American Legion Bridge expansion is a mistake

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Instead why not build a bridge up north by White's Ferry? Why are we adding more cars to the road, have you not heard of induced demand?

I'll give you my take. I'd like to see a series of small bridges. White's Ferry area being one of them. Maybe they can expand Points of Rock.
The truth is they really should seriously consider expanding the Purple Line West from Bethesda to Vienna.
Expanding highway lanes is doomed to failure. It NEVER worked in Los Angeles. Billions wasted and the automobile traffic is still there.

Another option is to have more jobs in Montgomery County so fewer people have to cross the river to work. If we don’t reverse course on job growth in Montgomery County, we won’t be able to build a bridge that’s big enough.

The majority of people in MoCo work in MoCo and DC.

[Anonymous]

Another Potomac crossing might make sense if the connector were a true limited access highway (think Pa Turnpike west) with no exits between I-270/Washingtonian Blvd and the river crossing. Absent that restriction, the new highway extension and crossing will quickly become a sprawl generator, yielding yet more fast casual chains, big box shopping centers, warehouses, office parks and subdivisions, all of which will leverage comvenient access to the highway. That would be true induced demand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New bridge and bridge expansion. If I were a dictator this would happen. But I’m not so it won’t. Regarding BWI, it is a LCC airport. It has basically no international. It doesn’t compete much with Dulles.

We fly out of BWI as much as possible. We flew out of there to the UK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL. Do you people just have a random collection of buzzwords in your head that you spit out? “Induced Demand”, such as it is a thing, is not relevant for HOT Lanes.

There will be no change to bridge congestion for ordinary traffic. However, for those willing to pay the variable priced toll, you will be able to pass through relatively easily and thus increasing overall capacity.

This is not exclude the fact that another crossing is necessary. If they extend 370 it’s easy to see how it could cross a bit north of Bretton Woods and connect with 28 and provide a direct shot to Dulles.

And that’s why it won’t happen any time soon. Maryland owns all of the river and would need to pay for bridge that would potential undermine BWI.

Please cite one example where lane expansion "solved" a traffic congestion problem.

Hint, you can't because it has never happened.

Well in that case lets just revert to 2-lane roads everywhere and use that reclaimed land for more park space and bike lanes.

Ok!!! Or maybe we can close the extra lanes to all single driver vehicles. Or build light rail lines. So many possibilities!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL. Do you people just have a random collection of buzzwords in your head that you spit out? “Induced Demand”, such as it is a thing, is not relevant for HOT Lanes.

There will be no change to bridge congestion for ordinary traffic. However, for those willing to pay the variable priced toll, you will be able to pass through relatively easily and thus increasing overall capacity.

This is not exclude the fact that another crossing is necessary. If they extend 370 it’s easy to see how it could cross a bit north of Bretton Woods and connect with 28 and provide a direct shot to Dulles.

And that’s why it won’t happen any time soon. Maryland owns all of the river and would need to pay for bridge that would potential undermine BWI.

Please cite one example where lane expansion "solved" a traffic congestion problem.

Hint, you can't because it has never happened.

You are arguing a point with yourself and it’s a dumb one at that.

The lane expansion will not induce congestion because the HOT lanes have a variable price based on maintaining minimum traffic speeds. As a result the toll keeps going up until the market clears and the HOT lane does not lead to more congestion.

The reason why “induced demand” works in some circumstances is that the price is set zero and at that price demand exceeds supply. At a price of zero, eventually added capacity will exceed demand but the unmet demand is huge. This is not possible in the variable priced HOT lane scenario, because the toll price keeps rising until demand subsides.

I do truly recommend trying to educate yourself about the platitudes you have adopted as your political mantra. The world doesn’t work the way you think it does and you have been done a massive disservice to be convinced of something that’s just not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another Potomac crossing might make sense if the connector were a true limited access highway (think Pa Turnpike west) with no exits between I-270/Washingtonian Blvd and the river crossing. Absent that restriction, the new highway extension and crossing will quickly become a sprawl generator, yielding yet more fast casual chains, big box shopping centers, warehouses, office parks and subdivisions, all of which will leverage comvenient access to the highway. That would be true induced demand.

That’s called economic development. It’s like arguing that the Dulles Toll Road should not have had exits between 495 and the airport because Reston Town Center should still be farmland instead of HQ to several multinational corporations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New bridge and bridge expansion. If I were a dictator this would happen. But I’m not so it won’t. Regarding BWI, it is a LCC airport. It has basically no international. It doesn’t compete much with Dulles.

We fly out of BWI as much as possible. We flew out of there to the UK.

