ECNL moving to school year not calendar

[Anonymous]

My kid was home schooled we used May 1st.


Now what?

How do you police?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the higher leagues ECNL Mlsn ga need to have the same cutoff as the pipeline or chaos and they risk losing business without being able to move kids up and down year to year

Actually its in leagues best interest to have wacky cutoff dates that are different from other teams. This is because it won't allow teams from different leagues to play each other in tournaments. They will be forced to only play at events run by the league.

Huh, how does this even make sense? Clubs hosting tournaments want fewer teams to be able to play in their tournaments? These money grubbing clubs want to leave dollars on the table? I don't buy that one.

ECNL/MLSN/GA don’t care about clubs making money they care about making money. Having a league with its own unique cut offs is easier to isolate their teams to attend private league showcases.

How does anyone make more money when you shrink your player pool? That isn't logical

Logical to the SY+ guy who wants a league to have a good cutoff for his own.

Are you really this dense? Or just a troll?

SY+60 = a 9/1 cutoff and 60 days before if players can prove grade enrolled and age. It completely gets rid of trapped players. Also as a bonus it doesnt allow players to regrade down for wins.

It's just SY with a 9/1 cutoff and a specific expemtion for addressing trapped players that still exist with a single cutoff date.

Another way to think about SY+60 is GY without the regrades.

There are always going to be kids who get "held back" in their early years of education - regardless of their birthdate. And in states with an 8/1 enrollment date for kindergarten, it's normal for parents of May / June birthdays to hold their kids back. So even with a SY+60 (meaning July 1), you're still going to have trapped players. The only way to get rid of trapped players is to go fully GY.

I would say theres a different between kids who are in a grade because their school district started a couple of months before 9/1 and a kid who's a 16 year old freshman (ie regrade).

One is in the situation through no fault of their own. The other is specifically looking to exploit the system being the biggest kid on the team.

Yes but how do you differentiate between the two if making a system where those kids can compete.

Also no way to prove who’s exploiting the system by holding back for sports as parents can always attribute to various things such as emotional maturity or academically not being able to move ahead which are real life factors.

It’s either GY and everyone just goes with the grace and we have to deal with it or just stay with a one year period and some kids unfortunately will have to sit out.

Unless they decide to allow for U19 and U18 as part of club soccer.

What are you talking about? Theres a very easy way to determine who's cheating and who's not.

ALL school districts in America start on after or slightly before 9/1. 90% of the school districts in America that start before 9/1 start within 30 days before 9/1. The rest start in July and most are things like July 31st.

These are the trapped players.

Everyone born +61 or +180 or +900 are regrades looking to play down to exploit being older and playing against younger competition.

GY is fine if you do it the SY+60 way. Just keep the cheaters out and everyone is happy.

Is ECNL going to ask every kid what school district they are from and look for their cut offs? You can be from a state like California has a bunch of districts that are not all the same.

No, players just provide a birth cert that proves age and proof of grade enrolled.

That wouldn’t work? Because how do you prove school cut off. Would be steps I doubt ECNL would want to deal with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the higher leagues ECNL Mlsn ga need to have the same cutoff as the pipeline or chaos and they risk losing business without being able to move kids up and down year to year

Actually its in leagues best interest to have wacky cutoff dates that are different from other teams. This is because it won't allow teams from different leagues to play each other in tournaments. They will be forced to only play at events run by the league.

Huh, how does this even make sense? Clubs hosting tournaments want fewer teams to be able to play in their tournaments? These money grubbing clubs want to leave dollars on the table? I don't buy that one.

ECNL/MLSN/GA don’t care about clubs making money they care about making money. Having a league with its own unique cut offs is easier to isolate their teams to attend private league showcases.

How does anyone make more money when you shrink your player pool? That isn't logical

Logical to the SY+ guy who wants a league to have a good cutoff for his own.

Are you really this dense? Or just a troll?

SY+60 = a 9/1 cutoff and 60 days before if players can prove grade enrolled and age. It completely gets rid of trapped players. Also as a bonus it doesnt allow players to regrade down for wins.

It's just SY with a 9/1 cutoff and a specific expemtion for addressing trapped players that still exist with a single cutoff date.

Another way to think about SY+60 is GY without the regrades.

