Europe’s Abortion Lesson

[Anonymous]

Europeans are generally less batshit than American Republicans, so I would not assume that letting Republicans set abortion laws will result in anything resembling Europe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Which is still more restrictive than Mississippi’s policy.

FFS, no it is not more restrictive than Mississsippi's policy. Abortion policies are about ACCESS, not just weeks of pregnancy. But sure, if your argument is that US states should provide abortion access same as Europe, I'm all for it.

Once again: can you even read? Portugal allows abortion UP UNTIL the 10th week. That is most definitely more strict than Mississippi.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Which is still more restrictive than Mississippi’s policy.

FFS, no it is not more restrictive than Mississsippi's policy. Abortion policies are about ACCESS, not just weeks of pregnancy. But sure, if your argument is that US states should provide abortion access same as Europe, I'm all for it.

Once again: can you even read? Portugal allows abortion UP UNTIL the 10th week. That is most definitely more strict than Mississippi.

DP. You are missing the point about access. In many parts of the US, women find out they are pregnant and know they want an abortion by 7 or 8 weeks, but then it can’t take several weeks beyond that to get the money together for an abortion and to travel to a clinic in there isn’t one nearby (which is the case for much of the US), make an appointment, get their mandatory ultrasound, and then return on a different day for the procedure itself. If abortion were readily accessible such that women could get an appointment at a clinic local to them within a week of finding out they are pregnant, not deal with a waiting period, and have the cost of the abortion covered by insurance as healthcare, there would be far less need for abortion after 10-12 weeks in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So much truth here. Europe’s countries all have different limits on abortion - just as we will if the states are given the right to legislate this issue. Europe has managed to let their voters make the decision.

In Europe, abortion is legal in most countries, with limits that are more strict than ours, as a result of DEMOCRATIC CHOICE.

“Note that Eu­ropean abor­tion pol­icy has mostly ended up where opin­ion polls sug­gest most Amer­i­cans would pre­fer to be: with abor­tion le­gal in the first trimester but with more re­stric­tions later, and with some checks such as a wait­ing pe­riod or parental notif­ication for mi­nors. The main abor­tion les­son from Eu­rope is that vot­ers can be trusted with such an im­por­tant is­sue.

If the U.S. Supreme Court rules on Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization as last week’s leak suggests, this new abortion politics will be an adjustment for partisans—on both sides—accustomed to haranguing 100 Senators over Supreme Court nominations rather than persuading millions of voters. But what a relief if America can look forward one day to the relative political peace Europe enjoys on this contentious moral question.”   

https://www.wsj.com/articles/europe-abortion-law-roe-v-wade-supreme-court-european-union-leak-alito-dobbs-pro-life-choice-civil-womens-rights-11651757568

Fascinating that European healthcare is a reasonable utopia on the one healthcare issue that conservatives care about, but is otherwise a socialist nightmare.

And PS - what you just described is roughly the framework of Roe/Casey. Even in the US, 90% of abortions occur in the first trimester and half of those are medication, as opposed to surgical abortion. Since the majority of Americans poll as in favor of Roe I think you'd find vast support for the above framework for abortion rights, especially if we also adopted common sense measures like making birth control free and easily accessible, which would, you know, cut down the number of unwanted pregnancies.

But that's not what's going on and no amount of WSJ editorials trying to spin it as such will make it so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thread is gaslighting, just like the people who were saying "Oh, Roe will never be overturned!" before. There is absolutely zero reason to believe that US states will naturally protect abortion rights.

The GOP has shown themselves to be misogynistic religious freaks. Now that people are slowly starting to catch on that the GOP wants to end democracy and install a fascist theocracy, they’re trying to change the subject.

People here only want democracy when they believe their “side” will win. When they lose, they want authority to make decisions for people “too stupid” to make the “right choice.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much truth here. Europe’s countries all have different limits on abortion - just as we will if the states are given the right to legislate this issue. Europe has managed to let their voters make the decision.

In Europe, abortion is legal in most countries, with limits that are more strict than ours, as a result of DEMOCRATIC CHOICE.

