Assets and long term care

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Get a GOOD lawyer in the STATE OF RESIDENCE NOW! GOOD = SUCCESSFUL track record in qualifying single people in partnerships co-owning a home for Medicaid w/o jeopardizing home ownership.

Do it as soon as possible to trigger the Medicaid look back - the more quickly your mom passes through the five years, so much the better.

I don't think folks should needlessly game Medicaid, but it is pretty dang hard to see surviving spouses/partners/caregivers/adult children on the street when the ONLY asset is sold off. This is one of the PRIMARY reasons that there is little to no intergenerational transfer of wealth in poor and working class families.

No NO NO Don't waste the money on an attorney. There is no need.

[Anonymous]

This is absolutely a time when you should consult a lawyer. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for these replies. Can anyone suggest the best way to find a GOOD eldercare lawyer in Upstate NY? Mom is in the Poughkeepsie to Albany corridor.

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get a GOOD lawyer in the STATE OF RESIDENCE NOW! GOOD = SUCCESSFUL track record in qualifying single people in partnerships co-owning a home for Medicaid w/o jeopardizing home ownership.

Do it as soon as possible to trigger the Medicaid look back - the more quickly your mom passes through the five years, so much the better.

I don't think folks should needlessly game Medicaid, but it is pretty dang hard to see surviving spouses/partners/caregivers/adult children on the street when the ONLY asset is sold off. This is one of the PRIMARY reasons that there is little to no intergenerational transfer of wealth in poor and working class families.

No NO NO Don't waste the money on an attorney. There is no need.

Completely disagree. This is not the time to find out that you got the wrong advice. I worked with a woman who had A LOT OF experience in Medicaid qualification/spend down and she still made a couple mistakes on the application. While I do think Medicaid employees are biased and assume that attorneys will not make mistakes, I think they comb over applications of folks who submit on their own and ding them for even the slightest error WITHOUT EXPLAINING WHY.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for these replies. Can anyone suggest the best way to find a GOOD eldercare lawyer in Upstate NY? Mom is in the Poughkeepsie to Albany corridor.

Thanks.

I have no referrals, but since I think you said they were low income/assets (except for the house) you might try calling someplace like this for general advice?

https://www.lawhelpny.org/organization/legal-services-for-the-elderly-disabled-or-di

[Anonymous]

Hudson Valley area:

https://www.lawhelpny.org/organization/legal-services-of-the-hudson-valley-6/seniors/insurance-life-health-long-term-care?lang=EN

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get a GOOD lawyer in the STATE OF RESIDENCE NOW! GOOD = SUCCESSFUL track record in qualifying single people in partnerships co-owning a home for Medicaid w/o jeopardizing home ownership.

Do it as soon as possible to trigger the Medicaid look back - the more quickly your mom passes through the five years, so much the better.

I don't think folks should needlessly game Medicaid, but it is pretty dang hard to see surviving spouses/partners/caregivers/adult children on the street when the ONLY asset is sold off. This is one of the PRIMARY reasons that there is little to no intergenerational transfer of wealth in poor and working class families.

No NO NO Don't waste the money on an attorney. There is no need.

Completely disagree. This is not the time to find out that you got the wrong advice. I worked with a woman who had A LOT OF experience in Medicaid qualification/spend down and she still made a couple mistakes on the application. While I do think Medicaid employees are biased and assume that attorneys will not make mistakes, I think they comb over applications of folks who submit on their own and ding them for even the slightest error WITHOUT EXPLAINING WHY.

So, you have no experience. I did it, no issue. And, we had trouble proving where some money went.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is absolutely a time when you should consult a lawyer. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.

If there is no money, you don’t need an attorney.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is absolutely a time when you should consult a lawyer. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.

If there is no money, you don’t need an attorney.

I am writing in response to OP. There is a major asset at risk, OP is not married, etc. I would not mess around with this. It's also commendable that OP is looking into this even though she has no relation, step or otherwise, to her mother's partner.

FWIW, I've gone through this 4x: first for my dad where my mom was the community spouse and he was denied on the first round. He was approved on second round, but that delay ate into my mom's meager savings. I hired an attorney for the second one and approved. Then my mom was denied the first time. after the nursing home said they would handle the app. They totally bungled it and we had to go to round two. I told the nursing home to forget it and I hired the lawyer again. She got the app back on track and she was approved 13 DAYS before the nursing home was BARRED from taking any new Medicaid patients until they worked out non-patient care differences with the state. IF there had been any problems in doing it on our own, we would have been sunk as my mom had exhausted all her funds, two of my siblings were not working, and we had taken a 50% cut in HHI. For me, lesson learned - don't mess around.

