More than 1 million fewer students are in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a significant segment of our society that was sold on the "value" of a college education over the past 20 years as enrollment rose by 30%. The shock of the past two years awoke a lot of young people to the costs and debt burden of college while revealing a working world that doesn't financially justify the expense.

None of that applies to the typical DCUM household but I see it in the families of my coworkers who are in the $30k-$70k income demographic.

But that is the group that is most benefitted by college actually. They get decent FA and the lifetime economic benefits of a college degree still vastly outweigh the costs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a significant segment of our society that was sold on the "value" of a college education over the past 20 years as enrollment rose by 30%. The shock of the past two years awoke a lot of young people to the costs and debt burden of college while revealing a working world that doesn't financially justify the expense.

None of that applies to the typical DCUM household but I see it in the families of my coworkers who are in the $30k-$70k income demographic.

But that is the group that is most benefitted by college actually. They get decent FA and the lifetime economic benefits of a college degree still vastly outweigh the costs.

Ugh, this is just not true. They get decent FA if they happen to be studious/talented and know about schools that offer FA and are accepted at a school that provides such aid, but many will attend schools where they have to take out significant loans.

Also, there are numerous degrees that have negative ROIs on average. Add to that, they know many people that take out loans and only make it 2 years, so now it is the worst of both worlds...no degree and student loans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a significant segment of our society that was sold on the "value" of a college education over the past 20 years as enrollment rose by 30%. The shock of the past two years awoke a lot of young people to the costs and debt burden of college while revealing a working world that doesn't financially justify the expense.

None of that applies to the typical DCUM household but I see it in the families of my coworkers who are in the $30k-$70k income demographic.

But that is the group that is most benefitted by college actually. They get decent FA and the lifetime economic benefits of a college degree still vastly outweigh the costs.

Ugh, this is just not true. They get decent FA if they happen to be studious/talented and know about schools that offer FA and are accepted at a school that provides such aid, but many will attend schools where they have to take out significant loans.

Also, there are numerous degrees that have negative ROIs on average. Add to that, they know many people that take out loans and only make it 2 years, so now it is the worst of both worlds...no degree and student loans.

Well the data do suggest that the economic benefit is true--on average--and for kids from this family income group. The best path for the less academically able is CC then transfer. Just because some make bad decisions (e.g., attend a for profit college, take out excessive loans for a low-paying major) doesn't make the overall pattern less true. I think we as a society have to provide better guidance on taking out loans and the ROI on different career paths, but college is still paying off---especially for those from middle class families.

[Anonymous]

Nearly 3 pages and nobody has mentioned college readiness rates for young men. They're in the toilet. Why wouldn't college enrollments drop when less than 1 in 3 boys can even meet the fairly low bar of "college ready"? Most American boys are dull and unambitious dipsh*ts addicted to vape, marijuana, videos games, porn, and/or sports gambling. It's really sad. And nobody cares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a significant segment of our society that was sold on the "value" of a college education over the past 20 years as enrollment rose by 30%. The shock of the past two years awoke a lot of young people to the costs and debt burden of college while revealing a working world that doesn't financially justify the expense.

None of that applies to the typical DCUM household but I see it in the families of my coworkers who are in the $30k-$70k income demographic.

But that is the group that is most benefitted by college actually. They get decent FA and the lifetime economic benefits of a college degree still vastly outweigh the costs.

Ugh, this is just not true. They get decent FA if they happen to be studious/talented and know about schools that offer FA and are accepted at a school that provides such aid, but many will attend schools where they have to take out significant loans.

Also, there are numerous degrees that have negative ROIs on average. Add to that, they know many people that take out loans and only make it 2 years, so now it is the worst of both worlds...no degree and student loans.

Well the data do suggest that the economic benefit is true--on average--and for kids from this family income group. The best path for the less academically able is CC then transfer. Just because some make bad decisions (e.g., attend a for profit college, take out excessive loans for a low-paying major) doesn't make the overall pattern less true. I think we as a society have to provide better guidance on taking out loans and the ROI on different career paths, but college is still paying off---especially for those from middle class families.

Great, so if we just fix overall society problems...then hey, no worries. Here are the facts below. Something for either side of the debate glob onto:

Key Findings (https://freopp.org/is-college-worth-it-a-comprehensive-return-on-investment-analysis-1b2ad17f84c8)
This report estimates return on investment (ROI) — the increase in lifetime earnings minus the costs of college — for nearly 30,000 bachelor’s degrees.
For students who graduate on time, the median bachelor’s degree has a net ROI of $306,000. But some degrees are worth millions of dollars, while others have no net financial value at all.
After accounting for the risk of dropping out, ROI for the median bachelor’s degree drops to $129,000. Over a quarter of programs have negative ROI.
Four in five engineering programs have ROI above $500,000, but the same is true for just 1% of psychology programs.
Elite schools such as Caltech and Penn dominate the list of highest ROI programs. But attending an elite school is not a golden ticket; some Ivy League degrees have negative ROI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting article. Particularly interested in what people who think it is "harder to get admitted now" think of it.

