gs-15 expectations

[Anonymous]

GO BACK TO THE PRIVATE SECTOR then

Government workers only do the minimum job requirements and can’t get fired

[Anonymous]

This person could be useless, but what you should really be looking at is what are the underlying conditions in your unit or agency that led to people playing it by the book. New people come in and think they know everything, but usually there’s something at the agency that made that the least bad course of action. Are you hoping that they enact the flavor of the month project type with the new tracking system methodology that’s just the same old sh!t coming around again? They may have seen it all before and don’t want to have to undo it when you move on to,the next thing.

You don’t have anywhere near the power you think you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This person could be useless, but what you should really be looking at is what are the underlying conditions in your unit or agency that led to people playing it by the book. New people come in and think they know everything, but usually there’s something at the agency that made that the least bad course of action. Are you hoping that they enact the flavor of the month project type with the new tracking system methodology that’s just the same old sh!t coming around again? They may have seen it all before and don’t want to have to undo it when you move on to,the next thing.

You don’t have anywhere near the power you think you do.

Buh… buh… OP comes from the PRIVATE SECTOR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would the GS-15 do more than is asked? There's no room for promotion (unless they want to go SES, which for most non-supervisory GS-15s is a big no thank you). And in government, "initiative" is as likely to get someone in trouble as rewarded (to the extent rewards are even available).

So, basically: welcome to management in the federal government. If your worst problem is an employee who does what's asked and nothing more, consider yourself lucky.

I hear you and don’t fully disagree. But if you ago back to the standards for a GS-15 (OPM classification guide), 15s are expected to take an ambiguous assignment / requirements and figure it out. You should be able to articulate the desired outcome and the 15 develop and implement the path/activities to achieve it. I manage 8 GS-15s and they don’t all exceed expectations, but I have NEVER have to tell them how do get something done. They figure it out including asking clarifying questions if needed. I would discuss with HR and set a higher expectation. You’d be justified in doing so—OPM standards would support you.

[Anonymous]

OP, based on your original post and what you've added since, I think some of this is on you, and some of it is on the employee.

First, you: drop "proactive" and "self-starter" from your vocabulary. They won't serve you well in government management. Government employees aren't required to do more than they're asked, and acting like the expectation is to exceed expectations...doesn't really fly here. Thankfully.

But PP is right that a GS-15 should be able to handle complex assignments without constant hand-holding. That's not an issue of being "proactive" or a "self-starter," it's about work quality. It's not unreasonable to assign a task to a GS-15 and expect that they will return a polished work product. You'll probably need to assign exactly what you want, though—e.g., "I need a memo by Wednesday on the legal issues involved in workplace safety in llama grooming operations in western U.S. states." If they can't actually do something like that independently, talk to your government management colleagues about the process of documenting poor performance. Eventually, either the employee will start to show the independent judgment (not "initiative"—ban that word, too) expected of a GS-15, or they won't. If they don't, then you'll need to decide whether it's worth the hassle of getting rid of an underperforming employee.

But to be clear: "underperforming" means they're not doing the work they're assigned at the level expected of someone in their role. It doesn't mean they aren't "proactive" enough.

[Anonymous]

How many of you managers willing to give your staff air coverage when staff's initiative causes headaches for management? So many managers encourage staff to take the initiative until things go wrong and they refuse to back them up. Over time, why would anyone keep taking chance like that? For what for? Your staff is doing exactly what you ask for, no more, no less. There's a good reason for that OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would the GS-15 do more than is asked? There's no room for promotion (unless they want to go SES, which for most non-supervisory GS-15s is a big no thank you). And in government, "initiative" is as likely to get someone in trouble as rewarded (to the extent rewards are even available).

So, basically: welcome to management in the federal government. If your worst problem is an employee who does what's asked and nothing more, consider yourself lucky.

sorry to say I agree with this. personally I do take initiative but I know that this actually makes me more likely to get in “trouble” and less likely to succeed.

