Options for opposing Connecticut Avenue changes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a commuter from MD so you can hate on me, but in our newly hybrid world, I will come into my DC office much less when these changes go into effect. I will spend a lot less money in DC than I have over the past 20yrs. And I will be driving all over DC neighborhoods when I do have to drive downtown. Especially if Beach Drive remains closed. I'm sure the 10 families and 20 Lance Armstrong wanna-bes who use the bikes lanes will be super happy, but having traversed this route over decades, I can assure you that there will be total gridlock and more accidents.

I live on a busy street in MD that gets a lot of NIH commuter traffic, so I understand why residents want to find ways to incentivize options other than car travel. But realistically all the bike lane plan will accomplish is diverting traffic to neighborhood streets, creating huge traffic jams, and reducing interest in working in downtown offices. I know the NWDC crowd thinks that's awesome, but the people who run small businesses and their employees may be less enamored of a city leadership that is actively encouraging smaller numbers of daily visitors.

Maybe you should take this energy and use it to advocate for traffic calming and transit in MoCo. It’s pretty hellish there, and one reason that I am likely staying in DC instead of moving to MoCo. In fact, the Ct Ave project is specifically one reason I might stay.

PS: you can drive to a metro station and metro in to DC. And no, you’re not going to be driving on side streets deep with Cleveland Park. That’s not actually how traffic works.

It's from Calvert Street to Chevy Chase Circle, not just Cleveland Park. There are a lot of side streets along that route and yes that is exactly how traffic works. If there's congestion then an alternate route is found.

Please read the traffic study. Traffic is largely REDUCED on ew side streets and INCREASED on other
major NS routes. https://ddot.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/ddot/page_content/attachments/02_Conn%20Ave_Public%20Meeting_LR%232-Traff-Parking_FINAL_04012021.pdf. On EW side street where it does increase, the increase is something like 15% which will likely not even be noticeable.

And if you care so much, take the metro.

I did and I noticed a few things. It claims there will be a 1000% increase in bike commuters and that 7,000 cars will disappear. It used pandemic traffic numbers as its base. It looked at what happens if more people than anticipated use bikes but not what happens if less people use them. It says traffic will be diverted to GW Parkway and Georgia but not 16th, Reno, and Beach (the most logical alternative routes) let alone how people would get to Reno and Beach (ie: side streets). It is obvious that the study was done with an end goal in mind and was massaged accordingly.

False. The traffic numbers are from 2019.

Try again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a commuter from MD so you can hate on me, but in our newly hybrid world, I will come into my DC office much less when these changes go into effect. I will spend a lot less money in DC than I have over the past 20yrs. And I will be driving all over DC neighborhoods when I do have to drive downtown. Especially if Beach Drive remains closed. I'm sure the 10 families and 20 Lance Armstrong wanna-bes who use the bikes lanes will be super happy, but having traversed this route over decades, I can assure you that there will be total gridlock and more accidents.

I live on a busy street in MD that gets a lot of NIH commuter traffic, so I understand why residents want to find ways to incentivize options other than car travel. But realistically all the bike lane plan will accomplish is diverting traffic to neighborhood streets, creating huge traffic jams, and reducing interest in working in downtown offices. I know the NWDC crowd thinks that's awesome, but the people who run small businesses and their employees may be less enamored of a city leadership that is actively encouraging smaller numbers of daily visitors.

Maybe you should take this energy and use it to advocate for traffic calming and transit in MoCo. It’s pretty hellish there, and one reason that I am likely staying in DC instead of moving to MoCo. In fact, the Ct Ave project is specifically one reason I might stay.

PS: you can drive to a metro station and metro in to DC. And no, you’re not going to be driving on side streets deep with Cleveland Park. That’s not actually how traffic works.

It's from Calvert Street to Chevy Chase Circle, not just Cleveland Park. There are a lot of side streets along that route and yes that is exactly how traffic works. If there's congestion then an alternate route is found.

Please read the traffic study. Traffic is largely REDUCED on ew side streets and INCREASED on other
major NS routes. https://ddot.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/ddot/page_content/attachments/02_Conn%20Ave_Public%20Meeting_LR%232-Traff-Parking_FINAL_04012021.pdf. On EW side street where it does increase, the increase is something like 15% which will likely not even be noticeable.

And if you care so much, take the metro.

I did and I noticed a few things. It claims there will be a 1000% increase in bike commuters and that 7,000 cars will disappear. It used pandemic traffic numbers as its base. It looked at what happens if more people than anticipated use bikes but not what happens if less people use them. It says traffic will be diverted to GW Parkway and Georgia but not 16th, Reno, and Beach (the most logical alternative routes) let alone how people would get to Reno and Beach (ie: side streets). It is obvious that the study was done with an end goal in mind and was massaged accordingly.