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/13/1072529477/more-than-1-million-fewer-students-are-in-college-the-lowest-enrollment-numbers-

People are realizing that shitty colleges and dumb majors are worthless especially if you have to accumulate student loan debt.
A lot of colleges should go out of business.

yet somehow my very expensive liberals arts school with precisely zero career oriented majors has been experiencing record applications (as have its peers)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a significant segment of our society that was sold on the "value" of a college education over the past 20 years as enrollment rose by 30%. The shock of the past two years awoke a lot of young people to the costs and debt burden of college while revealing a working world that doesn't financially justify the expense.

None of that applies to the typical DCUM household but I see it in the families of my coworkers who are in the $30k-$70k income demographic.

But that is the group that is most benefitted by college actually. They get decent FA and the lifetime economic benefits of a college degree still vastly outweigh the costs.

FA at almost every school comes in the form of loans. Not everywhere is Harvard were need gets met through grants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a significant segment of our society that was sold on the "value" of a college education over the past 20 years as enrollment rose by 30%. The shock of the past two years awoke a lot of young people to the costs and debt burden of college while revealing a working world that doesn't financially justify the expense.

None of that applies to the typical DCUM household but I see it in the families of my coworkers who are in the $30k-$70k income demographic.

But that is the group that is most benefitted by college actually. They get decent FA and the lifetime economic benefits of a college degree still vastly outweigh the costs.

Ugh, this is just not true. They get decent FA if they happen to be studious/talented and know about schools that offer FA and are accepted at a school that provides such aid, but many will attend schools where they have to take out significant loans.

Also, there are numerous degrees that have negative ROIs on average. Add to that, they know many people that take out loans and only make it 2 years, so now it is the worst of both worlds...no degree and student loans.

Well the data do suggest that the economic benefit is true--on average--and for kids from this family income group. The best path for the less academically able is CC then transfer. Just because some make bad decisions (e.g., attend a for profit college, take out excessive loans for a low-paying major) doesn't make the overall pattern less true. I think we as a society have to provide better guidance on taking out loans and the ROI on different career paths, but college is still paying off---especially for those from middle class families.

Great, so if we just fix overall society problems...then hey, no worries. Here are the facts below. Something for either side of the debate glob onto:

Key Findings (https://freopp.org/is-college-worth-it-a-comprehensive-return-on-investment-analysis-1b2ad17f84c8)
This report estimates return on investment (ROI) — the increase in lifetime earnings minus the costs of college — for nearly 30,000 bachelor’s degrees.
For students who graduate on time, the median bachelor’s degree has a net ROI of $306,000. But some degrees are worth millions of dollars, while others have no net financial value at all.
After accounting for the risk of dropping out, ROI for the median bachelor’s degree drops to $129,000. Over a quarter of programs have negative ROI.
Four in five engineering programs have ROI above $500,000, but the same is true for just 1% of psychology programs.
Elite schools such as Caltech and Penn dominate the list of highest ROI programs. But attending an elite school is not a golden ticket; some Ivy League degrees have negative ROI.

They didn't measure lifetime earnings here--only to age 45. That's where the difference between being educated and not make a big difference. Many analysis do the full 40 year ROI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting article. Particularly interested in what people who think it is "harder to get admitted now" think of it.

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/13/1072529477/more-than-1-million-fewer-students-are-in-college-the-lowest-enrollment-numbers-

People are realizing that shitty colleges and dumb majors are worthless especially if you have to accumulate student loan debt.
A lot of colleges should go out of business.

yet somehow my very expensive liberals arts school with precisely zero career oriented majors has been experiencing record applications (as have its peers)

Funny...so you think you went to a shitty college? I believe the PP was combining the two...shitty college and dumb major. If you were to start at the bottom of the rankings of the 223 liberal arts colleges, you will likely find enrollment and applications are struggling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a significant segment of our society that was sold on the "value" of a college education over the past 20 years as enrollment rose by 30%. The shock of the past two years awoke a lot of young people to the costs and debt burden of college while revealing a working world that doesn't financially justify the expense.

