How big are intro class sizes at UVA vs W&M?

[Anonymous]

I think there’s zero difference in the student experience once the class size gets over 30. Doesn’t really matter whether it’s a 60 person class or a 500 person class at that point.

[Anonymous]

DS's largest freshman class at W&M was around 40.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think there’s zero difference in the student experience once the class size gets over 30. Doesn’t really matter whether it’s a 60 person class or a 500 person class at that point.

Anything over 30? Really? According to my kids, there's a huge difference between a class of, say, 40 kids where an individual student can still ask a question and a mass lecture class. Why do you think US News factors in the percentage of class sizes of less than 20 vs. 20-49 vs. 50 or more at schools in determining its rankings?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there’s zero difference in the student experience once the class size gets over 30. Doesn’t really matter whether it’s a 60 person class or a 500 person class at that point.

Anything over 30? Really? According to my kids, there's a huge difference between a class of, say, 40 kids where an individual student can still ask a question and a mass lecture class. Why do you think US News factors in the percentage of class sizes of less than 20 vs. 20-49 vs. 50 or more at schools in determining its rankings?

Your ability to detect a kid having some fun on this forum isn’t working!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA intro level classes in the College are usually around 300. ECON 101 has 500 per class. The large classes often have a discussion class once a week with around 20 students and a TA.

Oh, my. Much worse than when I attended a state flagship back when. Intro Econ courses were more like 200 then. Of course, Econ is much more popular now, but it does make top LAC costs vs oos UVA costs (which are nearly as high) seem to be the better “bargain.”

There’s zero difference in the student experience once a lecture gets over 100. A 200 person lecture is huge and your professor didn’t know your name. Don’t be silly.

I have attended classes at both sizes. Have you? There is indeed a difference: one is going to a big class, and one is being dragged to a boring, soul-deadening “show.” But I think the larger question is how this shuffles down the pyramid. Because a school with 200-person intro. classes may go down pretty quickly to 40-50 sophomore year, and then even smaller the year after that. What about UVA? Do they go down to “just” 200-person classes the next year? If so, that’s not good.

UVA is relatively small for a state flagship. I thought that was part of its appeal. Shouldn’t it be better on the class size front than the UMichigans of the world? From what I am hearing, it’s not better — and it’s maybe even worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA intro level classes in the College are usually around 300. ECON 101 has 500 per class. The large classes often have a discussion class once a week with around 20 students and a TA.

Oh, my. Much worse than when I attended a state flagship back when. Intro Econ courses were more like 200 then. Of course, Econ is much more popular now, but it does make top LAC costs vs oos UVA costs (which are nearly as high) seem to be the better “bargain.”

There’s zero difference in the student experience once a lecture gets over 100. A 200 person lecture is huge and your professor didn’t know your name. Don’t be silly.

I have attended classes at both sizes. Have you? There is indeed a difference: one is going to a big class, and one is being dragged to a boring, soul-deadening “show.” But I think the larger question is how this shuffles down the pyramid. Because a school with 200-person intro. classes may go down pretty quickly to 40-50 sophomore year, and then even smaller the year after that. What about UVA? Do they go down to “just” 200-person classes the next year? If so, that’s not good.

UVA is relatively small for a state flagship. I thought that was part of its appeal. Shouldn’t it be better on the class size front than the UMichigans of the world? From what I am hearing, it’s not better — and it’s maybe even worse.

According to school-reported statistics, 14.5 percent of classes at UVA have 50 or more students, 33 percent have between 20 and 49 students, and the remainder have less than 20 students. The corresponding percentages for U of Michigan are 17.4 percent and 25 percent for the first two categories.

[Anonymous]

I think once the lecture is 100, it makes no difference how much bigger. And again they have discussion classes of 20 for those classes. BTW intro econ is so popular at UVA because its a required pre-req or McIntire and the Batten School. This fall I think it has 450 which is far and away the biggest class my son has taken at UVA but he is applying to Batten which why he's taking it. His other classes are generally around 100 for popular profs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think once the lecture is 100, it makes no difference how much bigger. And again they have discussion classes of 20 for those classes. BTW intro econ is so popular at UVA because its a required pre-req or McIntire and the Batten School. This fall I think it has 450 which is far and away the biggest class my son has taken at UVA but he is applying to Batten which why he's taking it. His other classes are generally around 100 for popular profs.

Discussion classes can be helpful, but they're taught by TAs who are not infrequently pretty lousy at teaching and/or unmotivated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think once the lecture is 100, it makes no difference how much bigger. And again they have discussion classes of 20 for those classes. BTW intro econ is so popular at UVA because its a required pre-req or McIntire and the Batten School. This fall I think it has 450 which is far and away the biggest class my son has taken at UVA but he is applying to Batten which why he's taking it. His other classes are generally around 100 for popular profs.

Discussion classes can be helpful, but they're taught by TAs who are not infrequently pretty lousy at teaching and/or unmotivated.

My students at UVA have LOVED Their discussion class leaders who have all be post docs.

[Anonymous]

When we went to the admitted students day at UVA 2 professors spoke who had classes with 500 plus people (one was a data science class and another was in the history dept I think). One of these classes had a waitlist of over 800 people. I'm not sure this is something to brag about. Parents are paying thousands of dollars for their kids to take this class and likely never get to interact with the superstar professor in a meaningful way. If the professor is a great lecturer, why not have them do a ted talk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When we went to the admitted students day at UVA 2 professors spoke who had classes with 500 plus people (one was a data science class and another was in the history dept I think). One of these classes had a waitlist of over 800 people. I'm not sure this is something to brag about. Parents are paying thousands of dollars for their kids to take this class and likely never get to interact with the superstar professor in a meaningful way. If the professor is a great lecturer, why not have them do a ted talk.

Well I HIGHLY doubt that is true. UVA limits waitlists to 199 for one thing. If you’re curious, you can go to louslist.org where you can see the class sizes for every class being offered along with the waitlists.

[Anonymous]

And btw the data science classes are all well under 100. You’re listening was not so good at attended students day I suppose!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When we went to the admitted students day at UVA 2 professors spoke who had classes with 500 plus people (one was a data science class and another was in the history dept I think). One of these classes had a waitlist of over 800 people. I'm not sure this is something to brag about. Parents are paying thousands of dollars for their kids to take this class and likely never get to interact with the superstar professor in a meaningful way. If the professor is a great lecturer, why not have them do a ted talk.

This is exactly why liberal arts colleges with small classes even in freshman year, even in subjects like STEM, are good for many kids. Our DC's profs all knew who DC was, and who every other student was, right away. No grad student TAs between the professors and the students. Not knocking UVA specifically, just noting that for some students, smaller is better. Parents concerned about gigantic classes for freshmen should ask their kids to take a look at LACs in addition to the big flagships.

[Anonymous]

The challenge at smaller schools, at least my DC’s SLAC, is that once the small class is full, many students aren’t able to take the desired course or professor. So there can be a down side to smaller classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think once the lecture is 100, it makes no difference how much bigger. And again they have discussion classes of 20 for those classes. BTW intro econ is so popular at UVA because its a required pre-req or McIntire and the Batten School. This fall I think it has 450 which is far and away the biggest class my son has taken at UVA but he is applying to Batten which why he's taking it. His other classes are generally around 100 for popular profs.

Discussion classes can be helpful, but they're taught by TAs who are not infrequently pretty lousy at teaching and/or unmotivated.

My students at UVA have LOVED Their discussion class leaders who have all be post docs.

That's good to hear. I'm sure there are other great TAs at UVA as well. But we know from experience that there are also some crappy ones, like at all schools.