There are always going to be kids who get "held back" in their early years of education - regardless of their birthdate. And in states with an 8/1 enrollment date for kindergarten, it's normal for parents of May / June birthdays to hold their kids back. So even with a SY+60 (meaning July 1), you're still going to have trapped players. The only way to get rid of trapped players is to go fully GY.

I would say theres a different between kids who are in a grade because their school district started a couple of months before 9/1 and a kid who's a 16 year old freshman (ie regrade).

One is in the situation through no fault of their own. The other is specifically looking to exploit the system being the biggest kid on the team.

Yes but how do you differentiate between the two if making a system where those kids can compete.

Also no way to prove who’s exploiting the system by holding back for sports as parents can always attribute to various things such as emotional maturity or academically not being able to move ahead which are real life factors.

It’s either GY and everyone just goes with the grace and we have to deal with it or just stay with a one year period and some kids unfortunately will have to sit out.

Unless they decide to allow for U19 and U18 as part of club soccer.

What are you talking about? Theres a very easy way to determine who's cheating and who's not.

ALL school districts in America start on after or slightly before 9/1. 90% of the school districts in America that start before 9/1 start within 30 days before 9/1. The rest start in July and most are things like July 31st.

These are the trapped players.

Everyone born +61 or +180 or +900 are regrades looking to play down to exploit being older and playing against younger competition.

GY is fine if you do it the SY+60 way. Just keep the cheaters out and everyone is happy.

Is ECNL going to ask every kid what school district they are from and look for their cut offs? You can be from a state like California has a bunch of districts that are not all the same.

No, players just provide a birth cert that proves age and proof of grade enrolled.

That wouldn’t work? Because how do you prove school cut off. Would be steps I doubt ECNL would want to deal with.

Why do you need to prove school cut off? That's a condition no one is talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the higher leagues ECNL Mlsn ga need to have the same cutoff as the pipeline or chaos and they risk losing business without being able to move kids up and down year to year

Actually its in leagues best interest to have wacky cutoff dates that are different from other teams. This is because it won't allow teams from different leagues to play each other in tournaments. They will be forced to only play at events run by the league.

Huh, how does this even make sense? Clubs hosting tournaments want fewer teams to be able to play in their tournaments? These money grubbing clubs want to leave dollars on the table? I don't buy that one.

ECNL/MLSN/GA don’t care about clubs making money they care about making money. Having a league with its own unique cut offs is easier to isolate their teams to attend private league showcases.

How does anyone make more money when you shrink your player pool? That isn't logical

Logical to the SY+ guy who wants a league to have a good cutoff for his own.

Are you really this dense? Or just a troll?

SY+60 = a 9/1 cutoff and 60 days before if players can prove grade enrolled and age. It completely gets rid of trapped players. Also as a bonus it doesnt allow players to regrade down for wins.

It's just SY with a 9/1 cutoff and a specific expemtion for addressing trapped players that still exist with a single cutoff date.

Another way to think about SY+60 is GY without the regrades.

There are always going to be kids who get "held back" in their early years of education - regardless of their birthdate. And in states with an 8/1 enrollment date for kindergarten, it's normal for parents of May / June birthdays to hold their kids back. So even with a SY+60 (meaning July 1), you're still going to have trapped players. The only way to get rid of trapped players is to go fully GY.

I would say theres a different between kids who are in a grade because their school district started a couple of months before 9/1 and a kid who's a 16 year old freshman (ie regrade).

One is in the situation through no fault of their own. The other is specifically looking to exploit the system being the biggest kid on the team.

Yes but how do you differentiate between the two if making a system where those kids can compete.

Also no way to prove who’s exploiting the system by holding back for sports as parents can always attribute to various things such as emotional maturity or academically not being able to move ahead which are real life factors.

It’s either GY and everyone just goes with the grace and we have to deal with it or just stay with a one year period and some kids unfortunately will have to sit out.

Unless they decide to allow for U19 and U18 as part of club soccer.

What are you talking about? Theres a very easy way to determine who's cheating and who's not.

ALL school districts in America start on after or slightly before 9/1. 90% of the school districts in America that start before 9/1 start within 30 days before 9/1. The rest start in July and most are things like July 31st.

These are the trapped players.

Everyone born +61 or +180 or +900 are regrades looking to play down to exploit being older and playing against younger competition.

GY is fine if you do it the SY+60 way. Just keep the cheaters out and everyone is happy.