There is occasionally a heavily subsidized BA flight to LHR from BWI. Yes. The state of MD was paying something like $10M a year to keep that going.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Instead why not build a bridge up north by White's Ferry? Why are we adding more cars to the road, have you not heard of induced demand?

I'll give you my take. I'd like to see a series of small bridges. White's Ferry area being one of them. Maybe they can expand Points of Rock.
The truth is they really should seriously consider expanding the Purple Line West from Bethesda to Vienna.
Expanding highway lanes is doomed to failure. It NEVER worked in Los Angeles. Billions wasted and the automobile traffic is still there.

Another option is to have more jobs in Montgomery County so fewer people have to cross the river to work. If we don’t reverse course on job growth in Montgomery County, we won’t be able to build a bridge that’s big enough.

The majority of people in MoCo work in MoCo and DC.

You want to break that out by income?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New bridge and bridge expansion. If I were a dictator this would happen. But I’m not so it won’t. Regarding BWI, it is a LCC airport. It has basically no international. It doesn’t compete much with Dulles.

We fly out of BWI as much as possible. We flew out of there to the UK.

There is occasionally a heavily subsidized BA flight to LHR from BWI. Yes. The state of MD was paying something like $10M a year to keep that going.

It was actually about half that amount.

[Anonymous]

Anyone flying out of BWI to an international destination is likely going to the Caribbean, Mexico or Canada.

[Anonymous]

I take IAD if I want a flight to Paris.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Instead why not build a bridge up north by White's Ferry? Why are we adding more cars to the road, have you not heard of induced demand?

I'll give you my take. I'd like to see a series of small bridges. White's Ferry area being one of them. Maybe they can expand Points of Rock.
The truth is they really should seriously consider expanding the Purple Line West from Bethesda to Vienna.
Expanding highway lanes is doomed to failure. It NEVER worked in Los Angeles. Billions wasted and the automobile traffic is still there.

Another option is to have more jobs in Montgomery County so fewer people have to cross the river to work. If we don’t reverse course on job growth in Montgomery County, we won’t be able to build a bridge that’s big enough.

The majority of people in MoCo work in MoCo and DC.

You want to break that out by income?

For fresh college graduates, a SWE makes 130-170k and can fine plenty of job opportunities on NoVa but a government job pays 55-65k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Instead why not build a bridge up north by White's Ferry? Why are we adding more cars to the road, have you not heard of induced demand?

I'll give you my take. I'd like to see a series of small bridges. White's Ferry area being one of them. Maybe they can expand Points of Rock.
The truth is they really should seriously consider expanding the Purple Line West from Bethesda to Vienna.
Expanding highway lanes is doomed to failure. It NEVER worked in Los Angeles. Billions wasted and the automobile traffic is still there.

Another option is to have more jobs in Montgomery County so fewer people have to cross the river to work. If we don’t reverse course on job growth in Montgomery County, we won’t be able to build a bridge that’s big enough.

The majority of people in MoCo work in MoCo and DC.

You want to break that out by income?

For fresh college graduates, a SWE makes 130-170k and can fine plenty of job opportunities on NoVa but a government job pays 55-65k.

Pretty significant qualitative difference in major employers. More MoCo resources dents working in MoCo is actually a bad thing because they are making relatively lower incomes than other jurisdictions. It’s basically a joke to say that working in MoCo is a positive.

Top 10 Employers in MoCo:
- National Institutes of Health
- U.S. Food and Drug Administration
- Naval Support Activity Bethesda
- Marriott International
- Lockheed Martin
- National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration*
- Adventist HealthCare
- Holy Cross Hospital
- Giant Food
- Verizon

Top 10 Employers in Fairfax County:
- INOVA
- Amazon
- Booze Allen Hamilton
- Capital One
- Freddie Mac
- General Dynamics
- SAIC
- Mitre
- Navy FCU
- Peraton

[Anonymous]

It’s Booz. Not Booze. It’s not a liquor store.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another Potomac crossing might make sense if the connector were a true limited access highway (think Pa Turnpike west) with no exits between I-270/Washingtonian Blvd and the river crossing. Absent that restriction, the new highway extension and crossing will quickly become a sprawl generator, yielding yet more fast casual chains, big box shopping centers, warehouses, office parks and subdivisions, all of which will leverage comvenient access to the highway. That would be true induced demand.

That’s called economic development. It’s like arguing that the Dulles Toll Road should not have had exits between 495 and the airport because Reston Town Center should still be farmland instead of HQ to several multinational corporations.

It’s called shitty development. MoCo set aside an agricultural open space reserve. An outer beltway type Potomac crossing would destroy it and bring even more traffic. Then development shills would start calling for a third circumferential crossing.