Mandatory vaccines for teachers/staff and eligible students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What would be the points of negotiation if DCPS did mandate a vaccine for DC employees, including teachers? The time frame? I doubt medical exemptions would be a point of contention, and I doubt religious ones would be either.

Money, money, money, money. Money. That and demanding a mandate for students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would be the points of negotiation if DCPS did mandate a vaccine for DC employees, including teachers? The time frame? I doubt medical exemptions would be a point of contention, and I doubt religious ones would be either.

Money, money, money, money. Money. That and demanding a mandate for students.

And right on cue, Politico is on the case.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/28/vaccine-mandates-labor-biden-501123

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would be the points of negotiation if DCPS did mandate a vaccine for DC employees, including teachers? The time frame? I doubt medical exemptions would be a point of contention, and I doubt religious ones would be either.

Money, money, money, money. Money. That and demanding a mandate for students.

And right on cue, Politico is on the case.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/28/vaccine-mandates-labor-biden-501123

AFT certainly isn't expressing full-throated support for mandatory vaccinations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AFT clearly says they don’t think vaccination should be “coerced” so I’m not sure how you can interpret that in any other way than that they will oppose it in negotiations. I am not sure if WTU shares AFT’s position but I would be surprised if they didn’t.

If the parties don’t reach agreement this is called an “impass” and that gets into issues of DC public employee labor law I cannot speak to. But it would obviously be a crazy turn of events if WTU went on strike to oppose mandatory vaccination.

Your last sentence gets to the heart of the issue. It would clearly be untenable for a teachers' union to strike in opposition to a mandatory vaccine. That's why the ATF's position is clearly to negotiate the best modalities that can obtained. If any union opposed a mandate in negotiations, management would just call their bluff.

So your final position is “WTU will never actually strike over this”?

I have not seen any indication that the WTU even opposes a mandate, let alone is prepared to strike over it.

Practically speaking, the Federal government will issue a vaccine mandate on Thursday. The Washington Post issued one today. There will probably be wave of other business requiring their employees to be vaccinated. It would be suicidal for the WTU to strike (not to mention that I don't think they can legally strike). If you listen and/or read the WTU statements, the Union's concern is safe schools. As such, vaccinations are the single most important factor and union leaders have been very vocal in supporting vaccinations. But, that goes for eligible students as well as teachers and staff. The union doesn't want its members singled out while unvaccinated teenagers fill classrooms and under-12s go home to unvaccinated parents. The union probably prefers an incentives-based approach to vaccinations over a mandate, but there is no sign that a mandate is the hill it wants to die on.

In my opinion, the issue is not the WTU, but DCPS. Is DCPS prepared to require vaccinations for eligible students? Very soon this is all going to be moot because there won't be time for anyone who is not vaccinated to get vaccinated before school starts.

I think the difference is K12 students are mostly minors and "clients", versus adults and paid employees. The whole business of mandating a vaccine that has not yet been fully approved is 'murky' anyway. Colleges who mostly deal with over 18 in a residential environment are venturing there, but I doubt public K12s will until the vaccine is FDA approved. With that being said, teachers--like health workers, first responders, essential workers etc should be required to be vaccinated. No one complained when they were bumped to the front of the line for eligibility (and with good reason). Their jobs are part of functioning society.

+1

As a WTU member and a teacher I agree with this completely. All school based employees (because there are many who are in schools who are not WTU members) should be mandated to take the vaccine. I don't think it is ethical to bring negotiate that kids should be mandated to vaccine as well. There are other countries not recommending vaccination for kids without more data, how could US school systems require it while under EUA? Leave vaccinations for kids out of the negotiations.

[Anonymous]

Here's that list of councilmembers and their emails (plus Mendelson) if you'd like to write them to support mandatory vaccinations of DC teachers:

Phil Mendelson: [e-mail]
Anita Bonds (At Large): [e-mail]
Elissa Silverman (At Large): [e-mail]
Robert White (At Large): [e-mail]
Christina Henderson(At Large): [e-mail]
Brianne Nadeau (Ward 1): [e-mail]
Brooke Pinto (Ward 2): [e-mail]
Mary Cheh (Ward 3): [e-mail]
Janeese Lewis George (Ward 4): [e-mail]
Kenyan McDuffie (Ward 5): [e-mail]
Charles Allen (Ward 6): [e-mail]
Vincent Gray (Ward 7): [e-mail]
Trayon White (Ward 8): [e-mail]

[jsteele]

As the statement from the AFT that I posted earlier demonstrates, the organization supports negotiating a vaccine mandate. I have removed the post that wrongly stated that the AFT has "expressly come out against mandatory vaccination". I also removed the responses to that false post. I have repeatedly asked the poster whose post I removed to stop posting misinformation so it is unfortunate that this continues.

[Anonymous]

This vaccinated teacher knows zero unvaccinated colleagues. But at this point, barring health reasons, if you are an unvaccinated teacher I’d call it malpractice. You are essential for all intents and purposes. Your job is to educate students in person. If you are frightened of the vaccine, you are unable to meet the requirements of the job and perhaps should consider a virtual teaching position elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This vaccinated teacher knows zero unvaccinated colleagues. But at this point, barring health reasons, if you are an unvaccinated teacher I’d call it malpractice. You are essential for all intents and purposes. Your job is to educate students in person. If you are frightened of the vaccine, you are unable to meet the requirements of the job and perhaps should consider a virtual teaching position elsewhere.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AFT clearly says they don’t think vaccination should be “coerced” so I’m not sure how you can interpret that in any other way than that they will oppose it in negotiations. I am not sure if WTU shares AFT’s position but I would be surprised if they didn’t.

