Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure, the Palestinians are between a rock and a hard place. Lots of people denounce what’s going on in the West Bank. Unfortunately, few people are going to see terrorism as the answer.

In fact, terrorism heavily contributed to how they got here. A major reason the Labor party fell out of power is due to the second intifada. The Labor party would have stifled these West Bank encroachments. The second intifada shifted Israel to the right, and Likud doesn’t care.

The west bank encroachments were illegal according to international law. So basically you are supporting a violation of international law.


Imagine how different our world would be right now if the hard right in Israel hadn't assassinated Rabin.

I'm not supporting the West Bank encroachment, but terrorism isn't the answer. The Palestinians needed to find a way to get the Israel left back in power. Fighting just made Israel shift further to right.

Probably, the best solution was to peacefully protest to garner attention and just endure the encroachment and the crackdowns. Then hope a dove eventually comes to power in Israel and try to work with him. Easier said then done, I know, but it's a more realistic path to peace than 10/7.

What makes Israel's actions again Gaza any different than terrorism? They’ve killed more people. Dismembered many more. Killed way more kids. One can say they were defending themselves but that exact what Hamas explains 10/7.

I agree peaceful protest is a better way but I think both sides need to do that.

Israel is a country and the IDF is their official army. They are not a terrorist group, by definition.

[Anonymous]

From the WP:

“ Rafah’s threadbare health network is collapsing when people there need it most.
The city’s largest hospital was shuttered two days ago, in a panic, after Israel ordered 100,000 Palestinians in southeastern Gaza to evacuate. Small clinics that accommodated hundreds of people a week closed as well, with staff members forced to flee the violence.
Bodies lay where they fell, in the “red zone” that the few ambulances available could not reach because of Israeli bombardment.”

What is a terrorist? From the dictionary = person who uses violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

I cannot see any other word for what Israel is inflicting now in Gaza other than terrorism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From the WP:

“ Rafah’s threadbare health network is collapsing when people there need it most.
The city’s largest hospital was shuttered two days ago, in a panic, after Israel ordered 100,000 Palestinians in southeastern Gaza to evacuate. Small clinics that accommodated hundreds of people a week closed as well, with staff members forced to flee the violence.
Bodies lay where they fell, in the “red zone” that the few ambulances available could not reach because of Israeli bombardment.”

What is a terrorist? From the dictionary = person who uses violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

I cannot see any other word for what Israel is inflicting now in Gaza other than terrorism.

Words have meaning. The word you are looking for is war. Israel is inflicting war on Gaza.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure, the Palestinians are between a rock and a hard place. Lots of people denounce what’s going on in the West Bank. Unfortunately, few people are going to see terrorism as the answer.

In fact, terrorism heavily contributed to how they got here. A major reason the Labor party fell out of power is due to the second intifada. The Labor party would have stifled these West Bank encroachments. The second intifada shifted Israel to the right, and Likud doesn’t care.

The west bank encroachments were illegal according to international law. So basically you are supporting a violation of international law.


Imagine how different our world would be right now if the hard right in Israel hadn't assassinated Rabin.

I'm not supporting the West Bank encroachment, but terrorism isn't the answer. The Palestinians needed to find a way to get the Israel left back in power. Fighting just made Israel shift further to right.

Probably, the best solution was to peacefully protest to garner attention and just endure the encroachment and the crackdowns. Then hope a dove eventually comes to power in Israel and try to work with him. Easier said then done, I know, but it's a more realistic path to peace than 10/7.

What makes Israel's actions again Gaza any different than terrorism? They’ve killed more people. Dismembered many more. Killed way more kids. One can say they were defending themselves but that exact what Hamas explains 10/7.

I agree peaceful protest is a better way but I think both sides need to do that.

Israel is a country and the IDF is their official army. They are not a terrorist group, by definition.

Yes, it is true that Israel a country. In your view is it ok that countries can inflict terrorist pain and suffering on others? I don’t think that’s right. In fact, I would argue that history shows when a country inflicts harm on others they are usually harmed in return in retaliation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the WP:

“ Rafah’s threadbare health network is collapsing when people there need it most.
The city’s largest hospital was shuttered two days ago, in a panic, after Israel ordered 100,000 Palestinians in southeastern Gaza to evacuate. Small clinics that accommodated hundreds of people a week closed as well, with staff members forced to flee the violence.
Bodies lay where they fell, in the “red zone” that the few ambulances available could not reach because of Israeli bombardment.”

What is a terrorist? From the dictionary = person who uses violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

I cannot see any other word for what Israel is inflicting now in Gaza other than terrorism.

Words have meaning. The word you are looking for is war. Israel is inflicting war on Gaza.

So killing in war is ok but killing in terrorism is not? In my moral compass a death = a death. It really doesn’t matter who pulled the trigger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the WP:

“ Rafah’s threadbare health network is collapsing when people there need it most.
The city’s largest hospital was shuttered two days ago, in a panic, after Israel ordered 100,000 Palestinians in southeastern Gaza to evacuate. Small clinics that accommodated hundreds of people a week closed as well, with staff members forced to flee the violence.
Bodies lay where they fell, in the “red zone” that the few ambulances available could not reach because of Israeli bombardment.”

