Math and LL IV

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Zero issue with level III kids being pulled in for advanced math with level iv kids, but if the teacher is being asked to instruct both groups in the same room at the same time, each of these groups of kids are only getting half the teachers' time, no?

Everyone is getting the advanced math curriculum. There is no super special advanced math for LIV kids

[Anonymous]

Not true in our school, some level III kids join/are in Gen Ed classrooms for math but are in weekly pullouts with the AAP teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not true in our school, some level III kids join/are in Gen Ed classrooms for math but are in weekly pullouts with the AAP teacher.

then those kids aren't in advanced math.

[Anonymous]

Why do level III kids get weekly pullouts, but there are none for level IV when in classroom, the curriculum is identical for both. Shouldn’t it be reversed where Level IV kids get additional enrichment outside of math (which some level III kids are also in)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do level III kids get weekly pullouts, but there are none for level IV when in classroom, the curriculum is identical for both. Shouldn’t it be reversed where Level IV kids get additional enrichment outside of math (which some level III kids are also in)?

I have no idea how your school deals with LLIV. Our school uses he cluster model. I have not heard of schools with LLIV having the LIII pull outs for kids in the LLIV classroom. Normally those LIII pull outs are for kids in the Gen Ed classroom. If your school still has the LIII pull outs for kids in the LLIV classroom, what is it that the LIV kids are doing? Do they sit there twiddling their thumbs or is the Teacher providing them with something to do? I would guess that the LIV kids are receiving some type of instruction of project while the LIII kids are out of the room.

I would guess that both groups are getting enrichment even if the one group is pulled from the class. But honestly, you kind of sound entitled. Like "My kid is in the higher program so they deserve more" and unable to look at the situation to realize that your child has that pull out time alone with the AAP Teacher where they are doing something without the LIII kids.

We deferred LIV placement for our son and I know that his LIII pull outs means that he misses an hour of class each week. He is expected to be able to make up that material on the fly the next day. The kids that stay in the class continue to receive instruction and the kid who were pulled out are expected to learn the material the other kids got on their own. It is not an issue for DS but some of his friends have stopped attending the LIII pull out because their parents were not happy to cover material at home that the kid missed for the pull out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Zero issue with level III kids being pulled in for advanced math with level iv kids, but if the teacher is being asked to instruct both groups in the same room at the same time, each of these groups of kids are only getting half the teachers' time, no?

No because the kids brought in the room are expected to be able to understand the topics that the Teacher is teaching to the LLIV kids. So kids who are pulled into the LIV classroom for math are expected to be able to do math at that level. Advanced Math is the same math curriculum as the math taught in LIV.

The difference is that kids in Advanced Math who are not in LIV or LLIV are kids who have been identified as being ahead in math but not in LA, Science, or Social Studies. They are not thought to need the full LIV curriculum but only the math component.

Kids in LIII tend to be the kids who are seen to need some additional challenge but who are not in need of LIV services in all subjects, many times this means that they are on grade level in math and not ready for Advanced Math.

We know kids who started in Advanced Math in third and not Level III. They ended up in LIII and Advanced Math in fourth. We only know this because they were in DS's math group but not the LIII pull outs. Later they joined the LIII pull outs and were still in his math group.

The long and the short of it is kids who are pushed into a LIV classroom for math are in Advanced Math and taught the same math as the kids in LIV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A proper version of LLIV has whole class instruction at level 4 math. Yes you will have AAP III kids joining too but they should be learning at the level 4 pace.

Apparently not all schools do it that way. If mine did not though then I would plan to switch to the center.

This. Level III advanced math is the same math as the
Level IV kids get. We are at a center and the advanced math kids (level III) come into a level IV class just for math. Nobody is getting 50% of the teacher’s time—they are all learning the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Our school does cluster model. There is no pull out, there is no switching classrooms. According to DS, everyone gets the same 3rd grade mini lesson, then during group rotations the level iv kids (and anyone who is capable) get the extended concepts. I mean, he’s 8 so something could be lost in translation, but he’s definitely not switching classes for anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do level III kids get weekly pullouts, but there are none for level IV when in classroom, the curriculum is identical for both. Shouldn’t it be reversed where Level IV kids get additional enrichment outside of math (which some level III kids are also in)?

I have no idea how your school deals with LLIV. Our school uses he cluster model. I have not heard of schools with LLIV having the LIII pull outs for kids in the LLIV classroom. Normally those LIII pull outs are for kids in the Gen Ed classroom. If your school still has the LIII pull outs for kids in the LLIV classroom, what is it that the LIV kids are doing? Do they sit there twiddling their thumbs or is the Teacher providing them with something to do? I would guess that the LIV kids are receiving some type of instruction of project while the LIII kids are out of the room.

