Lowering Voting Age to 16, Regardless of Immigration Status - Rockville

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They don't trust young adults enough to officially let them drink until they are 21 but want to give them the power to choose who drives the entire nation 5 years earlier? Either voting rights are meaningless or we need to bring down the legal drinking age. Which is it?

Undocumented people shouldn't get to vote. Your civil rights should come after you do your civil duty.

What civil duty have you done that they haven’t other than being born on one side of a line drawn in the dirt?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Horrible idea, for more reasons that I can spell out here.

Starting with that you hate young people?

Not wanting to let 16 year old undocumented immigrants vote does not equal ‘hating young people’.

They live in the community and are affected as much - if not more - by local public policy decisions. Many work and pay taxes. If you have an argument that can be separated from prejudice, lay it on us.

Why would you say the opposition is based in ‘prejudice’?

It makes no difference to me where a person is from, if they are not in the country legally, they should not be allowed to vote in our elections.

People who are citizens of another country can vote in elections in their own country. Not in the US. Just like I would not expect to vote in an election in Greece or Spain or Saudi Arabia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they are looking to follow Takoma Park. I’m not sure it makes a lot of sense.

Why not?

The human brain isn't fully developed at that age. Even though they already know everything at that age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the biggest incentives for me to become a US citizen was so that I could vote. I think it is a mistake to allow non-citizens to vote even in local elections. We all know that local elections are the ones that matter the most and they can either wait to become citizens at 18, like I did, or unfortunately not be able to vote.

You have not presented any argument for allowing non-citizens or young people to vote in local elections other than jealousy that they won’t have to jump throw the same hoops as you do. It would be like the suffragettes arguing that all women who wish to vote going forward have to launch their own movements if they want to vote.

It's not like that at all and I'm certainly not jealous.

IMO, many, if not most, 16 year olds are not mature enough to vote on issues that will affect and have ramifications for cities and counties. "Though the brain may be done growing in size, it does not finish developing and maturing until the mid- to late 20s. The front part of the brain, called the prefrontal cortex, is one of the last brain regions to mature. This area is responsible for skills like planning, prioritizing, and controlling impulses. Because these skills are still developing, teens are more likely to engage in risky behaviors without considering the potential results of their decisions." https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-teen-brain-7-things-to-know . You can't even get a drivers license until 16 and 6 months.

[Anonymous]

these are the same 16 year old kids who are not old enough to make rational decisions about things but let's let them be swayed by the liberal council that only wants to let crime run wild and our schools go down further if that is even possible.

[Anonymous]

I think this will pass easily in Rockville. I haven’t seen much discussion about this on local listserves. Likely it is something that voters support.

[Anonymous]

Why 16? I think there’s a very compelling argument for allowing anyone age 10 or older to vote. 16 seems so arbitrary. Most 10 year olds are cognizant enough to vote.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the biggest incentives for me to become a US citizen was so that I could vote. I think it is a mistake to allow non-citizens to vote even in local elections. We all know that local elections are the ones that matter the most and they can either wait to become citizens at 18, like I did, or unfortunately not be able to vote.

You have not presented any argument for allowing non-citizens or young people to vote in local elections other than jealousy that they won’t have to jump throw the same hoops as you do. It would be like the suffragettes arguing that all women who wish to vote going forward have to launch their own movements if they want to vote.

It's not like that at all and I'm certainly not jealous.

IMO, many, if not most, 16 year olds are not mature enough to vote on issues that will affect and have ramifications for cities and counties. "Though the brain may be done growing in size, it does not finish developing and maturing until the mid- to late 20s. The front part of the brain, called the prefrontal cortex, is one of the last brain regions to mature. This area is responsible for skills like planning, prioritizing, and controlling impulses. Because these skills are still developing, teens are more likely to engage in risky behaviors without considering the potential results of their decisions." https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-teen-brain-7-things-to-know . You can't even get a drivers license until 16 and 6 months.

That the driving age is 16 is a good justification for lowering the voting age to 16 or even lower. A lack of impulse control among drivers results in death. A lack of impulse control among voters results in the election of orange-tinged clowns, which boomers have no problem electing without the help of younger folk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the biggest incentives for me to become a US citizen was so that I could vote. I think it is a mistake to allow non-citizens to vote even in local elections. We all know that local elections are the ones that matter the most and they can either wait to become citizens at 18, like I did, or unfortunately not be able to vote.

You have not presented any argument for allowing non-citizens or young people to vote in local elections other than jealousy that they won’t have to jump throw the same hoops as you do. It would be like the suffragettes arguing that all women who wish to vote going forward have to launch their own movements if they want to vote.

It's not like that at all and I'm certainly not jealous.