What is a terrorist? From the dictionary = person who uses violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

I cannot see any other word for what Israel is inflicting now in Gaza other than terrorism.

Words have meaning. The word you are looking for is war. Israel is inflicting war on Gaza.

Wars are between armies. There is a war in Ukraine. In Gaza there is a holocaust.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure, the Palestinians are between a rock and a hard place. Lots of people denounce what’s going on in the West Bank. Unfortunately, few people are going to see terrorism as the answer.

In fact, terrorism heavily contributed to how they got here. A major reason the Labor party fell out of power is due to the second intifada. The Labor party would have stifled these West Bank encroachments. The second intifada shifted Israel to the right, and Likud doesn’t care.

The west bank encroachments were illegal according to international law. So basically you are supporting a violation of international law.


Imagine how different our world would be right now if the hard right in Israel hadn't assassinated Rabin.

I'm not supporting the West Bank encroachment, but terrorism isn't the answer. The Palestinians needed to find a way to get the Israel left back in power. Fighting just made Israel shift further to right.

Probably, the best solution was to peacefully protest to garner attention and just endure the encroachment and the crackdowns. Then hope a dove eventually comes to power in Israel and try to work with him. Easier said then done, I know, but it's a more realistic path to peace than 10/7.

What makes Israel's actions again Gaza any different than terrorism? They’ve killed more people. Dismembered many more. Killed way more kids. One can say they were defending themselves but that exact what Hamas explains 10/7.

I agree peaceful protest is a better way but I think both sides need to do that.

Israel is a country and the IDF is their official army. They are not a terrorist group, by definition.

They started out as a terrorist group (the Irgun). If Israel’s army only acted defensively , I would understand but the problem is prior to 10/7, the West Bank had majority of the deaths which pokes holes in Israel’s Hamas reasoning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure, the Palestinians are between a rock and a hard place. Lots of people denounce what’s going on in the West Bank. Unfortunately, few people are going to see terrorism as the answer.

In fact, terrorism heavily contributed to how they got here. A major reason the Labor party fell out of power is due to the second intifada. The Labor party would have stifled these West Bank encroachments. The second intifada shifted Israel to the right, and Likud doesn’t care.

The west bank encroachments were illegal according to international law. So basically you are supporting a violation of international law.


Imagine how different our world would be right now if the hard right in Israel hadn't assassinated Rabin.

I'm not supporting the West Bank encroachment, but terrorism isn't the answer. The Palestinians needed to find a way to get the Israel left back in power. Fighting just made Israel shift further to right.

Probably, the best solution was to peacefully protest to garner attention and just endure the encroachment and the crackdowns. Then hope a dove eventually comes to power in Israel and try to work with him. Easier said then done, I know, but it's a more realistic path to peace than 10/7.

What makes Israel's actions again Gaza any different than terrorism? They’ve killed more people. Dismembered many more. Killed way more kids. One can say they were defending themselves but that exact what Hamas explains 10/7.

I agree peaceful protest is a better way but I think both sides need to do that.

Israel is a country and the IDF is their official army. They are not a terrorist group, by definition.

Yes, it is true that Israel a country. In your view is it ok that countries can inflict terrorist pain and suffering on others? I don’t think that’s right. In fact, I would argue that history shows when a country inflicts harm on others they are usually harmed in return in retaliation.

What a strange and blinkered view of history you have. Skipping out on the parts that don't fit where you want them to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the WP:

“ Rafah’s threadbare health network is collapsing when people there need it most.
The city’s largest hospital was shuttered two days ago, in a panic, after Israel ordered 100,000 Palestinians in southeastern Gaza to evacuate. Small clinics that accommodated hundreds of people a week closed as well, with staff members forced to flee the violence.
Bodies lay where they fell, in the “red zone” that the few ambulances available could not reach because of Israeli bombardment.”

What is a terrorist? From the dictionary = person who uses violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

I cannot see any other word for what Israel is inflicting now in Gaza other than terrorism.

Words have meaning. The word you are looking for is war. Israel is inflicting war on Gaza.

Wars are between armies. There is a war in Ukraine. In Gaza there is a holocaust.

Is Palestine a state or isn't it? You seem to want to have it both ways - a state when it's convenient but not a state when it isn't convenient.

If Palestine isn't a state, then what Israel is having ais a civil war, which is the worst kind of war.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now, based on the most recent posts here, the pro-Israel argument is that the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank (none of whom have a vote or a say in Israeli elections) should have done whatever they could have done (which was nothing since, once again, they lack any control over Israeli elections) to bide their time until a less evil (albeit still evil) Israeli leadership emerged to offer them maybe 14 - 17% of the land that was ruthlessly, violently stolen from them. A state without true sovereignty, as Israel would still control their borders, deny them the right of a military to protect themselves, etc.

Yeah, it’s totally difficult to understand why terrorism is the tactic of choice with so many other realistic options out there for the Palestinians, and with the Israeli side operating in good faith every step of the way.

/s

Sure, it's understandable, but the terrorism helped discredit the Israeli left and put the right in charge. So instead of dealing with a sympathetic Labor party you're dealing with an uncaring Likud party. Actions do have consequences.