False. The traffic numbers are from 2019.

Try again.

Look closer. But once again, YOU seem to know an awful lot about the ins and outs of this. You even know how many traffic engineers and what their specific roles are. You also have a very strong opinion on this and have exclusively used advocacy rhetoric. What exactly has your role been in the formulation of this plan?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a commuter from MD so you can hate on me, but in our newly hybrid world, I will come into my DC office much less when these changes go into effect. I will spend a lot less money in DC than I have over the past 20yrs. And I will be driving all over DC neighborhoods when I do have to drive downtown. Especially if Beach Drive remains closed. I'm sure the 10 families and 20 Lance Armstrong wanna-bes who use the bikes lanes will be super happy, but having traversed this route over decades, I can assure you that there will be total gridlock and more accidents.

I live on a busy street in MD that gets a lot of NIH commuter traffic, so I understand why residents want to find ways to incentivize options other than car travel. But realistically all the bike lane plan will accomplish is diverting traffic to neighborhood streets, creating huge traffic jams, and reducing interest in working in downtown offices. I know the NWDC crowd thinks that's awesome, but the people who run small businesses and their employees may be less enamored of a city leadership that is actively encouraging smaller numbers of daily visitors.

Maybe you should take this energy and use it to advocate for traffic calming and transit in MoCo. It’s pretty hellish there, and one reason that I am likely staying in DC instead of moving to MoCo. In fact, the Ct Ave project is specifically one reason I might stay.

PS: you can drive to a metro station and metro in to DC. And no, you’re not going to be driving on side streets deep with Cleveland Park. That’s not actually how traffic works.

It's from Calvert Street to Chevy Chase Circle, not just Cleveland Park. There are a lot of side streets along that route and yes that is exactly how traffic works. If there's congestion then an alternate route is found.

Please read the traffic study. Traffic is largely REDUCED on ew side streets and INCREASED on other
major NS routes. https://ddot.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/ddot/page_content/attachments/02_Conn%20Ave_Public%20Meeting_LR%232-Traff-Parking_FINAL_04012021.pdf. On EW side street where it does increase, the increase is something like 15% which will likely not even be noticeable.

And if you care so much, take the metro.

I did and I noticed a few things. It claims there will be a 1000% increase in bike commuters and that 7,000 cars will disappear. It used pandemic traffic numbers as its base. It looked at what happens if more people than anticipated use bikes but not what happens if less people use them. It says traffic will be diverted to GW Parkway and Georgia but not 16th, Reno, and Beach (the most logical alternative routes) let alone how people would get to Reno and Beach (ie: side streets). It is obvious that the study was done with an end goal in mind and was massaged accordingly.

False. The traffic numbers are from 2019.

Try again.

Look closer. But once again, YOU seem to know an awful lot about the ins and outs of this. You even know how many traffic engineers and what their specific roles are. You also have a very strong opinion on this and have exclusively used advocacy rhetoric. What exactly has your role been in the formulation of this plan?

Huh? The study for traffic numbers was done in 2019. That is a fact. I know who the lead DDOT person is, because he led all the meetings and had a very public role in the multi-year process. Beyond that, I have no idea what you are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a commuter from MD so you can hate on me, but in our newly hybrid world, I will come into my DC office much less when these changes go into effect. I will spend a lot less money in DC than I have over the past 20yrs. And I will be driving all over DC neighborhoods when I do have to drive downtown. Especially if Beach Drive remains closed. I'm sure the 10 families and 20 Lance Armstrong wanna-bes who use the bikes lanes will be super happy, but having traversed this route over decades, I can assure you that there will be total gridlock and more accidents.

I live on a busy street in MD that gets a lot of NIH commuter traffic, so I understand why residents want to find ways to incentivize options other than car travel. But realistically all the bike lane plan will accomplish is diverting traffic to neighborhood streets, creating huge traffic jams, and reducing interest in working in downtown offices. I know the NWDC crowd thinks that's awesome, but the people who run small businesses and their employees may be less enamored of a city leadership that is actively encouraging smaller numbers of daily visitors.

The quiet majority in DC agrees with you. Most of my neighbors had no idea this was the plan. We struggled these past two years to educate our kids and keep our families safe. We sort of knew there was an on-going discussion about safety on Connecticut Ave, but most thought it was about the reversible lanes and general pedestrian safety. Both important topics. But, it’s fairly shocking what a small, loud group of progressives activists were able to push through in plain sight. Let this be a warning to your neighbors.

