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Political Discussion
Gaza War, Part 3
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Anonymous
+1 Israel must play by its own rules. Give back their prisoners who are being detained without charge and often maltreated in detention in return for Hamas's prisoners. Neither side should be detaining people without trial, but Israel started the process and needs to initiate the resolution. |
Anonymous
I believe it’s unrealistic to expect a war to finish in six months. As Americans, we tend to want to fix the problem quickly but that’s unfair and not how war works. Our own wars took decades with no reasonable solution but the benefit is now our American public is completely war averse. Maybe that’s what the Israelis and Palestinians need. For the war to be so bad , no right wing Likud or Hamas will ever get elected or in power again. Hamas, thanks to Qatari billions, knows how to construct, develop a society and pick up the pieces quickly in post war operations. They’ve rebuilt Gaza time and time again. A post war Gaza ensures they will stay in power as nobody else wants that job and they know it. However, If the war continues, Hamas weaken and weaken and weakens and so does Bibi/Israel/right wing Likud. Win win. Things happen for a reason and wars can’t be sorted out in six months . There always is a silver lining in the end to war: maybe even Palestinian and Israelis can come together to protest their governments together. You never know what extensive war can do |
Anonymous
If that’s the case, why didn’t Israel listen to Egypts warning that Hamas was very active with transactions and transfers in the MJ tbs prior? Tens of thousands of people would still be alive from Israel and Gaza. They don’t need weapons from Jordan to wage war. They can use anything as a weapon -even a car . They have settlers right there . They can start a war whenever they want. Israel is so short sighted. They think technology is needed for war. It’s not. All that’s needed is hate |
Anonymous
Yes, but hate is no match for a F-35. Palestinians have been using terrorism for generations - from Black September to airplane hijackings to innumerable suicide bombings. And it's gotten them exactly nowhere. They could have had a state numerous times, but that would require vision, statesmanship, compromise, and a vision for the future. And Palestinians have exhibited none of those things. Instead, they chose Islamic fundamentalism, terrorism, and kleptocracy. Palestinians in Gaza thought their invasion of Israel and the atrocities they committed on 10/7 was a brilliant idea. The rest of the world, of course, looks upon Palestinian decision-making and thinks idiots. There's no helping such self destructive stupidity. Was the Netanyahu government profoundly incompetent? Absolutely. 10/7 was the worst security failure in the history of Israel. But ultimately Israelis will vote in a new government. There will be a thorough investigation of the incompetence of the Netanyahu government. And life will move on. Meanwhile, Gaza lies in ruins. And any hope for Palestinian independence is gone for generations. I don't know about you, but I'm thinking Palestinians might want to try something different than Hamas and endless terror. It doesn't seem to be working. |
Anonymous
This is ridiculous. The only thing Netanyahu wants from Hamas is Hamas to attack Fatah, and the only thing Netanyahu wants from Fatah is for Fatah to attack Hamas. The only thing Hamas wants is war, like Isis. The only people Fatah hates more than Israel are Palestinians, which is why Hamas isn't war with Fatah. Hamas kills Palestinians to keep itself in power. |
Anonymous
Disagree completely with that statement. The Israeli response has done more than just level Gaza. It has virtually guaranteed Palestinian independence sooner rather than later. |
Anonymous
DP. Where and how? Israel is about to present the world with a fait accompli, and there’s exactly a zero percent chance that the international community will do anything meaningful to reverse it. Add in the fact that Palestinians have no credible leadership, no consensus on the borders and contours of independence, and the chances for a Palestinian state in the near future are now nil. Which is tragic, for everyone involved. Eff Likud and eff Hamas. |
Anonymous
This is demonstrably false. Hamas calls 10/7 Al Aqsa Raid. They did this because Isrsel was killing Palestinians in the West Bank not because Israel was killing Palestinians in Gaza. Israel always picks on the weakest target which was Palestinians in the defenseless and armyless West Bank. Hamas doesn’t hate Fatah or Palestinians in the West Bank or Christians. They’re the same people. That was what Netanyahu thought would happen. A civil war among Palestinians but it never happened . Israel is the one that has the divisions. |