“Note that Eu­ropean abor­tion pol­icy has mostly ended up where opin­ion polls sug­gest most Amer­i­cans would pre­fer to be: with abor­tion le­gal in the first trimester but with more re­stric­tions later, and with some checks such as a wait­ing pe­riod or parental notif­ication for mi­nors. The main abor­tion les­son from Eu­rope is that vot­ers can be trusted with such an im­por­tant is­sue.

If the U.S. Supreme Court rules on Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization as last week’s leak suggests, this new abortion politics will be an adjustment for partisans—on both sides—accustomed to haranguing 100 Senators over Supreme Court nominations rather than persuading millions of voters. But what a relief if America can look forward one day to the relative political peace Europe enjoys on this contentious moral question.”   

https://www.wsj.com/articles/europe-abortion-law-roe-v-wade-supreme-court-european-union-leak-alito-dobbs-pro-life-choice-civil-womens-rights-11651757568

Fascinating that European healthcare is a reasonable utopia on the one healthcare issue that conservatives care about, but is otherwise a socialist nightmare.

And PS - what you just described is roughly the framework of Roe/Casey. Even in the US, 90% of abortions occur in the first trimester and half of those are medication, as opposed to surgical abortion. Since the majority of Americans poll as in favor of Roe I think you'd find vast support for the above framework for abortion rights, especially if we also adopted common sense measures like making birth control free and easily accessible, which would, you know, cut down the number of unwanted pregnancies.

But that's not what's going on and no amount of WSJ editorials trying to spin it as such will make it so.

+100. I can’t even with this disingenuous crap anymore. If you want European abortion regulations to be your model, adopt European healthcare guarantees. That’s a compromise I could get behind. But it wasn’t five minutes ago you were ranting how Obamacare was socialism because…. Reasons?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Which is still more restrictive than Mississippi’s policy.

FFS, no it is not more restrictive than Mississsippi's policy. Abortion policies are about ACCESS, not just weeks of pregnancy. But sure, if your argument is that US states should provide abortion access same as Europe, I'm all for it.

Once again: can you even read? Portugal allows abortion UP UNTIL the 10th week. That is most definitely more strict than Mississippi.

Portugal also has universal health care and women can get easy access to abortion paid for by the health care system, in a hospital. totally different.

[Anonymous]

You forgot to mention that Europe also is extremely liberal with birth control. It's easily accessible and far more easier to obtain than in america.

[Anonymous]

Europe has a much better social safety net for mothers and children if they don't have abortions. The US does not have as robust solutions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is the US the same as "Europe's countries"? Last I checked, we're a single nation. Also, Europe is not comparable at all. They have more time restrictions, but provide ample access to early-term abortion (paid for), birth control, and health care in general. But sure, if you're idea is that US policy is going to do that to, great!

The Unites States is not a nation.

The sooner you realize that, the sooner you’ll realize that the completely unequal representation our country has is not sustainable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Which is still more restrictive than Mississippi’s policy.

FFS, no it is not more restrictive than Mississsippi's policy. Abortion policies are about ACCESS, not just weeks of pregnancy. But sure, if your argument is that US states should provide abortion access same as Europe, I'm all for it.

Once again: can you even read? Portugal allows abortion UP UNTIL the 10th week. That is most definitely more strict than Mississippi.

Portugal also has universal health care and women can get easy access to abortion paid for by the health care system, in a hospital. totally different.

+1 Mississippi has ONE abortion clinic in the entire state, and stop gaslighting us saying that it’s going to stick with the 15-week ban that was this test case. Mississippi is one of 13 states with a trigger law that will outlaw abortion as soon as Roe is overturned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Which is still more restrictive than Mississippi’s policy.

FFS, no it is not more restrictive than Mississsippi's policy. Abortion policies are about ACCESS, not just weeks of pregnancy. But sure, if your argument is that US states should provide abortion access same as Europe, I'm all for it.

Once again: can you even read? Portugal allows abortion UP UNTIL the 10th week. That is most definitely more strict than Mississippi.