BS. The only people I have spoken to who agree with you are over 70 and have lived in their houses for over 30 years. The overwhelming majority of the people who actually live here, cannot understand your 1950's era mentality. Most people want a safer and more livable Avenue,. Most people want options other than cars. Most people understand climate change is real. Most people understand that our cities are evolving away from car oriented transportation. The leadership in our ANCs, the Council and the Mayor are implementing this. THEY are our elected officials. THEY were voted in on a platform of safety, sustainability and liberal to progressive politics.

It is really just the very vocal deep minority that is expressing a pro-car, anti-safety agenda.

We had a neighbor speak out against this plan and the bike lobby doxed them to their employer. Another neighbor had their lawn sign stolen. It was pretty shocking.

Not a stolen lawn sign!! That's horrific. Have you informed the FBI?

And what exactly does doxxing someone to they're employer do when all they've done is voiced opposition to a bike lane? Do they work in a bike job? Like, I can't imagine a random company giving a crap.

You're actually defending that behavior?

I think they are saying PP is lying. Nobody got doxxed for being against bike lanes.

That's not what they said. They said it couldn't cause any harm so what's the big deal.

Can we agree that doxxing somebody because they oppose closing two lanes of Connecticut Avenue is bad?

it’s not bad because it did not actually happen. and even if it did happen - no employer would care because it would be so stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a commuter from MD so you can hate on me, but in our newly hybrid world, I will come into my DC office much less when these changes go into effect. I will spend a lot less money in DC than I have over the past 20yrs. And I will be driving all over DC neighborhoods when I do have to drive downtown. Especially if Beach Drive remains closed. I'm sure the 10 families and 20 Lance Armstrong wanna-bes who use the bikes lanes will be super happy, but having traversed this route over decades, I can assure you that there will be total gridlock and more accidents.

I live on a busy street in MD that gets a lot of NIH commuter traffic, so I understand why residents want to find ways to incentivize options other than car travel. But realistically all the bike lane plan will accomplish is diverting traffic to neighborhood streets, creating huge traffic jams, and reducing interest in working in downtown offices. I know the NWDC crowd thinks that's awesome, but the people who run small businesses and their employees may be less enamored of a city leadership that is actively encouraging smaller numbers of daily visitors.

Maybe you should take this energy and use it to advocate for traffic calming and transit in MoCo. It’s pretty hellish there, and one reason that I am likely staying in DC instead of moving to MoCo. In fact, the Ct Ave project is specifically one reason I might stay.

PS: you can drive to a metro station and metro in to DC. And no, you’re not going to be driving on side streets deep with Cleveland Park. That’s not actually how traffic works.

It's from Calvert Street to Chevy Chase Circle, not just Cleveland Park. There are a lot of side streets along that route and yes that is exactly how traffic works. If there's congestion then an alternate route is found.

Please read the traffic study. Traffic is largely REDUCED on ew side streets and INCREASED on other
major NS routes. https://ddot.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/ddot/page_content/attachments/02_Conn%20Ave_Public%20Meeting_LR%232-Traff-Parking_FINAL_04012021.pdf. On EW side street where it does increase, the increase is something like 15% which will likely not even be noticeable.

And if you care so much, take the metro.

I did and I noticed a few things. It claims there will be a 1000% increase in bike commuters and that 7,000 cars will disappear. It used pandemic traffic numbers as its base. It looked at what happens if more people than anticipated use bikes but not what happens if less people use them. It says traffic will be diverted to GW Parkway and Georgia but not 16th, Reno, and Beach (the most logical alternative routes) let alone how people would get to Reno and Beach (ie: side streets). It is obvious that the study was done with an end goal in mind and was massaged accordingly.

Oh great, so your view is that DDOT is engaged in a conspiracy theory to force bike lanes on the city. Makes sense!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a commuter from MD so you can hate on me, but in our newly hybrid world, I will come into my DC office much less when these changes go into effect. I will spend a lot less money in DC than I have over the past 20yrs. And I will be driving all over DC neighborhoods when I do have to drive downtown. Especially if Beach Drive remains closed. I'm sure the 10 families and 20 Lance Armstrong wanna-bes who use the bikes lanes will be super happy, but having traversed this route over decades, I can assure you that there will be total gridlock and more accidents.

I live on a busy street in MD that gets a lot of NIH commuter traffic, so I understand why residents want to find ways to incentivize options other than car travel. But realistically all the bike lane plan will accomplish is diverting traffic to neighborhood streets, creating huge traffic jams, and reducing interest in working in downtown offices. I know the NWDC crowd thinks that's awesome, but the people who run small businesses and their employees may be less enamored of a city leadership that is actively encouraging smaller numbers of daily visitors.