Yes, this happened early in my fed career as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would the GS-15 do more than is asked? There's no room for promotion (unless they want to go SES, which for most non-supervisory GS-15s is a big no thank you). And in government, "initiative" is as likely to get someone in trouble as rewarded (to the extent rewards are even available).

So, basically: welcome to management in the federal government. If your worst problem is an employee who does what's asked and nothing more, consider yourself lucky.

You sound very naive OP. Fellow GS 15 fed here. Unless there is excitement about the mission or a sense of advancement coming from the top, people will do their jobs and that's enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would the GS-15 do more than is asked? There's no room for promotion (unless they want to go SES, which for most non-supervisory GS-15s is a big no thank you). And in government, "initiative" is as likely to get someone in trouble as rewarded (to the extent rewards are even available).

So, basically: welcome to management in the federal government. If your worst problem is an employee who does what's asked and nothing more, consider yourself lucky.

I hear you and don’t fully disagree. But if you ago back to the standards for a GS-15 (OPM classification guide), 15s are expected to take an ambiguous assignment / requirements and figure it out. You should be able to articulate the desired outcome and the 15 develop and implement the path/activities to achieve it. I manage 8 GS-15s and they don’t all exceed expectations, but I have NEVER have to tell them how do get something done. They figure it out including asking clarifying questions if needed. I would discuss with HR and set a higher expectation. You’d be justified in doing so—OPM standards would support you.

LMAO, good luck with trying to do something to someone who is getting their work done. There are no sticks and barely any carrots. I'm a 15 and in a union, is this person?

[Anonymous]

too cheap to hire more staff?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would the GS-15 do more than is asked? There's no room for promotion (unless they want to go SES, which for most non-supervisory GS-15s is a big no thank you). And in government, "initiative" is as likely to get someone in trouble as rewarded (to the extent rewards are even available).

So, basically: welcome to management in the federal government. If your worst problem is an employee who does what's asked and nothing more, consider yourself lucky.

I hear you and don’t fully disagree. But if you ago back to the standards for a GS-15 (OPM classification guide), 15s are expected to take an ambiguous assignment / requirements and figure it out. You should be able to articulate the desired outcome and the 15 develop and implement the path/activities to achieve it. I manage 8 GS-15s and they don’t all exceed expectations, but I have NEVER have to tell them how do get something done. They figure it out including asking clarifying questions if needed. I would discuss with HR and set a higher expectation. You’d be justified in doing so—OPM standards would support you.

LMAO, good luck with trying to do something to someone who is getting their work done. There are no sticks and barely any carrots. I'm a 15 and in a union, is this person?

I'm PP and wanted to add - morale usually flags with a new supervisor, esp someone from outside the org. What have you done OP to build engagement and relationships? That will get you a lot farther than trying to find fault in performance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How many of you managers willing to give your staff air coverage when staff's initiative causes headaches for management? So many managers encourage staff to take the initiative until things go wrong and they refuse to back them up. Over time, why would anyone keep taking chance like that? For what for? Your staff is doing exactly what you ask for, no more, no less. There's a good reason for that OP.

Good fed managers provide coverage and will back their folks up. Shitty managers run for the hills...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many of you managers willing to give your staff air coverage when staff's initiative causes headaches for management? So many managers encourage staff to take the initiative until things go wrong and they refuse to back them up. Over time, why would anyone keep taking chance like that? For what for? Your staff is doing exactly what you ask for, no more, no less. There's a good reason for that OP.

Good fed managers provide coverage and will back their folks up. Shitty managers run for the hills...

I bet more don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would the GS-15 do more than is asked? There's no room for promotion (unless they want to go SES, which for most non-supervisory GS-15s is a big no thank you). And in government, "initiative" is as likely to get someone in trouble as rewarded (to the extent rewards are even available).

So, basically: welcome to management in the federal government. If your worst problem is an employee who does what's asked and nothing more, consider yourself lucky.