DP. You are missing the point about access. In many parts of the US, women find out they are pregnant and know they want an abortion by 7 or 8 weeks, but then it can’t take several weeks beyond that to get the money together for an abortion and to travel to a clinic in there isn’t one nearby (which is the case for much of the US), make an appointment, get their mandatory ultrasound, and then return on a different day for the procedure itself. If abortion were readily accessible such that women could get an appointment at a clinic local to them within a week of finding out they are pregnant, not deal with a waiting period, and have the cost of the abortion covered by insurance as healthcare, there would be far less need for abortion after 10-12 weeks in this country.

And the biggest point that the pretend common sense forced birthers are missing is that five religious extremists have pretty much made abortion illegal no matter how early it is.

(But you are correct that American women face huge barriers to actually getting an abortion that forced birthers have erected on purpose, and then those same forced birthers whine that women have abortions late. Guess what, geniuses…)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is the US the same as "Europe's countries"? Last I checked, we're a single nation. Also, Europe is not comparable at all. They have more time restrictions, but provide ample access to early-term abortion (paid for), birth control, and health care in general. But sure, if you're idea is that US policy is going to do that to, great!

America should stop having states. Only the federal government should be in charge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Which is still more restrictive than Mississippi’s policy.

FFS, no it is not more restrictive than Mississsippi's policy. Abortion policies are about ACCESS, not just weeks of pregnancy. But sure, if your argument is that US states should provide abortion access same as Europe, I'm all for it.

Once again: can you even read? Portugal allows abortion UP UNTIL the 10th week. That is most definitely more strict than Mississippi.

DP. You are missing the point about access. In many parts of the US, women find out they are pregnant and know they want an abortion by 7 or 8 weeks, but then it can’t take several weeks beyond that to get the money together for an abortion and to travel to a clinic in there isn’t one nearby (which is the case for much of the US), make an appointment, get their mandatory ultrasound, and then return on a different day for the procedure itself. If abortion were readily accessible such that women could get an appointment at a clinic local to them within a week of finding out they are pregnant, not deal with a waiting period, and have the cost of the abortion covered by insurance as healthcare, there would be far less need for abortion after 10-12 weeks in this country.

And the biggest point that the pretend common sense forced birthers are missing is that five religious extremists have pretty much made abortion illegal no matter how early it is.

(But you are correct that American women face huge barriers to actually getting an abortion that forced birthers have erected on purpose, and then those same forced birthers whine that women have abortions late. Guess what, geniuses…)

They know what they’ve done to promote a culture of death in this country. This Europe crap is just them trying to spin spin spin yet again. Fundamentalism isn’t reasonable, never is and never will be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Which is still more restrictive than Mississippi’s policy.

FFS, no it is not more restrictive than Mississsippi's policy. Abortion policies are about ACCESS, not just weeks of pregnancy. But sure, if your argument is that US states should provide abortion access same as Europe, I'm all for it.

Once again: can you even read? Portugal allows abortion UP UNTIL the 10th week. That is most definitely more strict than Mississippi.

DP. You are missing the point about access. In many parts of the US, women find out they are pregnant and know they want an abortion by 7 or 8 weeks, but then it can’t take several weeks beyond that to get the money together for an abortion and to travel to a clinic in there isn’t one nearby (which is the case for much of the US), make an appointment, get their mandatory ultrasound, and then return on a different day for the procedure itself. If abortion were readily accessible such that women could get an appointment at a clinic local to them within a week of finding out they are pregnant, not deal with a waiting period, and have the cost of the abortion covered by insurance as healthcare, there would be far less need for abortion after 10-12 weeks in this country.

And the biggest point that the pretend common sense forced birthers are missing is that five religious extremists have pretty much made abortion illegal no matter how early it is.

(But you are correct that American women face huge barriers to actually getting an abortion that forced birthers have erected on purpose, and then those same forced birthers whine that women have abortions late. Guess what, geniuses…)

They know what they’ve done to promote a culture of death in this country. This Europe crap is just them trying to spin spin spin yet again. Fundamentalism isn’t reasonable, never is and never will be.

Look at the strains of “Christianity” that the freak justices grew up with, one a literal cult member. There are people who so enjoy the miserable aspects of their religion, the punishment and brimstone, that that’s what they think religion is.