Is ECNL going to ask every kid what school district they are from and look for their cut offs? You can be from a state like California has a bunch of districts that are not all the same.

No, players just provide a birth cert that proves age and proof of grade enrolled.

That wouldn’t work? Because how do you prove school cut off. Would be steps I doubt ECNL would want to deal with.

Why do you need to prove school cut off? That's a condition no one is talking about.

It's not needed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid was home schooled we used May 1st.


Now what?

How do you police?

May isn't 60 days from 9/1 = disqualified.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A GA announcement tomorrow (either way)will guaranteed get us to 1000 by the weekend.

What are they announcing tomorrow?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid was home schooled we used May 1st.


Now what?

How do you police?

I think you cracked the code.

To get around SY+60 all paretns would need to do is say that their kid is homeschooled and their start date is 7/15. However the kid would still need to be born between 7/1 and 9/1.

Regrades born between 7/1 and 9/1 would also be able to sneak into SY+60

So kind of a loophole but 2 months of potential regrades isn't that much of a tradeoff for no trapped players.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A GA announcement tomorrow (either way)will guaranteed get us to 1000 by the weekend.

What are they announcing tomorrow?

School year + two lunar months
Or
Remaining birth year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A GA announcement tomorrow (either way)will guaranteed get us to 1000 by the weekend.

What are they announcing tomorrow?

School year + two lunar months
Or
Remaining birth year

So you’ve got no clue?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the higher leagues ECNL Mlsn ga need to have the same cutoff as the pipeline or chaos and they risk losing business without being able to move kids up and down year to year

Actually its in leagues best interest to have wacky cutoff dates that are different from other teams. This is because it won't allow teams from different leagues to play each other in tournaments. They will be forced to only play at events run by the league.

Huh, how does this even make sense? Clubs hosting tournaments want fewer teams to be able to play in their tournaments? These money grubbing clubs want to leave dollars on the table? I don't buy that one.

ECNL/MLSN/GA don’t care about clubs making money they care about making money. Having a league with its own unique cut offs is easier to isolate their teams to attend private league showcases.

How does anyone make more money when you shrink your player pool? That isn't logical

Logical to the SY+ guy who wants a league to have a good cutoff for his own.

Are you really this dense? Or just a troll?

SY+60 = a 9/1 cutoff and 60 days before if players can prove grade enrolled and age. It completely gets rid of trapped players. Also as a bonus it doesnt allow players to regrade down for wins.

It's just SY with a 9/1 cutoff and a specific expemtion for addressing trapped players that still exist with a single cutoff date.

Another way to think about SY+60 is GY without the regrades.

There are always going to be kids who get "held back" in their early years of education - regardless of their birthdate. And in states with an 8/1 enrollment date for kindergarten, it's normal for parents of May / June birthdays to hold their kids back. So even with a SY+60 (meaning July 1), you're still going to have trapped players. The only way to get rid of trapped players is to go fully GY.

I would say theres a different between kids who are in a grade because their school district started a couple of months before 9/1 and a kid who's a 16 year old freshman (ie regrade).

One is in the situation through no fault of their own. The other is specifically looking to exploit the system being the biggest kid on the team.

Yes but how do you differentiate between the two if making a system where those kids can compete.

Also no way to prove who’s exploiting the system by holding back for sports as parents can always attribute to various things such as emotional maturity or academically not being able to move ahead which are real life factors.

It’s either GY and everyone just goes with the grace and we have to deal with it or just stay with a one year period and some kids unfortunately will have to sit out.

Unless they decide to allow for U19 and U18 as part of club soccer.

What are you talking about? Theres a very easy way to determine who's cheating and who's not.

ALL school districts in America start on after or slightly before 9/1. 90% of the school districts in America that start before 9/1 start within 30 days before 9/1. The rest start in July and most are things like July 31st.

These are the trapped players.

Everyone born +61 or +180 or +900 are regrades looking to play down to exploit being older and playing against younger competition.

GY is fine if you do it the SY+60 way. Just keep the cheaters out and everyone is happy.

Is ECNL going to ask every kid what school district they are from and look for their cut offs? You can be from a state like California has a bunch of districts that are not all the same.

No, players just provide a birth cert that proves age and proof of grade enrolled.

That wouldn’t work? Because how do you prove school cut off. Would be steps I doubt ECNL would want to deal with.