Maybe you should take this energy and use it to advocate for traffic calming and transit in MoCo. It’s pretty hellish there, and one reason that I am likely staying in DC instead of moving to MoCo. In fact, the Ct Ave project is specifically one reason I might stay.

PS: you can drive to a metro station and metro in to DC. And no, you’re not going to be driving on side streets deep with Cleveland Park. That’s not actually how traffic works.

It's from Calvert Street to Chevy Chase Circle, not just Cleveland Park. There are a lot of side streets along that route and yes that is exactly how traffic works. If there's congestion then an alternate route is found.

Please read the traffic study. Traffic is largely REDUCED on ew side streets and INCREASED on other
major NS routes. https://ddot.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/ddot/page_content/attachments/02_Conn%20Ave_Public%20Meeting_LR%232-Traff-Parking_FINAL_04012021.pdf. On EW side street where it does increase, the increase is something like 15% which will likely not even be noticeable.

And if you care so much, take the metro.

I did and I noticed a few things. It claims there will be a 1000% increase in bike commuters and that 7,000 cars will disappear. It used pandemic traffic numbers as its base. It looked at what happens if more people than anticipated use bikes but not what happens if less people use them. It says traffic will be diverted to GW Parkway and Georgia but not 16th, Reno, and Beach (the most logical alternative routes) let alone how people would get to Reno and Beach (ie: side streets). It is obvious that the study was done with an end goal in mind and was massaged accordingly.

False. The traffic numbers are from 2019.

Try again.

I’m not sure there is a credible urban planner anywhere on the planet that would use pre COVID traffic statistics to make post-pandemic regional transportation infrastructure decisions. The world has fundamentally changed. How, when, and where people work and live has changed. Can’t we at least get updated transportation studies so we can make an informed decisions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a commuter from MD so you can hate on me, but in our newly hybrid world, I will come into my DC office much less when these changes go into effect. I will spend a lot less money in DC than I have over the past 20yrs. And I will be driving all over DC neighborhoods when I do have to drive downtown. Especially if Beach Drive remains closed. I'm sure the 10 families and 20 Lance Armstrong wanna-bes who use the bikes lanes will be super happy, but having traversed this route over decades, I can assure you that there will be total gridlock and more accidents.

I live on a busy street in MD that gets a lot of NIH commuter traffic, so I understand why residents want to find ways to incentivize options other than car travel. But realistically all the bike lane plan will accomplish is diverting traffic to neighborhood streets, creating huge traffic jams, and reducing interest in working in downtown offices. I know the NWDC crowd thinks that's awesome, but the people who run small businesses and their employees may be less enamored of a city leadership that is actively encouraging smaller numbers of daily visitors.

Maybe you should take this energy and use it to advocate for traffic calming and transit in MoCo. It’s pretty hellish there, and one reason that I am likely staying in DC instead of moving to MoCo. In fact, the Ct Ave project is specifically one reason I might stay.

PS: you can drive to a metro station and metro in to DC. And no, you’re not going to be driving on side streets deep with Cleveland Park. That’s not actually how traffic works.

It's from Calvert Street to Chevy Chase Circle, not just Cleveland Park. There are a lot of side streets along that route and yes that is exactly how traffic works. If there's congestion then an alternate route is found.

Please read the traffic study. Traffic is largely REDUCED on ew side streets and INCREASED on other
major NS routes. https://ddot.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/ddot/page_content/attachments/02_Conn%20Ave_Public%20Meeting_LR%232-Traff-Parking_FINAL_04012021.pdf. On EW side street where it does increase, the increase is something like 15% which will likely not even be noticeable.

And if you care so much, take the metro.

I did and I noticed a few things. It claims there will be a 1000% increase in bike commuters and that 7,000 cars will disappear. It used pandemic traffic numbers as its base. It looked at what happens if more people than anticipated use bikes but not what happens if less people use them. It says traffic will be diverted to GW Parkway and Georgia but not 16th, Reno, and Beach (the most logical alternative routes) let alone how people would get to Reno and Beach (ie: side streets). It is obvious that the study was done with an end goal in mind and was massaged accordingly.

False. The traffic numbers are from 2019.

Try again.

I’m not sure there is a credible urban planner anywhere on the planet that would use pre COVID traffic statistics to make post-pandemic regional transportation infrastructure decisions. The world has fundamentally changed. How, when, and where people work and live has changed. Can’t we at least get updated transportation studies so we can make an informed decisions?