When there really is no money, then perhaps it is a different story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is absolutely a time when you should consult a lawyer. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.

If there is no money, you don’t need an attorney.

I am writing in response to OP. There is a major asset at risk, OP is not married, etc. I would not mess around with this. It's also commendable that OP is looking into this even though she has no relation, step or otherwise, to her mother's partner.

FWIW, I've gone through this 4x: first for my dad where my mom was the community spouse and he was denied on the first round. He was approved on second round, but that delay ate into my mom's meager savings. I hired an attorney for the second one and approved. Then my mom was denied the first time. after the nursing home said they would handle the app. They totally bungled it and we had to go to round two. I told the nursing home to forget it and I hired the lawyer again. She got the app back on track and she was approved 13 DAYS before the nursing home was BARRED from taking any new Medicaid patients until they worked out non-patient care differences with the state. IF there had been any problems in doing it on our own, we would have been sunk as my mom had exhausted all her funds, two of my siblings were not working, and we had taken a 50% cut in HHI. For me, lesson learned - don't mess around.

When there really is no money, then perhaps it is a different story.

It doesn't sound like the savings were actually that meager. I had zero issues on the first try getting my MIL approved. The discussion is the only money mom has is in the house which is co-owed. Read the rules. They will place a lien on the house but not make him sell it and he may have rights to the house as well. Your situation is very different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is absolutely a time when you should consult a lawyer. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.

If there is no money, you don’t need an attorney.

I am writing in response to OP. There is a major asset at risk, OP is not married, etc. I would not mess around with this. It's also commendable that OP is looking into this even though she has no relation, step or otherwise, to her mother's partner.

FWIW, I've gone through this 4x: first for my dad where my mom was the community spouse and he was denied on the first round. He was approved on second round, but that delay ate into my mom's meager savings. I hired an attorney for the second one and approved. Then my mom was denied the first time. after the nursing home said they would handle the app. They totally bungled it and we had to go to round two. I told the nursing home to forget it and I hired the lawyer again. She got the app back on track and she was approved 13 DAYS before the nursing home was BARRED from taking any new Medicaid patients until they worked out non-patient care differences with the state. IF there had been any problems in doing it on our own, we would have been sunk as my mom had exhausted all her funds, two of my siblings were not working, and we had taken a 50% cut in HHI. For me, lesson learned - don't mess around.

When there really is no money, then perhaps it is a different story.

It doesn't sound like the savings were actually that meager. I had zero issues on the first try getting my MIL approved. The discussion is the only money mom has is in the house which is co-owed. Read the rules. They will place a lien on the house but not make him sell it and he may have rights to the house as well. Your situation is very different.

First, my mother's savings were meager in that they were under the community spouse allowed limit. Every month my dad did not qualify meant that my mom's savings were dinged by $9000. so in three months, she is out nearly $30,000. That is a lot of money when the only other source of income is Social Security, especially as my siblings are not flush with cash.

Second, I would not want to stake my home on "may have rights to the house." May is doing too much work in that sentence without the benefit of a lawyer's expertise. I'd rather spend $4500 on a lawyer than lose hundreds of thousands in the forfeit of a house.

No one wants to rely on "may"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


Second, I would not want to stake my home on "may have rights to the house." May is doing too much work in that sentence without the benefit of a lawyer's expertise. I'd rather spend $4500 on a lawyer than lose hundreds of thousands in the forfeit of a house.

No one wants to rely on "may"

Yeah, my concern would be that OP's mom may be forced to sell her half of the house in order to pay for care and then qualify for Medicaid.

[Anonymous]

New York Times is looking into these issues of finances and long term care and inviting people to contribute:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/30/science/long-term-care-costs.html?smid=url-share

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New York Times is looking into these issues of finances and long term care and inviting people to contribute:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/30/science/long-term-care-costs.html?smid=url-share

Wow, this is great, though the survey is fairly self selective. For example, my parents, now deceased, were working class, only read the NYT when I was home and bought it, and never used a computer before they passed away. Will be interesting to read whatever is produced from the responses.

I don't read the NYT every day so hope someone comes here posts in this forum when the article is published.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Second, I would not want to stake my home on "may have rights to the house." May is doing too much work in that sentence without the benefit of a lawyer's expertise. I'd rather spend $4500 on a lawyer than lose hundreds of thousands in the forfeit of a house.

No one wants to rely on "may"

Yeah, my concern would be that OP's mom may be forced to sell her half of the house in order to pay for care and then qualify for Medicaid.

Agree. Getting an expert's advice, especially a lawyer versed in how Medicaid works in that state and may even be recognized by staff in the Medicaid office could be essential. Wish that the law was the same from state to state in re Medicaid, but that's not the case.