Why do you need to prove school cut off? That's a condition no one is talking about.

Then we would just use grad year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the higher leagues ECNL Mlsn ga need to have the same cutoff as the pipeline or chaos and they risk losing business without being able to move kids up and down year to year

Actually its in leagues best interest to have wacky cutoff dates that are different from other teams. This is because it won't allow teams from different leagues to play each other in tournaments. They will be forced to only play at events run by the league.

Huh, how does this even make sense? Clubs hosting tournaments want fewer teams to be able to play in their tournaments? These money grubbing clubs want to leave dollars on the table? I don't buy that one.

ECNL/MLSN/GA don’t care about clubs making money they care about making money. Having a league with its own unique cut offs is easier to isolate their teams to attend private league showcases.

How does anyone make more money when you shrink your player pool? That isn't logical

Logical to the SY+ guy who wants a league to have a good cutoff for his own.

Are you really this dense? Or just a troll?

SY+60 = a 9/1 cutoff and 60 days before if players can prove grade enrolled and age. It completely gets rid of trapped players. Also as a bonus it doesnt allow players to regrade down for wins.

It's just SY with a 9/1 cutoff and a specific expemtion for addressing trapped players that still exist with a single cutoff date.

Another way to think about SY+60 is GY without the regrades.

There are always going to be kids who get "held back" in their early years of education - regardless of their birthdate. And in states with an 8/1 enrollment date for kindergarten, it's normal for parents of May / June birthdays to hold their kids back. So even with a SY+60 (meaning July 1), you're still going to have trapped players. The only way to get rid of trapped players is to go fully GY.

I would say theres a different between kids who are in a grade because their school district started a couple of months before 9/1 and a kid who's a 16 year old freshman (ie regrade).

One is in the situation through no fault of their own. The other is specifically looking to exploit the system being the biggest kid on the team.

Yes but how do you differentiate between the two if making a system where those kids can compete.

Also no way to prove who’s exploiting the system by holding back for sports as parents can always attribute to various things such as emotional maturity or academically not being able to move ahead which are real life factors.

It’s either GY and everyone just goes with the grace and we have to deal with it or just stay with a one year period and some kids unfortunately will have to sit out.

Unless they decide to allow for U19 and U18 as part of club soccer.

What are you talking about? Theres a very easy way to determine who's cheating and who's not.

ALL school districts in America start on after or slightly before 9/1. 90% of the school districts in America that start before 9/1 start within 30 days before 9/1. The rest start in July and most are things like July 31st.

These are the trapped players.

Everyone born +61 or +180 or +900 are regrades looking to play down to exploit being older and playing against younger competition.

GY is fine if you do it the SY+60 way. Just keep the cheaters out and everyone is happy.

Is ECNL going to ask every kid what school district they are from and look for their cut offs? You can be from a state like California has a bunch of districts that are not all the same.

No, players just provide a birth cert that proves age and proof of grade enrolled.

That wouldn’t work? Because how do you prove school cut off. Would be steps I doubt ECNL would want to deal with.

Why do you need to prove school cut off? That's a condition no one is talking about.

Then we would just use grad year?

What are you taking about? Are you all just trying to be clever and failing miserably or just this stupid. No having a condition of having a birthday between 7/1-9/1 AND being in the same grade year as the kids 9/1-8/31 slightly younger than you, you can play in that group. This only happens when you meet BOTH conditions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the higher leagues ECNL Mlsn ga need to have the same cutoff as the pipeline or chaos and they risk losing business without being able to move kids up and down year to year

Actually its in leagues best interest to have wacky cutoff dates that are different from other teams. This is because it won't allow teams from different leagues to play each other in tournaments. They will be forced to only play at events run by the league.

Huh, how does this even make sense? Clubs hosting tournaments want fewer teams to be able to play in their tournaments? These money grubbing clubs want to leave dollars on the table? I don't buy that one.

ECNL/MLSN/GA don’t care about clubs making money they care about making money. Having a league with its own unique cut offs is easier to isolate their teams to attend private league showcases.

How does anyone make more money when you shrink your player pool? That isn't logical

Logical to the SY+ guy who wants a league to have a good cutoff for his own.

Are you really this dense? Or just a troll?

