4th grade math - speed drills??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would reach out to the teacher to discuss, particularly with your statement that it's making your kid hate math and dread school. I'm sorry that's happening, and I hope the teacher would be willing to work with you and her to make it better.

My daughter (currently in 9th grade, doing great in honors algebra 2) had a similar 4th grade math teacher who had speed drills, and found that hard and frustrating, as she understood the concepts but wasn't super fast. Grateful that her math teachers later on didn't emphasize that as much; her 8th grade teacher specifically emphasized that math wasn't about speed and that helped to restore her confidence in her math abilities.

Ditto here with a daughter doing very well with a 95 in her Alg. II class and never had that kind of drilling in elementary school. There is no reason why kids should be put under that pressure -- especially when it is causing anxiety. I would speak to the teacher and if it is not addressed, talk to principal. If all fails, pull her out of that school if you can afford private.

[Anonymous]

The drills are fine, and healthy, for practice.

What's not acceptable is giving low grades for doing them slower than 2sec per problem. (Especially considering that students should be concentrating on writing with good handwriting!)

There is no point in giving out grades *before* the student has had time to master the material, and 40 facts in one minute is an unreasonable standard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you looked into tutoring for your daughter? MCPS provides some options for free.

Then on the private side, there's Mathnasium, Kumon, etc.

My daughter does not NEED tutoring. She knows her math facts and understands the material just fine, if anything she is advanced in math - she's just got slow processing. Rote memorization is not required for math fact fluency, and speed drills are not an effective way to teach - math anxiety actually *worsens* working memory, processing, and problem solving.

Rote memorization is not required for math fluency, but it does help with a long list of tasks that have to be done both in math and in normal life, and that's what they are trying to get the kids to with these drills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the effect of her not doing all the problems in the alloted time? Speed drills are common, and useful for building fluency. There's probably no expectation that every kid gets them all done.

She certainly *thinks* she's expected to be able to do them all, based on the messages she's getting from her teacher.

What is the effect? They are graded and listed in ParentVue, bringing her overall grade down (most of the rest of her math grades are As, but her overall grade is a C, primarily because of these drills). *I* don't care about grades that much, but *she* does - it's hard not to feel bad when your worksheets are sent home with a giant red "47%" marked on them.

She's developed worsening anxiety about math in general and these tests in particular. It's killing her self confidence and any enthusiasm she may once have had for learning.

Maybe reducing the focus on her grades would be helpful. Learning involves a lot of failing. Not just "C" failing--outright failing.

[Anonymous]

Math teacher here-elementary math grades should NOT be taken from Sprints...since you said this isn't a sprint from Eureka, it REALLY shouldn't be graded then. The grading guidance from MCPS is pretty clear. Grades should only be coming from Mid/End of module and then topic quizzes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Math teacher here-elementary math grades should NOT be taken from Sprints...since you said this isn't a sprint from Eureka, it REALLY shouldn't be graded then. The grading guidance from MCPS is pretty clear. Grades should only be coming from Mid/End of module and then topic quizzes.

Thank you! Is that posted anywhere publicly where parents can see? Is it something I should complain about? In ParentVue they are labeled as “Multiplication Facts”, notably different from the exit tickets, topic quizzes, or mid/end of module assessments. I can’t tell how they are weighted in comparison, since all I see is a letter grade vs the points I see for my MS kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Math teacher here-elementary math grades should NOT be taken from Sprints...since you said this isn't a sprint from Eureka, it REALLY shouldn't be graded then. The grading guidance from MCPS is pretty clear. Grades should only be coming from Mid/End of module and then topic quizzes.

Thank you! Is that posted anywhere publicly where parents can see? Is it something I should complain about? In ParentVue they are labeled as “Multiplication Facts”, notably different from the exit tickets, topic quizzes, or mid/end of module assessments. I can’t tell how they are weighted in comparison, since all I see is a letter grade vs the points I see for my MS kid.

Exit tickets should absolutely not be graded either. I don't think the document is supposed to be shared publicly. I would contact your school's staff development teacher-they are the ones in charge of math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Math teacher here-elementary math grades should NOT be taken from Sprints...since you said this isn't a sprint from Eureka, it REALLY shouldn't be graded then. The grading guidance from MCPS is pretty clear. Grades should only be coming from Mid/End of module and then topic quizzes.

Thank you! Is that posted anywhere publicly where parents can see? Is it something I should complain about? In ParentVue they are labeled as “Multiplication Facts”, notably different from the exit tickets, topic quizzes, or mid/end of module assessments. I can’t tell how they are weighted in comparison, since all I see is a letter grade vs the points I see for my MS kid.