None of that applies to the typical DCUM household but I see it in the families of my coworkers who are in the $30k-$70k income demographic.

But that is the group that is most benefitted by college actually. They get decent FA and the lifetime economic benefits of a college degree still vastly outweigh the costs.

Ugh, this is just not true. They get decent FA if they happen to be studious/talented and know about schools that offer FA and are accepted at a school that provides such aid, but many will attend schools where they have to take out significant loans.

Also, there are numerous degrees that have negative ROIs on average. Add to that, they know many people that take out loans and only make it 2 years, so now it is the worst of both worlds...no degree and student loans.

Well the data do suggest that the economic benefit is true--on average--and for kids from this family income group. The best path for the less academically able is CC then transfer. Just because some make bad decisions (e.g., attend a for profit college, take out excessive loans for a low-paying major) doesn't make the overall pattern less true. I think we as a society have to provide better guidance on taking out loans and the ROI on different career paths, but college is still paying off---especially for those from middle class families.

Great, so if we just fix overall society problems...then hey, no worries. Here are the facts below. Something for either side of the debate glob onto:

Key Findings (https://freopp.org/is-college-worth-it-a-comprehensive-return-on-investment-analysis-1b2ad17f84c8)
This report estimates return on investment (ROI) — the increase in lifetime earnings minus the costs of college — for nearly 30,000 bachelor’s degrees.
For students who graduate on time, the median bachelor’s degree has a net ROI of $306,000. But some degrees are worth millions of dollars, while others have no net financial value at all.
After accounting for the risk of dropping out, ROI for the median bachelor’s degree drops to $129,000. Over a quarter of programs have negative ROI.
Four in five engineering programs have ROI above $500,000, but the same is true for just 1% of psychology programs.
Elite schools such as Caltech and Penn dominate the list of highest ROI programs. But attending an elite school is not a golden ticket; some Ivy League degrees have negative ROI.

They didn't measure lifetime earnings here--only to age 45. That's where the difference between being educated and not make a big difference. Many analysis do the full 40 year ROI.

That really does not make any sense...the nominal ROI will be higher for the engineering grad over that time period, but it will just be more negative for the 99% of the psychology graduates. If you are not established in your career at 45, it is rare/exceedingly hard to make it up starting at that time.

So yes, the overall ROI of $306,000 should go up...although remember that once you go beyond the 23rd year (i.e., average kid graduates at 22), the nominal discounted amounts get very small.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting article. Particularly interested in what people who think it is "harder to get admitted now" think of it.

https://www.npr.org/2022/01/13/1072529477/more-than-1-million-fewer-students-are-in-college-the-lowest-enrollment-numbers-

People are realizing that shitty colleges and dumb majors are worthless especially if you have to accumulate student loan debt.
A lot of colleges should go out of business.

yet somehow my very expensive liberals arts school with precisely zero career oriented majors has been experiencing record applications (as have its peers)

Funny...so you think you went to a shitty college? I believe the PP was combining the two...shitty college and dumb major. If you were to start at the bottom of the rankings of the 223 liberal arts colleges, you will likely find enrollment and applications are struggling.

No, I think I went to a school that only had 'dumb' majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a significant segment of our society that was sold on the "value" of a college education over the past 20 years as enrollment rose by 30%. The shock of the past two years awoke a lot of young people to the costs and debt burden of college while revealing a working world that doesn't financially justify the expense.

None of that applies to the typical DCUM household but I see it in the families of my coworkers who are in the $30k-$70k income demographic.

But that is the group that is most benefitted by college actually. They get decent FA and the lifetime economic benefits of a college degree still vastly outweigh the costs.

Ugh, this is just not true. They get decent FA if they happen to be studious/talented and know about schools that offer FA and are accepted at a school that provides such aid, but many will attend schools where they have to take out significant loans.

Also, there are numerous degrees that have negative ROIs on average. Add to that, they know many people that take out loans and only make it 2 years, so now it is the worst of both worlds...no degree and student loans.

Well the data do suggest that the economic benefit is true--on average--and for kids from this family income group. The best path for the less academically able is CC then transfer. Just because some make bad decisions (e.g., attend a for profit college, take out excessive loans for a low-paying major) doesn't make the overall pattern less true. I think we as a society have to provide better guidance on taking out loans and the ROI on different career paths, but college is still paying off---especially for those from middle class families.