If anything, that makes the 2019 numbers more conservative since fewer people are going downtown and more people are working from home and will want to run errands in their neighborhoods during the day. So you are basically saying that the bike lanes are a good thing to help support businesses in a post-COVID world.

I agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a commuter from MD so you can hate on me, but in our newly hybrid world, I will come into my DC office much less when these changes go into effect. I will spend a lot less money in DC than I have over the past 20yrs. And I will be driving all over DC neighborhoods when I do have to drive downtown. Especially if Beach Drive remains closed. I'm sure the 10 families and 20 Lance Armstrong wanna-bes who use the bikes lanes will be super happy, but having traversed this route over decades, I can assure you that there will be total gridlock and more accidents.

I live on a busy street in MD that gets a lot of NIH commuter traffic, so I understand why residents want to find ways to incentivize options other than car travel. But realistically all the bike lane plan will accomplish is diverting traffic to neighborhood streets, creating huge traffic jams, and reducing interest in working in downtown offices. I know the NWDC crowd thinks that's awesome, but the people who run small businesses and their employees may be less enamored of a city leadership that is actively encouraging smaller numbers of daily visitors.

The quiet majority in DC agrees with you. Most of my neighbors had no idea this was the plan. We struggled these past two years to educate our kids and keep our families safe. We sort of knew there was an on-going discussion about safety on Connecticut Ave, but most thought it was about the reversible lanes and general pedestrian safety. Both important topics. But, it’s fairly shocking what a small, loud group of progressives activists were able to push through in plain sight. Let this be a warning to your neighbors.

BS. The only people I have spoken to who agree with you are over 70 and have lived in their houses for over 30 years. The overwhelming majority of the people who actually live here, cannot understand your 1950's era mentality. Most people want a safer and more livable Avenue,. Most people want options other than cars. Most people understand climate change is real. Most people understand that our cities are evolving away from car oriented transportation. The leadership in our ANCs, the Council and the Mayor are implementing this. THEY are our elected officials. THEY were voted in on a platform of safety, sustainability and liberal to progressive politics.

It is really just the very vocal deep minority that is expressing a pro-car, anti-safety agenda.

We had a neighbor speak out against this plan and the bike lobby doxed them to their employer. Another neighbor had their lawn sign stolen. It was pretty shocking.

Not a stolen lawn sign!! That's horrific. Have you informed the FBI?

And what exactly does doxxing someone to they're employer do when all they've done is voiced opposition to a bike lane? Do they work in a bike job? Like, I can't imagine a random company giving a crap.

You're actually defending that behavior?

I think they are saying PP is lying. Nobody got doxxed for being against bike lanes.

That's not what they said. They said it couldn't cause any harm so what's the big deal.

Can we agree that doxxing somebody because they oppose closing two lanes of Connecticut Avenue is bad?

it’s not bad because it did not actually happen. and even if it did happen - no employer would care because it would be so stupid.

Trying to intimidate people from public participation is pretty thuggish behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's in everyone's interest -- drivers, pedestrians, cyclists -- to have any much car traffic moving as efficiently as possible on major roads, ie any street named after a state. That's what they were designed for and that's where everyone expects there to be lots of traffic. When we force drivers to start cutting through neighborhoods on side streets because the main arteries are clogged, that's when we're asking for trouble.

It is also in everyone's interest to have roads where pedestrians, cyclists and drivers, can move about their business in a safe manner. When a road is designed such that someone operating a car can move fast enough that they overturn it, as happened on Connecticut Avenue earlier this month, that is problematic. I am not sure why anyone would defend the status quo, which is clearly unsafe.

We'd all be better off if the handful of dudes super into bikes would just take the subway.

If I want to go from Chevy Chase to Vace, the Metro isn't really going to help me.

You're in luck! It turns out there is also a city bus system!

It is faster for me to bike. I would just like to do it safely.

Call me crazy but the city shouldnt have to spend billions of dollars and screw up traffic for hundreds of thousands of people because you and a handful of other Bernie bros don't like the bus

PP either has a terrible grasp of numbers or a terrible grasp of the truth but DC does not spend billions on bike and pedestrian infrastructure - in fact it is less than 5% of DDOT's massive budget which is astonishing because most people in DC get around every day in some manner without using a vehicle.

Obviously the city doesnt spend billions in one year, but over the years? Yes, of course it has spend billions. We've had bike lanes in this city for almost 15 years.

No really DC has not spent billions.

I would be shocked if DC has even spent 50 million on bike lanes over the last 10 years.

DC doesn't even have 20 miles of protected bike lanes in the entire city.

Connecticut Avenue is estimated to cost about 8 million for 3 miles but that estimate includes a couple of hawk signals and some pedestrian islands and lots of design work. I'm pretty sure the CP streetscape improvement project is costing more by itself.