SY+60 = a 9/1 cutoff and 60 days before if players can prove grade enrolled and age. It completely gets rid of trapped players. Also as a bonus it doesnt allow players to regrade down for wins.

It's just SY with a 9/1 cutoff and a specific expemtion for addressing trapped players that still exist with a single cutoff date.

Another way to think about SY+60 is GY without the regrades.

There are always going to be kids who get "held back" in their early years of education - regardless of their birthdate. And in states with an 8/1 enrollment date for kindergarten, it's normal for parents of May / June birthdays to hold their kids back. So even with a SY+60 (meaning July 1), you're still going to have trapped players. The only way to get rid of trapped players is to go fully GY.

I would say theres a different between kids who are in a grade because their school district started a couple of months before 9/1 and a kid who's a 16 year old freshman (ie regrade).

One is in the situation through no fault of their own. The other is specifically looking to exploit the system being the biggest kid on the team.

Yes but how do you differentiate between the two if making a system where those kids can compete.

Also no way to prove who’s exploiting the system by holding back for sports as parents can always attribute to various things such as emotional maturity or academically not being able to move ahead which are real life factors.

It’s either GY and everyone just goes with the grace and we have to deal with it or just stay with a one year period and some kids unfortunately will have to sit out.

Unless they decide to allow for U19 and U18 as part of club soccer.

What are you talking about? Theres a very easy way to determine who's cheating and who's not.

ALL school districts in America start on after or slightly before 9/1. 90% of the school districts in America that start before 9/1 start within 30 days before 9/1. The rest start in July and most are things like July 31st.

These are the trapped players.

Everyone born +61 or +180 or +900 are regrades looking to play down to exploit being older and playing against younger competition.

GY is fine if you do it the SY+60 way. Just keep the cheaters out and everyone is happy.

Is ECNL going to ask every kid what school district they are from and look for their cut offs? You can be from a state like California has a bunch of districts that are not all the same.

No, players just provide a birth cert that proves age and proof of grade enrolled.

That wouldn’t work? Because how do you prove school cut off. Would be steps I doubt ECNL would want to deal with.

Why do you need to prove school cut off? That's a condition no one is talking about.

Then we would just use grad year?

What are you taking about? Are you all just trying to be clever and failing miserably or just this stupid. No having a condition of having a birthday between 7/1-9/1 AND being in the same grade year as the kids 9/1-8/31 slightly younger than you, you can play in that group. This only happens when you meet BOTH conditions.

Some people are JPD

[Anonymous]

This is too complicated, wouldn’t it be easier and more concise if the just grouped all kids by the year they were born?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of it this way....

Under SY theres going to be a group of trapped players who leagues know are trapped from the day they start playing at age 3.

They know that without a doubt certain trapped players wont get recruited in the right age group because of when the school disteict started and when they were born.

You dont think the paretns of ALL the age groups with trapped players wont complain as a group to leagues? They're all in the same boat under SY.

Think of this way....

September to December birthdays were "trapped" for 10 years with kids in the grade up under the BY system. 10 years is how long it took for that to be fixed.

In another 10 years, all of the problems you mention could potentially be fixed. Not bad.

Maybe or just fix it now.

Maybe USYS and US Club Soccer will do that. Doesn't hurt to ask. And it doesn't help to keep asking for a change on an anonymous message board.

Unfortunately most people dont understand the inner workings of youth soccer leagues. So yes, it is important to explain it over and over again.

Also in this situation BY SY GY theres multiple ways things could go even if a single grouping type is defined. The people that think switching to SY will some all the issues are wrong. It's just a starting point for more issues.

There ALWAYS be issues, even if you get SY+60, especially from the parents of the youngest kids in the 14-month window. How about this SY+60 man, we should have 2 teams (older/younger per school year) with 6 month windows for each grade +30?

That's kind of weird.

All your doing is breaking things out in two 7 month groupings instead of one 14 month grouping. Also theres no driver for the second +30.

You're probably trying to address RAE which unfortunately is impossible if the goal is to align groupings with grade in school.

But that's the beauty of it -- it's STILL the same grade AND addresses RAE!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is too complicated, wouldn’t it be easier and more concise if the just grouped all kids by the year they were born?

It's on the US soccer site they are creating a tool to use depending on the cut off chosen. Clearly our education is so bad we can't even do math when it is a 12 month window. Add in any nuance and we are doomed.