Exit tickets should absolutely not be graded either. I don't think the document is supposed to be shared publicly. I would contact your school's staff development teacher-they are the ones in charge of math.

I have seen exit tickets graded at several schools.

[Anonymous]

Make your own and do one or two nightly. Complaining isn’t going to help or teach her better math fluency. Ask the teacher for an example of a test and make your own exactly as the teacher does hers. You should also be practicing orally too but the written is where she’s clearly having problems. I’d make a practice 30 minutes math nightly and play different games and tests to practice this skill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you looked into tutoring for your daughter? MCPS provides some options for free.

Then on the private side, there's Mathnasium, Kumon, etc.

My daughter does not NEED tutoring. She knows her math facts and understands the material just fine, if anything she is advanced in math - she's just got slow processing. Rote memorization is not required for math fact fluency, and speed drills are not an effective way to teach - math anxiety actually *worsens* working memory, processing, and problem solving.

I agree with this, but the reality is that many components of math moving forward require the speed and accuracy that come from rote memorization - in order to finish math unit tests, to finish state exams, to finish SAT, ACT, IB and AP exams, and to be able to finish homework in a reasonable amount if time. If your kid does have slow processing they should have an accommodation for extra time on math tests and later in upper elementary, MS or HS, they may even need a “calculator accommodation”.

I’m a tutor, so I see this pretty often in kids in ES, MS and HS. Better to get the accommodation now so that DC doesn’t end up hating math and thinking she is bad at it.

[Anonymous]

40 problems in a minute is ridiculous, but fact fluency is important. Is your child practicing? Is she fluent? Do you know what the teacher’s actual goal is? Speaking to the teacher should be your first step. But also focus on your daughter not stressing about grades- she’s in 4th grade. Challenge her to improve on each test and reward her for improvement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Math teacher here-elementary math grades should NOT be taken from Sprints...since you said this isn't a sprint from Eureka, it REALLY shouldn't be graded then. The grading guidance from MCPS is pretty clear. Grades should only be coming from Mid/End of module and then topic quizzes.

Thank you! Is that posted anywhere publicly where parents can see? Is it something I should complain about? In ParentVue they are labeled as “Multiplication Facts”, notably different from the exit tickets, topic quizzes, or mid/end of module assessments. I can’t tell how they are weighted in comparison, since all I see is a letter grade vs the points I see for my MS kid.

Exit tickets should absolutely not be graded either. I don't think the document is supposed to be shared publicly. I would contact your school's staff development teacher-they are the ones in charge of math.

Sprints and Exit Tickets should not be graded in MCPS. This has been mentioned every year to staff since the Eureka curriculum was rolled out.
- Staff Development Teacher in MCPS

[Anonymous]

This is pretty standard stuff…. Mad Minutes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Math teacher here-elementary math grades should NOT be taken from Sprints...since you said this isn't a sprint from Eureka, it REALLY shouldn't be graded then. The grading guidance from MCPS is pretty clear. Grades should only be coming from Mid/End of module and then topic quizzes.

Thank you! Is that posted anywhere publicly where parents can see? Is it something I should complain about? In ParentVue they are labeled as “Multiplication Facts”, notably different from the exit tickets, topic quizzes, or mid/end of module assessments. I can’t tell how they are weighted in comparison, since all I see is a letter grade vs the points I see for my MS kid.

Exit tickets should absolutely not be graded either. I don't think the document is supposed to be shared publicly. I would contact your school's staff development teacher-they are the ones in charge of math.

I have seen exit tickets graded at several schools.

Grades as in in the gradebook or just handed back with “grades?” I’m a dp but I teach and math exit ticks are NOT supposed to be taken for gradebook grades. Neither are sprints.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you looked into tutoring for your daughter? MCPS provides some options for free.

Then on the private side, there's Mathnasium, Kumon, etc.

My daughter does not NEED tutoring. She knows her math facts and understands the material just fine, if anything she is advanced in math - she's just got slow processing. Rote memorization is not required for math fact fluency, and speed drills are not an effective way to teach - math anxiety actually *worsens* working memory, processing, and problem solving.

Being able to access math facts quickly from memory is important. While some educators advocate for fluency through conceptual understanding, this is an inefficient type of fluency; ie, if a student doesn't know what 6x6 is, they should think what 6x5 is and add 6. While kids can get the right answer this way, it is slow and requires using working memory which means there is less limited working memory available for other tasks; when facts are pulled from long-term memory, working memory is not taxed. This is the basis for cognitive load theory. When kids hit algebra and above, having to calculate math facts when factoring would be painful. That's why fluency through automaticity/memorization is important. Echoing what other posters have said, speed is also important when kids hit timed tests later unless they have accommodation.