Most of the bike lanes we have in DC are just paint and some signs which is to say they are very inexpensive projects - as in like $10-$15000 for an entire project.

Just as an FYI DDOTs FY 2023 capital budget is $650 million, most of which goes towards repaving roads. DDOT has over 200 full time traffic engineers but just 2 staffers who work on bike lanes full time so on the personnel side as well spending on roads just swamps what is spent on bikes.

Bike lanes actually save DDOT money. Bikes create much less wear on the roads than vehicles do, which reduces the need for resurfacing and other maintenance. If bike lanes reduce vehicular traffic (as we know they do), then there is an added saving from less wear as a result of less vehicular traffic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a commuter from MD so you can hate on me, but in our newly hybrid world, I will come into my DC office much less when these changes go into effect. I will spend a lot less money in DC than I have over the past 20yrs. And I will be driving all over DC neighborhoods when I do have to drive downtown. Especially if Beach Drive remains closed. I'm sure the 10 families and 20 Lance Armstrong wanna-bes who use the bikes lanes will be super happy, but having traversed this route over decades, I can assure you that there will be total gridlock and more accidents.

I live on a busy street in MD that gets a lot of NIH commuter traffic, so I understand why residents want to find ways to incentivize options other than car travel. But realistically all the bike lane plan will accomplish is diverting traffic to neighborhood streets, creating huge traffic jams, and reducing interest in working in downtown offices. I know the NWDC crowd thinks that's awesome, but the people who run small businesses and their employees may be less enamored of a city leadership that is actively encouraging smaller numbers of daily visitors.

Maybe you should take this energy and use it to advocate for traffic calming and transit in MoCo. It’s pretty hellish there, and one reason that I am likely staying in DC instead of moving to MoCo. In fact, the Ct Ave project is specifically one reason I might stay.

PS: you can drive to a metro station and metro in to DC. And no, you’re not going to be driving on side streets deep with Cleveland Park. That’s not actually how traffic works.

It's from Calvert Street to Chevy Chase Circle, not just Cleveland Park. There are a lot of side streets along that route and yes that is exactly how traffic works. If there's congestion then an alternate route is found.

Please read the traffic study. Traffic is largely REDUCED on ew side streets and INCREASED on other
major NS routes. https://ddot.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/ddot/page_content/attachments/02_Conn%20Ave_Public%20Meeting_LR%232-Traff-Parking_FINAL_04012021.pdf. On EW side street where it does increase, the increase is something like 15% which will likely not even be noticeable.

And if you care so much, take the metro.

I did and I noticed a few things. It claims there will be a 1000% increase in bike commuters and that 7,000 cars will disappear. It used pandemic traffic numbers as its base. It looked at what happens if more people than anticipated use bikes but not what happens if less people use them. It says traffic will be diverted to GW Parkway and Georgia but not 16th, Reno, and Beach (the most logical alternative routes) let alone how people would get to Reno and Beach (ie: side streets). It is obvious that the study was done with an end goal in mind and was massaged accordingly.

False. The traffic numbers are from 2019.

Try again.

I’m not sure there is a credible urban planner anywhere on the planet that would use pre COVID traffic statistics to make post-pandemic regional transportation infrastructure decisions. The world has fundamentally changed. How, when, and where people work and live has changed. Can’t we at least get updated transportation studies so we can make an informed decisions?

If anything, that makes the 2019 numbers more conservative since fewer people are going downtown and more people are working from home and will want to run errands in their neighborhoods during the day. So you are basically saying that the bike lanes are a good thing to help support businesses in a post-COVID world.

I agree.

Ummm, no. Transit ridership is 50% lower. So traffic may be through the roof. Maybe we should find out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's in everyone's interest -- drivers, pedestrians, cyclists -- to have any much car traffic moving as efficiently as possible on major roads, ie any street named after a state. That's what they were designed for and that's where everyone expects there to be lots of traffic. When we force drivers to start cutting through neighborhoods on side streets because the main arteries are clogged, that's when we're asking for trouble.

It is also in everyone's interest to have roads where pedestrians, cyclists and drivers, can move about their business in a safe manner. When a road is designed such that someone operating a car can move fast enough that they overturn it, as happened on Connecticut Avenue earlier this month, that is problematic. I am not sure why anyone would defend the status quo, which is clearly unsafe.

We'd all be better off if the handful of dudes super into bikes would just take the subway.

If I want to go from Chevy Chase to Vace, the Metro isn't really going to help me.

You're in luck! It turns out there is also a city bus system!

It is faster for me to bike. I would just like to do it safely.