Great, so if we just fix overall society problems...then hey, no worries. Here are the facts below. Something for either side of the debate glob onto:

Key Findings (https://freopp.org/is-college-worth-it-a-comprehensive-return-on-investment-analysis-1b2ad17f84c8)
This report estimates return on investment (ROI) — the increase in lifetime earnings minus the costs of college — for nearly 30,000 bachelor’s degrees.
For students who graduate on time, the median bachelor’s degree has a net ROI of $306,000. But some degrees are worth millions of dollars, while others have no net financial value at all.
After accounting for the risk of dropping out, ROI for the median bachelor’s degree drops to $129,000. Over a quarter of programs have negative ROI.
Four in five engineering programs have ROI above $500,000, but the same is true for just 1% of psychology programs.
Elite schools such as Caltech and Penn dominate the list of highest ROI programs. But attending an elite school is not a golden ticket; some Ivy League degrees have negative ROI.

They didn't measure lifetime earnings here--only to age 45. That's where the difference between being educated and not make a big difference. Many analysis do the full 40 year ROI.

That really does not make any sense...the nominal ROI will be higher for the engineering grad over that time period, but it will just be more negative for the 99% of the psychology graduates. If you are not established in your career at 45, it is rare/exceedingly hard to make it up starting at that time.

So yes, the overall ROI of $306,000 should go up...although remember that once you go beyond the 23rd year (i.e., average kid graduates at 22), the nominal discounted amounts get very small.

A typical trajectory for many liberal arts majors is to work for a while, then go to graduate school. Psychology majors are also predominately women who may slow down work pace to raise children return to graduate school and then have highest earnings 35+. The actual data of 40 years returns show this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a significant segment of our society that was sold on the "value" of a college education over the past 20 years as enrollment rose by 30%. The shock of the past two years awoke a lot of young people to the costs and debt burden of college while revealing a working world that doesn't financially justify the expense.

None of that applies to the typical DCUM household but I see it in the families of my coworkers who are in the $30k-$70k income demographic.

But that is the group that is most benefitted by college actually. They get decent FA and the lifetime economic benefits of a college degree still vastly outweigh the costs.

Ugh, this is just not true. They get decent FA if they happen to be studious/talented and know about schools that offer FA and are accepted at a school that provides such aid, but many will attend schools where they have to take out significant loans.

Also, there are numerous degrees that have negative ROIs on average. Add to that, they know many people that take out loans and only make it 2 years, so now it is the worst of both worlds...no degree and student loans.

Well the data do suggest that the economic benefit is true--on average--and for kids from this family income group. The best path for the less academically able is CC then transfer. Just because some make bad decisions (e.g., attend a for profit college, take out excessive loans for a low-paying major) doesn't make the overall pattern less true. I think we as a society have to provide better guidance on taking out loans and the ROI on different career paths, but college is still paying off---especially for those from middle class families.

Great, so if we just fix overall society problems...then hey, no worries. Here are the facts below. Something for either side of the debate glob onto:

Key Findings (https://freopp.org/is-college-worth-it-a-comprehensive-return-on-investment-analysis-1b2ad17f84c8)
This report estimates return on investment (ROI) — the increase in lifetime earnings minus the costs of college — for nearly 30,000 bachelor’s degrees.
For students who graduate on time, the median bachelor’s degree has a net ROI of $306,000. But some degrees are worth millions of dollars, while others have no net financial value at all.
After accounting for the risk of dropping out, ROI for the median bachelor’s degree drops to $129,000. Over a quarter of programs have negative ROI.
Four in five engineering programs have ROI above $500,000, but the same is true for just 1% of psychology programs.
Elite schools such as Caltech and Penn dominate the list of highest ROI programs. But attending an elite school is not a golden ticket; some Ivy League degrees have negative ROI.

They didn't measure lifetime earnings here--only to age 45. That's where the difference between being educated and not make a big difference. Many analysis do the full 40 year ROI.

That really does not make any sense...the nominal ROI will be higher for the engineering grad over that time period, but it will just be more negative for the 99% of the psychology graduates. If you are not established in your career at 45, it is rare/exceedingly hard to make it up starting at that time.

So yes, the overall ROI of $306,000 should go up...although remember that once you go beyond the 23rd year (i.e., average kid graduates at 22), the nominal discounted amounts get very small.

A typical trajectory for many liberal arts majors is to work for a while, then go to graduate school. Psychology majors are also predominately women who may slow down work pace to raise children return to graduate school and then have highest earnings 35+. The actual data of 40 years returns show this.

You may be right...post it for all to see.

[Anonymous]

This story does not fit the narrative of how hard this cohort has it. Harder than any prior graduating class. (Which, if you search this forum back in time, is reported by parents most years, in response to their kid getting rejected...)

[Anonymous]

Again with the ROI poster.

My kid is not a Hedge Fund.