?

550 base and 450-500 bonus.

I find this hard to believe. Probably more like $415,000 base and bonus potential of no more than $150,000.

If I was a 8+ year associate I would definitely try to cap myself at around 600k total as that is about 1.8 mil revenue, pretty easy to generate at a top firm.

To put that in context the GS pay scale tops out at 180k, SESs cap out at 220k working 50+ hours, DC corporate executives at the VP level will rarely make over 400k, surgeons make 500-700k, and financial regulators top out at 275k. If you are in a niche big law practice, 600k is great. Take the rest of the time to build client base and lateral to junior partner or senior in-house role. DC biglaw employees are insanely rich by all local metrics.

$1.8 revenue for an associate is about as good as it gets, in my experience. There are always write-offs, write-downs, whatever your firm’s jargon is, and the result is that only 1850-1950 of those 2000 hours ultimately get paid to the client. 2,000 hours billed per year, at an hourly rate of $900, if paid in full (not happening), is $1.8M. Again, paying an associate $600k is borderline unsustainable in my opinion. But I’m just a non-equity partner so what do I know.

6th year biglaw here already generating $1.8M revenue (1800 hr @ $1000/hr).

Are you willing to share your practice area or specialty ? Thank you in advance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would someone like that make? $400K base + bonus?

550 base and 450-500 bonus.

I find this hard to believe. Probably more like $415,000 base and bonus potential of no more than $150,000.

If I was a 8+ year associate I would definitely try to cap myself at around 600k total as that is about 1.8 mil revenue, pretty easy to generate at a top firm.

To put that in context the GS pay scale tops out at 180k, SESs cap out at 220k working 50+ hours, DC corporate executives at the VP level will rarely make over 400k, surgeons make 500-700k, and financial regulators top out at 275k. If you are in a niche big law practice, 600k is great. Take the rest of the time to build client base and lateral to junior partner or senior in-house role. DC biglaw employees are insanely rich by all local metrics.

$1.8 revenue for an associate is about as good as it gets, in my experience. There are always write-offs, write-downs, whatever your firm’s jargon is, and the result is that only 1850-1950 of those 2000 hours ultimately get paid to the client. 2,000 hours billed per year, at an hourly rate of $900, if paid in full (not happening), is $1.8M. Again, paying an associate $600k is borderline unsustainable in my opinion. But I’m just a non-equity partner so what do I know.

6th year biglaw here already generating $1.8M revenue (1800 hr @ $1000/hr).

Are you sure that you're actually billing at $1k an hour? I'm client with a $20m litigation/regulatory budget and we don't pay that for a 6th year, even at tippy top firms. We have discounted rates.