Call me crazy but the city shouldnt have to spend billions of dollars and screw up traffic for hundreds of thousands of people because you and a handful of other Bernie bros don't like the bus

PP either has a terrible grasp of numbers or a terrible grasp of the truth but DC does not spend billions on bike and pedestrian infrastructure - in fact it is less than 5% of DDOT's massive budget which is astonishing because most people in DC get around every day in some manner without using a vehicle.

Obviously the city doesnt spend billions in one year, but over the years? Yes, of course it has spend billions. We've had bike lanes in this city for almost 15 years.

No really DC has not spent billions.

I would be shocked if DC has even spent 50 million on bike lanes over the last 10 years.

DC doesn't even have 20 miles of protected bike lanes in the entire city.

Connecticut Avenue is estimated to cost about 8 million for 3 miles but that estimate includes a couple of hawk signals and some pedestrian islands and lots of design work. I'm pretty sure the CP streetscape improvement project is costing more by itself.

Most of the bike lanes we have in DC are just paint and some signs which is to say they are very inexpensive projects - as in like $10-$15000 for an entire project.

Just as an FYI DDOTs FY 2023 capital budget is $650 million, most of which goes towards repaving roads. DDOT has over 200 full time traffic engineers but just 2 staffers who work on bike lanes full time so on the personnel side as well spending on roads just swamps what is spent on bikes.

Bike lanes actually save DDOT money. Bikes create much less wear on the roads than vehicles do, which reduces the need for resurfacing and other maintenance. If bike lanes reduce vehicular traffic (as we know they do), then there is an added saving from less wear as a result of less vehicular traffic.

That’s not how road resurfacing projects work. These bike lanes will concentrate 33% more cars onto the two proposed traffic lanes. This will reduce the roadway lifespan by 30%. So it will require road closer, including bike lane closure, much more frequently.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm a commuter from MD so you can hate on me, but in our newly hybrid world, I will come into my DC office much less when these changes go into effect. I will spend a lot less money in DC than I have over the past 20yrs. And I will be driving all over DC neighborhoods when I do have to drive downtown. Especially if Beach Drive remains closed. I'm sure the 10 families and 20 Lance Armstrong wanna-bes who use the bikes lanes will be super happy, but having traversed this route over decades, I can assure you that there will be total gridlock and more accidents.

I live on a busy street in MD that gets a lot of NIH commuter traffic, so I understand why residents want to find ways to incentivize options other than car travel. But realistically all the bike lane plan will accomplish is diverting traffic to neighborhood streets, creating huge traffic jams, and reducing interest in working in downtown offices. I know the NWDC crowd thinks that's awesome, but the people who run small businesses and their employees may be less enamored of a city leadership that is actively encouraging smaller numbers of daily visitors.

Maybe you should take this energy and use it to advocate for traffic calming and transit in MoCo. It’s pretty hellish there, and one reason that I am likely staying in DC instead of moving to MoCo. In fact, the Ct Ave project is specifically one reason I might stay.

PS: you can drive to a metro station and metro in to DC. And no, you’re not going to be driving on side streets deep with Cleveland Park. That’s not actually how traffic works.

It's from Calvert Street to Chevy Chase Circle, not just Cleveland Park. There are a lot of side streets along that route and yes that is exactly how traffic works. If there's congestion then an alternate route is found.

Please read the traffic study. Traffic is largely REDUCED on ew side streets and INCREASED on other
major NS routes. https://ddot.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/ddot/page_content/attachments/02_Conn%20Ave_Public%20Meeting_LR%232-Traff-Parking_FINAL_04012021.pdf. On EW side street where it does increase, the increase is something like 15% which will likely not even be noticeable.

And if you care so much, take the metro.

I did and I noticed a few things. It claims there will be a 1000% increase in bike commuters and that 7,000 cars will disappear. It used pandemic traffic numbers as its base. It looked at what happens if more people than anticipated use bikes but not what happens if less people use them. It says traffic will be diverted to GW Parkway and Georgia but not 16th, Reno, and Beach (the most logical alternative routes) let alone how people would get to Reno and Beach (ie: side streets). It is obvious that the study was done with an end goal in mind and was massaged accordingly.

False. The traffic numbers are from 2019.

Try again.

I’m not sure there is a credible urban planner anywhere on the planet that would use pre COVID traffic statistics to make post-pandemic regional transportation infrastructure decisions. The world has fundamentally changed. How, when, and where people work and live has changed. Can’t we at least get updated transportation studies so we can make an informed decisions?