The Israeli left were worse to Palestinians. Rabin, Nobel Prize winner, infamously said to “break their bones ” about first intifada peaceful protestors .

Bibi is actually less extreme than some of the leftists in terms of rhetoric. I don’t think he even said break their bones about Hamas after 10/7.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the proposal Israel rejected.

There is no ceasefire unless Hamas is removed from all and any governmental functions, all Hamas members, supporters, and affiliates (including those in the UN) are tried and punished by a neutral third party led by the United State, and a clear plan to deradicalize Palestinians is put in place.

There can be no peace until there is no Hamas. That has always been the goal. There can be temporary agreements to return hostages, but there is no reasonable world where Israel surrenders unconditionally.

Hamas did not agree to free living hostages. It proposed to substitute corpses.

Look I understand they are terrorists, but it seems like corpses are important to people. It said in pp's chart that Hamas also wanted Palestinian corpses from Israel. There was a story about a Palestinian man who quickly buried his children near the hospital, and when he went back for them they weren't there. I think they know it's in their best interest to keep people alive, but with Israel's indiscriminate bombing, they may have killed hostages. They killed 3 hostages (waving white flags) because they thought they were Hamas.

Organ trafficking happens there too. The dead aren’t left alone either

Huh, Gaza has a robust under the table organ harvesting transplant program? Who knew?

I hope you are being sarcastic- it was Palestinians prisoners's bodies that were returned to their families with organs removed for years until there was enough hue and cry that Israel said that they will change their rules and not allow it anymore, previously their rules permitted organ harvesting from all people in any kind of detention, even those without any charges.

[Anonymous]

I am a huge supporter of Israel, but the video I just watched on the front page of The New York Times showing protesters waving Israeli flags blocking aid trucks to Gaza sickened me. Literally.
I feel torn to pieces now. I cannot support a nation whose citizens feel it's OK to starve tens of thousands of innocent Palestinian citizens because a crazy bunch of Palestinian terrorists slaughtered 1200 Israelis!! The Israelis don't want to give the Palestinians FOOD!!
Stop ALL arms shipments to Israel!!! NOW. NO MORE ARMS FOR ISRAEL UNTIL ISRAEL STOPS STARVING PALESTINIANS!!!
This is all I can take, and I love Israel and will support it forever, but I cannot support what its government and some of its citizens are doing to poor Palestinian civilians who had nothing to do with the massacre on Oct. 7. This is shameful. The US can have no part in this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a huge supporter of Israel, but the video I just watched on the front page of The New York Times showing protesters waving Israeli flags blocking aid trucks to Gaza sickened me. Literally.
I feel torn to pieces now. I cannot support a nation whose citizens feel it's OK to starve tens of thousands of innocent Palestinian citizens because a crazy bunch of Palestinian terrorists slaughtered 1200 Israelis!! The Israelis don't want to give the Palestinians FOOD!!
Stop ALL arms shipments to Israel!!! NOW. NO MORE ARMS FOR ISRAEL UNTIL ISRAEL STOPS STARVING PALESTINIANS!!!
This is all I can take, and I love Israel and will support it forever, but I cannot support what its government and some of its citizens are doing to poor Palestinian civilians who had nothing to do with the massacre on Oct. 7. This is shameful. The US can have no part in this.

I don't have a NYT subscription so I don't know if they are covering this - but did they not cover that Biden is threatening to withhold aid to Israel? Here it is on CNN:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/08/politics/joe-biden-interview-cnntv/index.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the WP:

“ Rafah’s threadbare health network is collapsing when people there need it most.
The city’s largest hospital was shuttered two days ago, in a panic, after Israel ordered 100,000 Palestinians in southeastern Gaza to evacuate. Small clinics that accommodated hundreds of people a week closed as well, with staff members forced to flee the violence.
Bodies lay where they fell, in the “red zone” that the few ambulances available could not reach because of Israeli bombardment.”

What is a terrorist? From the dictionary = person who uses violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

I cannot see any other word for what Israel is inflicting now in Gaza other than terrorism.

Words have meaning. The word you are looking for is war. Israel is inflicting war on Gaza.

Wars are between armies. There is a war in Ukraine. In Gaza there is a holocaust.

It's ironic, isn't it? We supported Israel because it gave a homeland to victims of the Nazis. Now Israel is using our protection and our arms to exterminate the Palestinians. It defies belief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the WP:

“ Rafah’s threadbare health network is collapsing when people there need it most.
The city’s largest hospital was shuttered two days ago, in a panic, after Israel ordered 100,000 Palestinians in southeastern Gaza to evacuate. Small clinics that accommodated hundreds of people a week closed as well, with staff members forced to flee the violence.
Bodies lay where they fell, in the “red zone” that the few ambulances available could not reach because of Israeli bombardment.”

What is a terrorist? From the dictionary = person who uses violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

I cannot see any other word for what Israel is inflicting now in Gaza other than terrorism.

Words have meaning. The word you are looking for is war. Israel is inflicting war on Gaza.

Wars are between armies. There is a war in Ukraine. In Gaza there is a holocaust.

This.