Possible AAP changes at ES

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make opt-in AAP available for all, but then create a true gifted program for truly gifted--not just bright--kids.

What qualifies them as truly gifted? Test scores? Back to square 1.

Test scores much higher than the current cut-offs, for one.

A 132 on a test such as the Cogat or NNAT reasonably identifies gifted students. The complaints are about the students who are admitted who scored much lower on both tests and on all subsections.

It honestly doesn’t. Mine had a CogAT of 138. She’s smart. She’s not gifted. She has a friend who had a perfect score on the NNAT. Also not gifted. The gifted kids I know (handful) that have taken the CogAT scored in the 150s (without any prep). You’d probably need to use IQ tests to identify most of them.

I have a friend elsewhere in the country, whose daughter was screened for gifted services after she was identified by her teachers. They don’t have this sort of let’s give everyone an ability test and call it done approach, and since the screening test is an IQ test, is much more likely to actually identify giftedness.

WISC would be the better option than the CogAT or NNAT, which parents can prep students for in private tutoring. This can't be done for a WISC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make opt-in AAP available for all, but then create a true gifted program for truly gifted--not just bright--kids.

What qualifies them as truly gifted? Test scores? Back to square 1.

Test scores much higher than the current cut-offs, for one.

A 132 on a test such as the Cogat or NNAT reasonably identifies gifted students. The complaints are about the students who are admitted who scored much lower on both tests and on all subsections.

It honestly doesn’t. Mine had a CogAT of 138. She’s smart. She’s not gifted. She has a friend who had a perfect score on the NNAT. Also not gifted. The gifted kids I know (handful) that have taken the CogAT scored in the 150s (without any prep). You’d probably need to use IQ tests to identify most of them.

I have a friend elsewhere in the country, whose daughter was screened for gifted services after she was identified by her teachers. They don’t have this sort of let’s give everyone an ability test and call it done approach, and since the screening test is an IQ test, is much more likely to actually identify giftedness.

WISC would be the better option than the CogAT or NNAT, which parents can prep students for in private tutoring. This can't be done for a WISC.

Sure. You can prep for a WISC too. Some people even do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make opt-in AAP available for all, but then create a true gifted program for truly gifted--not just bright--kids.

What qualifies them as truly gifted? Test scores? Back to square 1.

Test scores much higher than the current cut-offs, for one.

A 132 on a test such as the Cogat or NNAT reasonably identifies gifted students. The complaints are about the students who are admitted who scored much lower on both tests and on all subsections.

It honestly doesn’t. Mine had a CogAT of 138. She’s smart. She’s not gifted. She has a friend who had a perfect score on the NNAT. Also not gifted. The gifted kids I know (handful) that have taken the CogAT scored in the 150s (without any prep). You’d probably need to use IQ tests to identify most of them.

I have a friend elsewhere in the country, whose daughter was screened for gifted services after she was identified by her teachers. They don’t have this sort of let’s give everyone an ability test and call it done approach, and since the screening test is an IQ test, is much more likely to actually identify giftedness.

WISC would be the better option than the CogAT or NNAT, which parents can prep students for in private tutoring. This can't be done for a WISC.

Sure. You can prep for a WISC too. Some people even do that.

+100

https://www.testingmom.com/tests/wisc-test/wisc-test-prep/

[Anonymous]

We've lived elsewhere and the "gifted" kids get extra assignments based on their "giftedness". I remember a 4th grader writing her own book, a 1st grader exploring different computer programs to create presentations about something he was interested in.

As for accelerated math, the 4th grade teachers pulled each kid at the beginning of the year and asked certain questions. If your kids answered in a certain way, and there is no way to prep, they were in the 4/5th compacted math class.

As for accelerated math in the earlier years, teachers would select a few kids to go to "challenge math" if they scored well on pretests.

When we moved here, my kid (who is in accelerated math), was astonished by the number of kids who couldn't do simple multiplication/division in their heads.

People in FCPS may think their kids are gifted, but......take a look at other areas......you'd be surprised.

[Anonymous]

Not being able to do mental maths just means that they haven’t mastered the proper methods. That isn’t necessarily a sign of lesser intelligence

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Received word of a meeting coming up highlighting some proposed changes to "class placement" for next year. Some of the bulleted items include:

1. Additional classroom for student receiving Level IV services (i.e. a 2nd AAP classroom)
2. Teachers 3-6th provide Level IV curriculum to ALL (yes, it was capitalized)
3. Specific differentiation to groups

the Why? Access and Opportunity to ALL students (again, capitalized)

Our school is local level IV and our child is already in AAP, so it shouldn't affect us. Just wondering if there are other ES's going the same route. I have heard from some parents that there are a multitude of kids designated as "Level III" but the AAP can't accommodate them all (the AART teacher has taken on the load), so maybe that's what's driving it?

Is one additional classroom only for students receiving level 2 services in grade 2? Currently they are in same classroom as all other kids.
Fees kids receiving level 2 services in grade 2 do not get selected for level IV services. How will that work out? Level IV starts from grade 3.