If anything, that makes the 2019 numbers more conservative since fewer people are going downtown and more people are working from home and will want to run errands in their neighborhoods during the day. So you are basically saying that the bike lanes are a good thing to help support businesses in a post-COVID world.

I agree.

Ummm, no. Transit ridership is 50% lower. So traffic may be through the roof. Maybe we should find out?

So you think post-COVID, there is more car traffic than pre-COVID?

There is NOTHING to support that assertion in any jurisdiction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Bike lanes actually save DDOT money. Bikes create much less wear on the roads than vehicles do, which reduces the need for resurfacing and other maintenance. If bike lanes reduce vehicular traffic (as we know they do), then there is an added saving from less wear as a result of less vehicular traffic.

Yes - this is the case. DC Taxpayers paid the bill for about two-thirds of the road projects in the city, only about one-third is actually funded by gas and tag taxes on cars. Yet cars and trucks are what destroy the roads they run on. A bike path will last far, far longer simply because there's no real weight for the vehicles riding on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Ummm, no. Transit ridership is 50% lower. So traffic may be through the roof. Maybe we should find out?

So you think post-COVID, there is more car traffic than pre-COVID?

There is NOTHING to support that assertion in any jurisdiction.

It doesn't matter. The original study was done in 2019. They did a refresh of it earlier this year to true and and measured what you are saying (traffic is a good bit better than where it was). DDOT said this and provided some data on it at their June meetings at UDC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a commuter from MD so you can hate on me, but in our newly hybrid world, I will come into my DC office much less when these changes go into effect. I will spend a lot less money in DC than I have over the past 20yrs. And I will be driving all over DC neighborhoods when I do have to drive downtown. Especially if Beach Drive remains closed. I'm sure the 10 families and 20 Lance Armstrong wanna-bes who use the bikes lanes will be super happy, but having traversed this route over decades, I can assure you that there will be total gridlock and more accidents.

I live on a busy street in MD that gets a lot of NIH commuter traffic, so I understand why residents want to find ways to incentivize options other than car travel. But realistically all the bike lane plan will accomplish is diverting traffic to neighborhood streets, creating huge traffic jams, and reducing interest in working in downtown offices. I know the NWDC crowd thinks that's awesome, but the people who run small businesses and their employees may be less enamored of a city leadership that is actively encouraging smaller numbers of daily visitors.

Maybe you should take this energy and use it to advocate for traffic calming and transit in MoCo. It’s pretty hellish there, and one reason that I am likely staying in DC instead of moving to MoCo. In fact, the Ct Ave project is specifically one reason I might stay.

PS: you can drive to a metro station and metro in to DC. And no, you’re not going to be driving on side streets deep with Cleveland Park. That’s not actually how traffic works.

It's from Calvert Street to Chevy Chase Circle, not just Cleveland Park. There are a lot of side streets along that route and yes that is exactly how traffic works. If there's congestion then an alternate route is found.

Please read the traffic study. Traffic is largely REDUCED on ew side streets and INCREASED on other
major NS routes. https://ddot.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/ddot/page_content/attachments/02_Conn%20Ave_Public%20Meeting_LR%232-Traff-Parking_FINAL_04012021.pdf. On EW side street where it does increase, the increase is something like 15% which will likely not even be noticeable.

And if you care so much, take the metro.

I did and I noticed a few things. It claims there will be a 1000% increase in bike commuters and that 7,000 cars will disappear. It used pandemic traffic numbers as its base. It looked at what happens if more people than anticipated use bikes but not what happens if less people use them. It says traffic will be diverted to GW Parkway and Georgia but not 16th, Reno, and Beach (the most logical alternative routes) let alone how people would get to Reno and Beach (ie: side streets). It is obvious that the study was done with an end goal in mind and was massaged accordingly.

False. The traffic numbers are from 2019.

Try again.

I’m not sure there is a credible urban planner anywhere on the planet that would use pre COVID traffic statistics to make post-pandemic regional transportation infrastructure decisions. The world has fundamentally changed. How, when, and where people work and live has changed. Can’t we at least get updated transportation studies so we can make an informed decisions?

If anything, that makes the 2019 numbers more conservative since fewer people are going downtown and more people are working from home and will want to run errands in their neighborhoods during the day. So you are basically saying that the bike lanes are a good thing to help support businesses in a post-COVID world.

I agree.

Ummm, no. Transit ridership is 50% lower. So traffic may be through the roof. Maybe we should find out?

So you think post-COVID, there is more car traffic than pre-COVID?

There is NOTHING to support that assertion in any jurisdiction.

This you? We need fresh so we don’t totally screw this up for a generation and kill uptown and downtown businesses along the way.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/09/16/hybrid-work-schedules-pandemic-commuting/