I hear you and don’t fully disagree. But if you ago back to the standards for a GS-15 (OPM classification guide), 15s are expected to take an ambiguous assignment / requirements and figure it out. You should be able to articulate the desired outcome and the 15 develop and implement the path/activities to achieve it. I manage 8 GS-15s and they don’t all exceed expectations, but I have NEVER have to tell them how do get something done. They figure it out including asking clarifying questions if needed. I would discuss with HR and set a higher expectation. You’d be justified in doing so—OPM standards would support you.

LMAO, good luck with trying to do something to someone who is getting their work done. There are no sticks and barely any carrots. I'm a 15 and in a union, is this person?

but they are not getting their work done independently. By the standards 15s are supposed to be independent WITHOUT guidance. If I have to ride you to get decent quality out of you, then you are not working independently and not meeting expectations. You can go read the OPM standards on that. Every PD is based on these standards. These standards are what determines the grade level. THE REAL PROBLEM is that whoever is supervising is not holding this 15 accountable to the BASIC expectations. The expectations for a 15 and GS9/11/12/13 are NOT the same. Given that this person has gotten away with performing at a GS-12 as 15 makes the situation hard to correct. But it is not irreversible. I've done it for GS-14s. I consulted with HR and executed the plan. It worked! and all three of those 14s stepped up. a few years after I moved on, I got a very nice thank you note form two of them. The supervisor that came behind me was a real stickler, but they were able to meet her expectations because they knew exactly how a 14 should perform.

And the reason why I was tough on those guys was because that federal agency was downgrading staff that could not perform at their grade level. Leadership was serious about people performing at their grade level. The head honcho downgraded one of her own SES to a GS14. That sent shockwaves throughout the organization. We saw a 15 get downgraded to a 13 and several 14s went back to 13s. They all grieved and lost because the managers worked with HR to do it the right way which included giving them time to improve their performance. They didn't and it was well documented. I didn't want my guys to experience that, so we had a half day retreat to talk about what it means to be a 14 (cheesy but it worked). We dissected the OPM standards so they could see that it wasn't me making this up. We cross walked those standards with the new performance management system the org put in place. I also had HR talk about successful characteristics and behaviors of a 14. We discussed various work assignments and talked about the various ways a 14 could approach the assignment and meet expectations and how to exceed the expectation if they chose to do so. And then I secured coaching resources for each 14 to help them with the change. I will say that the issue with my guys is they saw other 14s doing way less and thought that was ok. So when they came to our agency, they thought I and other managers had super high expectations (above and beyond). Yes and no... we really wanted them to succeed regardless if they had a laid back manager or a standards stickler. If you can meet the basic standards for a 14 you will make it under ANY management regime. So we needed to change their frame of reference on what a 14 is. It also probably helped for them to see that other managers and leaders were downgrading staff. So my guys had an open mind about improving.

so no--I don't subscribe to the "there's nothing you can do" attitude. Supervisors need to do their job--be transparent, develop people, set clear expectations and hold them accountable among other things. I've been managing in a union environment for 13 years. Unlike some of my peers, I am not afraid of the union. I will quickly get the union rep, HR and labor relations in a joint meeting and collaborate to resolve the issue. More often than not, it means a lot frustrating work on my part--especially because it seems like I'm always having to correct mistakes from past supervisors. But I believe in doing the right thing. If I didn't want to do this, I would have stayed in a non-supervisory role.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would the GS-15 do more than is asked? There's no room for promotion (unless they want to go SES, which for most non-supervisory GS-15s is a big no thank you). And in government, "initiative" is as likely to get someone in trouble as rewarded (to the extent rewards are even available).

So, basically: welcome to management in the federal government. If your worst problem is an employee who does what's asked and nothing more, consider yourself lucky.

I agree with this. There is no incentive to overperform. There is no disincentive to doing the bare minimum of what is expected of you. I am also from the private sector and found it frustrating but now I just embrace it for myself.