What are you trying to say?

[Anonymous]

Teacher here who has taught AAP and regular. It truly depends on your school make up. Very few schools have full Gen Ed programs who can handle AAP curriculum in science and SS. You need to be a strong reader. My SS curriculum is pretty much built on primary sources and even kids who are reading at a 7th grade level find it challenging. If a kid is way below grade level in reading, they will struggle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here who has taught AAP and regular. It truly depends on your school make up. Very few schools have full Gen Ed programs who can handle AAP curriculum in science and SS. You need to be a strong reader. My SS curriculum is pretty much built on primary sources and even kids who are reading at a 7th grade level find it challenging. If a kid is way below grade level in reading, they will struggle.

Why does AAP assume a child needs to be a strong reader in order to have critical thinking skills? This is the biggest drawback I find to AAP -- my child can handle the critical thinking, complex thought processes, etc., but is not a strong reader and therefore wasn't allowed in AAP. She's bored out of her mind with science and social studies, and could definitely handle the AAP curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here who has taught AAP and regular. It truly depends on your school make up. Very few schools have full Gen Ed programs who can handle AAP curriculum in science and SS. You need to be a strong reader. My SS curriculum is pretty much built on primary sources and even kids who are reading at a 7th grade level find it challenging. If a kid is way below grade level in reading, they will struggle.

Why does AAP assume a child needs to be a strong reader in order to have critical thinking skills? This is the biggest drawback I find to AAP -- my child can handle the critical thinking, complex thought processes, etc., but is not a strong reader and therefore wasn't allowed in AAP. She's bored out of her mind with science and social studies, and could definitely handle the AAP curriculum.

AAP is based on the idea that the kids can pick up material more quickly and do more independent work then Gen Ed. That requires that the kids are strong readers because they have to read more. They are doing their own research. How would your child keep up with tasks if they can not read at the pace and depth that is necessary?

This goes for writing as well, the kids write more in AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here who has taught AAP and regular. It truly depends on your school make up. Very few schools have full Gen Ed programs who can handle AAP curriculum in science and SS. You need to be a strong reader. My SS curriculum is pretty much built on primary sources and even kids who are reading at a 7th grade level find it challenging. If a kid is way below grade level in reading, they will struggle.

Why does AAP assume a child needs to be a strong reader in order to have critical thinking skills? This is the biggest drawback I find to AAP -- my child can handle the critical thinking, complex thought processes, etc., but is not a strong reader and therefore wasn't allowed in AAP. She's bored out of her mind with science and social studies, and could definitely handle the AAP curriculum.

AAP is more than critical thinking. There is a lot of reading involved! No one is saying all kids can benefit from critical thinking, but to say she could definitely handle a curriculum that is heavy in reading doesn’t make any sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here who has taught AAP and regular. It truly depends on your school make up. Very few schools have full Gen Ed programs who can handle AAP curriculum in science and SS. You need to be a strong reader. My SS curriculum is pretty much built on primary sources and even kids who are reading at a 7th grade level find it challenging. If a kid is way below grade level in reading, they will struggle.

Why does AAP assume a child needs to be a strong reader in order to have critical thinking skills? This is the biggest drawback I find to AAP -- my child can handle the critical thinking, complex thought processes, etc., but is not a strong reader and therefore wasn't allowed in AAP. She's bored out of her mind with science and social studies, and could definitely handle the AAP curriculum.

Well if you read the teacher’s previous post she said there is a lot of reading involved. So if your child isn’t a strong reader how will she be able to handle all the reading?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be nice to provide access to AAP curriculum for all the elementary students (similar to Honors and AP courses in high school) and students could opt for it provide some some pre-reqs are met and/or teacher recommendations. I never liked AAP selections based some test kids take in 1st and 2nd grades.

+1 to this idea

Wrong! NNAT & CogAT test results only matter a bit in the selection process! You know there are a lot of other things, right?

[Anonymous]

I think parents in this area are obsessed with AAP. Kids will be gone even if they are not in AAP.
Selection process is holistic but test scores and GBRS are the main ones. Reading is important but done kids do become advanced readers in 3rd and 4th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think parents in this area are obsessed with AAP. Kids will be gone even if they are not in AAP.
Selection process is holistic but test scores and GBRS are the main ones. Reading is important but done kids do become advanced readers in 3rd and 4th grade.

Parents in this forum are but most parents could care less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think parents in this area are obsessed with AAP. Kids will be gone even if they are not in AAP.
Selection process is holistic but test scores and GBRS are the main ones. Reading is important but done kids do become advanced readers in 3rd and 4th grade.

When I moved here, in my early 20s, my earnest co-workers said that I should move to Fairfax County when I had kids, for the GT program. This was in DC. AAP is well-known throughout the region and lots of families move here for it, including us.

I'm continually surprised at how oblivious the school board is to this. I mean, I've realized over the years that parts of the FCPS administration is openly hostile towards AAP and is trying to get rid of it. I thought the school board would have known better. But they don't.