IMO, many, if not most, 16 year olds are not mature enough to vote on issues that will affect and have ramifications for cities and counties. "Though the brain may be done growing in size, it does not finish developing and maturing until the mid- to late 20s. The front part of the brain, called the prefrontal cortex, is one of the last brain regions to mature. This area is responsible for skills like planning, prioritizing, and controlling impulses. Because these skills are still developing, teens are more likely to engage in risky behaviors without considering the potential results of their decisions." https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-teen-brain-7-things-to-know . You can't even get a drivers license until 16 and 6 months.

Do we currently restrict voting to those who have demonstrated intellectual capability? Nope. All manner of adults with all manner of neurological and psychological issues have every right to vote. Elderly people are allowed to vote, notwithstanding their predisposition to dementia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Horrible idea, for more reasons that I can spell out here.

Starting with that you hate young people?

Not wanting to let 16 year old undocumented immigrants vote does not equal ‘hating young people’.

They live in the community and are affected as much - if not more - by local public policy decisions. Many work and pay taxes. If you have an argument that can be separated from prejudice, lay it on us.

Why would you say the opposition is based in ‘prejudice’?

It makes no difference to me where a person is from, if they are not in the country legally, they should not be allowed to vote in our elections.

People who are citizens of another country can vote in elections in their own country. Not in the US. Just like I would not expect to vote in an election in Greece or Spain or Saudi Arabia.

Prejudice against non-citizens is still prejudice, even without an ethnic dimension.

No one is proposing allowing non-citizens the right to vote in state or federal elections.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the biggest incentives for me to become a US citizen was so that I could vote. I think it is a mistake to allow non-citizens to vote even in local elections. We all know that local elections are the ones that matter the most and they can either wait to become citizens at 18, like I did, or unfortunately not be able to vote.

You have not presented any argument for allowing non-citizens or young people to vote in local elections other than jealousy that they won’t have to jump throw the same hoops as you do. It would be like the suffragettes arguing that all women who wish to vote going forward have to launch their own movements if they want to vote.

It's not like that at all and I'm certainly not jealous.

IMO, many, if not most, 16 year olds are not mature enough to vote on issues that will affect and have ramifications for cities and counties. "Though the brain may be done growing in size, it does not finish developing and maturing until the mid- to late 20s. The front part of the brain, called the prefrontal cortex, is one of the last brain regions to mature. This area is responsible for skills like planning, prioritizing, and controlling impulses. Because these skills are still developing, teens are more likely to engage in risky behaviors without considering the potential results of their decisions." https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-teen-brain-7-things-to-know . You can't even get a drivers license until 16 and 6 months.

16-year-olds arguably have a far greater stake in the future than 86-year-olds, and yet 86-year-olds are allowed to vote about the future, whereas 16-year-olds are not.

[Anonymous]

The biggest reason not to do this is that it creates a big administrative burden on the city to maintain separate voter rolls and elections for city vs. state and federal. I am not sure that the added cost of that infrastructure to ensure that these minor and/or undocumented voters cannot vote in state and federal elections is worth whatever marginal democratic benefit it provides.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Horrible idea, for more reasons that I can spell out here.

Starting with that you hate young people?

Not wanting to let 16 year old undocumented immigrants vote does not equal ‘hating young people’.

They live in the community and are affected as much - if not more - by local public policy decisions. Many work and pay taxes. If you have an argument that can be separated from prejudice, lay it on us.

Many undocumented don't pay income taxes as they are paid under the table.

So,does this mean that only people who work should be able to vote?

They aren't allowed to sit on jury duty; drive passed midnight (except for two situations), but they should be able to vote? Maybe they'll vote to allow 16 yr olds to drive past midnight.

[Anonymous]

I'm actually obsessed with this idea. At 16 years, a lot of people are eligible for jobs that pay enough that they are taxed. They are in environments (school) where they are able to learn about civics and develop opinions on issues. They have teachers who can encourage active civic participation.

This will lead to new priorities and will balance out the fact that the largest population of voters tends to be older, and to candidates who will be younger. It also leads to life-long voters who are more likely to stay engaged in the electoral process and not opt out, or vote for the worst-best choice, or to consider running themselves.

I'm GenX and I'm a very strong member of one political party, but I think the long term benefits of allowing younger voters would have such a substantial impact for improvements and balance in our policies and policy outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Horrible idea, for more reasons that I can spell out here.

Starting with that you hate young people?

Not wanting to let 16 year old undocumented immigrants vote does not equal ‘hating young people’.

They live in the community and are affected as much - if not more - by local public policy decisions. Many work and pay taxes. If you have an argument that can be separated from prejudice, lay it on us.

Many undocumented don't pay income taxes as they are paid under the table.

So,does this mean that only people who work should be able to vote?

They aren't allowed to sit on jury duty; drive passed midnight (except for two situations), but they should be able to vote? Maybe they'll vote to allow 16 yr olds to drive past midnight.

I think that voting is more important for civic participation than driving.

Income taxes are not the only taxes, by the way, and it would be great to have some data to support your "many people without legal status don't pay income taxes because they are paid under the table" claim.