Anonymous
They did it because they were mad that other Arab countries were normalizing relations with Israel. They are not some Avengers-style band of super heroes there to defend the rights of the oppressed. For gd's sake. At least don't ask why we call you Hamas-lovers. |
Anonymous
lol yes Israel is not the oppressor. You live in a fantasy world. |
Anonymous
Prior to Israel's response the chances of a Palestinian state in the near term were already nil. Bibi's (and Sharon's) strategy had somewhat worked. Palestine was out of sight and out of mind to most of the world. Even countries like Sudan and the Gulf States had given up. The pre-2023 status quo had ossified. People weren't paying attention to the policies of Smotrich and Ben Gvir that had gained popularity in Israel but now they are. However, Israel's over the top response shocked the world. Countries like Colombia and Japan, core allies of the US, have changed policies. EU countries like Ireland and Spain have stepped out on their own while the social taboo against criticisizing Israel in the US has been broken. That's not even mentioning the Russia aligned countries like South Africa and Iran. That's the background. In the foreground, Gaza has been completely demolished and while the world can't/won't stop that they can/will refuse to pay to rebuild it. Gaza will not be self-governed again in the near term but unless Israel is going to take complete responsibilty, both financially and politically, it will need help and that help isn't coming without conditions. But Gaza isn't the prize or even the central issue. It's the West Bank that matters. The US has shockingly started imposing sanctions on the worst offenders. That was a heretofore unimaginble thought. Sanctions have been imposed on core allies of Israeli cabinet members and potentially indiidual IDF battalions. The only thing stopping immediate global recognition of Palestine right now has been the US Security Council veto and the political cost of that veto is no longer zero. That's the dirty little secret, there isn't really a dispute about borders, the lines are known and there is now a cost for Israel's attempt to erase those lines. Of course the Palestinians could screw up again and overrate their strategic position, but as of today the possibility of Palestinian statehood is the closest it's been to happening since Oslo. Israel shot itself in the foot over and over again. It may be firmly in power militarily but politically and morally its power is crumbling. As Ben Gvir so poetically has shown us. Running a red light without a seat belt is dangerous and self-harming. |
Anonymous
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-04/ty-article/.premium/report-hamas-accepts-gaza-cease-fire-deal-israeli-officials-deny-prospect-of-war-ending/0000018f-42eb-d414-a5bf-f3fff18a0000 Wow. Will be interested in the spin put out by the pro Israel crowd on this one. Maybe something about US being in league with Hamas, Biden is Hamas, etc? Maybe israel is holding out till the US guarantees all college students are arrested if they refuse draft notice from the IDF? |
Anonymous
Pin this one, Jeff. Most cogent, thoughtful post in nearly 3,000 pages. |
Anonymous
Killing is killing. You can kill a person with a cigarette lighter or a brick. You don’t need an F 35. Most wars are won on the ground not in the air anyway. What has Israel’s F35’s gotten them? They can’t even find Hamas tunnels in Gaza with trillions spent on planes and bombs. F-35’s only create more Hamas if anything |
Anonymous
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Israel has a recruitment problem already in their country so bad they had to get reservists from overseas and American troops to help as well. Nobody wants to serve including the religious and extreme settlers who believe oh so much in Zion.
Do we think Palestinians will have a soldier recruitment problem in the next decade? Alot of men and boys in the refugee camps in Gaza have nothing or nobody else to go back to. Their families and homes are gone. Zero sum games are dangerous and I think the morale and will to fight is stronger in the Palestinian side than the Israeli side . Israel hasn’t lost much comparatively speaking. After 10/7; they haven’t experienced war or anything traumatic on a daily basis to shift the minds of their kids or men to anger or hate |