I would guess that both groups are getting enrichment even if the one group is pulled from the class. But honestly, you kind of sound entitled. Like "My kid is in the higher program so they deserve more" and unable to look at the situation to realize that your child has that pull out time alone with the AAP Teacher where they are doing something without the LIII kids.

We deferred LIV placement for our son and I know that his LIII pull outs means that he misses an hour of class each week. He is expected to be able to make up that material on the fly the next day. The kids that stay in the class continue to receive instruction and the kid who were pulled out are expected to learn the material the other kids got on their own. It is not an issue for DS but some of his friends have stopped attending the LIII pull out because their parents were not happy to cover material at home that the kid missed for the pull out.

The Level III pullouts in my DD's Level IV classroom occur during morning meeting. My child is in Level IV (although we don't talk about it with her), but says her friend who gets the Level III pullouts said she goes because it is "for the smartest kids." It definitely gives some of these kids a complex, and it seems like a waste of resources when they can just be taught in the Level IV classroom. All the Level III kids are in the Level III/IV classroom, none are in gen ed, although there are some advanced math kids that come in from gen ed that are not Level III.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do level III kids get weekly pullouts, but there are none for level IV when in classroom, the curriculum is identical for both. Shouldn’t it be reversed where Level IV kids get additional enrichment outside of math (which some level III kids are also in)?

I would guess that both groups are getting enrichment even if the one group is pulled from the class. But honestly, you kind of sound entitled. Like "My kid is in the higher program so they deserve more" and unable to look at the situation to realize that your child has that pull out time alone with the AAP Teacher where they are doing something without the LIII kids.

The Level IV kids are not "alone with the AAP teacher" while the Level III kids get pullouts in our school--they are with their regular classroom teacher and the 5-7 others who are Level II.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A proper version of LLIV has whole class instruction at level 4 math. Yes you will have AAP III kids joining too but they should be learning at the level 4 pace.

Apparently not all schools do it that way. If mine did not though then I would plan to switch to the center.

This. Level III advanced math is the same math as the
Level IV kids get. We are at a center and the advanced math kids (level III) come into a level IV class just for math. Nobody is getting 50% of the teacher’s time—they are all learning the same thing.

Not at our LLIV. The teacher is giving different tests and assignments to each group (half the class is level IV/advanced math, and half is level III math), so it would seem to logically follow that they aren't all being taught the same lesson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A proper version of LLIV has whole class instruction at level 4 math. Yes you will have AAP III kids joining too but they should be learning at the level 4 pace.

Apparently not all schools do it that way. If mine did not though then I would plan to switch to the center.

This. Level III advanced math is the same math as the
Level IV kids get. We are at a center and the advanced math kids (level III) come into a level IV class just for math. Nobody is getting 50% of the teacher’s time—they are all learning the same thing.

Not at our LLIV. The teacher is giving different tests and assignments to each group (half the class is level IV/advanced math, and half is level III math), so it would seem to logically follow that they aren't all being taught the same lesson.

If so, then the level III kids in the LLIV classroom but not being taught the same math as the LIV kids didn't qualify for advanced math. The schools have certain benchmarks they want met on various tests for a gen ed kid to be placed in advanced math. If too few kids qualify, then they might need to run a split classroom. I doubt that gen ed kids who met the advanced math benchmarks are not being given the same math lessons as the LIV kids. By FCPS standards, LIV math and gen ed advanced math are the exact same thing and are to cover the same material using the same pacing guide.

Also, LIII and Advanced math are two completely different things. My DD was in LIII and advanced math. Many classmates were in advanced math but not LIII. Some other classmates were LIII but not advanced math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Zero issue with level III kids being pulled in for advanced math with level iv kids, but if the teacher is being asked to instruct both groups in the same room at the same time, each of these groups of kids are only getting half the teachers' time, no?

Everyone is getting the advanced math curriculum. There is no super special advanced math for LIV kids

What about the kids in the LV pilot?

[Anonymous]

School dependent. Our School has a dedicated classroom. Level 3 only gets advanced critical thinking.

[Anonymous]

I teach AAP at LL4. My Adv Math class has Level 4 and 3 students. Some of my Level 3 students are better in math than some of my Level 4 students. So as long as they are being instructed at a year above, everything else means nothing.