If the parties don’t reach agreement this is called an “impass” and that gets into issues of DC public employee labor law I cannot speak to. But it would obviously be a crazy turn of events if WTU went on strike to oppose mandatory vaccination.

Your last sentence gets to the heart of the issue. It would clearly be untenable for a teachers' union to strike in opposition to a mandatory vaccine. That's why the ATF's position is clearly to negotiate the best modalities that can obtained. If any union opposed a mandate in negotiations, management would just call their bluff.

So your final position is “WTU will never actually strike over this”?

I have not seen any indication that the WTU even opposes a mandate, let alone is prepared to strike over it.

Practically speaking, the Federal government will issue a vaccine mandate on Thursday. The Washington Post issued one today. There will probably be wave of other business requiring their employees to be vaccinated. It would be suicidal for the WTU to strike (not to mention that I don't think they can legally strike). If you listen and/or read the WTU statements, the Union's concern is safe schools. As such, vaccinations are the single most important factor and union leaders have been very vocal in supporting vaccinations. But, that goes for eligible students as well as teachers and staff. The union doesn't want its members singled out while unvaccinated teenagers fill classrooms and under-12s go home to unvaccinated parents. The union probably prefers an incentives-based approach to vaccinations over a mandate, but there is no sign that a mandate is the hill it wants to die on.

In my opinion, the issue is not the WTU, but DCPS. Is DCPS prepared to require vaccinations for eligible students? Very soon this is all going to be moot because there won't be time for anyone who is not vaccinated to get vaccinated before school starts.

I think the difference is K12 students are mostly minors and "clients", versus adults and paid employees. The whole business of mandating a vaccine that has not yet been fully approved is 'murky' anyway. Colleges who mostly deal with over 18 in a residential environment are venturing there, but I doubt public K12s will until the vaccine is FDA approved. With that being said, teachers--like health workers, first responders, essential workers etc should be required to be vaccinated. No one complained when they were bumped to the front of the line for eligibility (and with good reason). Their jobs are part of functioning society.

+1

As a WTU member and a teacher I agree with this completely. All school based employees (because there are many who are in schools who are not WTU members) should be mandated to take the vaccine. I don't think it is ethical to bring negotiate that kids should be mandated to vaccine as well. There are other countries not recommending vaccination for kids without more data, how could US school systems require it while under EUA? Leave vaccinations for kids out of the negotiations.

Yeah, it seems like weird whataboutism if teachers' unions are basing their negotiations on mandatory vaccinations on whether a population of minors ALSO has to be vaccinated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would be the points of negotiation if DCPS did mandate a vaccine for DC employees, including teachers? The time frame? I doubt medical exemptions would be a point of contention, and I doubt religious ones would be either.

Money, money, money, money. Money. That and demanding a mandate for students.

And right on cue, Politico is on the case.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/28/vaccine-mandates-labor-biden-501123

I just can’t express how upsetting this is. WHY would organized labor oppose the single most potent weapon we have against covid? They are protecting anti-vax members. That’s all I can conclude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would be the points of negotiation if DCPS did mandate a vaccine for DC employees, including teachers? The time frame? I doubt medical exemptions would be a point of contention, and I doubt religious ones would be either.

Money, money, money, money. Money. That and demanding a mandate for students.

And right on cue, Politico is on the case.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/28/vaccine-mandates-labor-biden-501123

I just can’t express how upsetting this is. WHY would organized labor oppose the single most potent weapon we have against covid? They are protecting anti-vax members. That’s all I can conclude.

I think they just want some compensation in return for it. Fot example, the Flight Attendants got three extra days of vacation in exchange for it.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AFT clearly says they don’t think vaccination should be “coerced” so I’m not sure how you can interpret that in any other way than that they will oppose it in negotiations. I am not sure if WTU shares AFT’s position but I would be surprised if they didn’t.

If the parties don’t reach agreement this is called an “impass” and that gets into issues of DC public employee labor law I cannot speak to. But it would obviously be a crazy turn of events if WTU went on strike to oppose mandatory vaccination.

Your last sentence gets to the heart of the issue. It would clearly be untenable for a teachers' union to strike in opposition to a mandatory vaccine. That's why the ATF's position is clearly to negotiate the best modalities that can obtained. If any union opposed a mandate in negotiations, management would just call their bluff.

So your final position is “WTU will never actually strike over this”?

I have not seen any indication that the WTU even opposes a mandate, let alone is prepared to strike over it.

Practically speaking, the Federal government will issue a vaccine mandate on Thursday. The Washington Post issued one today. There will probably be wave of other business requiring their employees to be vaccinated. It would be suicidal for the WTU to strike (not to mention that I don't think they can legally strike). If you listen and/or read the WTU statements, the Union's concern is safe schools. As such, vaccinations are the single most important factor and union leaders have been very vocal in supporting vaccinations. But, that goes for eligible students as well as teachers and staff. The union doesn't want its members singled out while unvaccinated teenagers fill classrooms and under-12s go home to unvaccinated parents. The union probably prefers an incentives-based approach to vaccinations over a mandate, but there is no sign that a mandate is the hill it wants to die on.

In my opinion, the issue is not the WTU, but DCPS. Is DCPS prepared to require vaccinations for eligible students? Very soon this is all going to be moot because there won't be time for anyone who is not vaccinated to get vaccinated before school starts.

So you’re placing all the blame on DCPS for not mandating the vaccine for children? What?

DCPS is the party responsible for any mandates. So far, I have not seen any indication that DCPS is interested in mandates for either students or teachers. The WTU has shown strong support for vaccines but has indicated that mandates should be negotiated. It has also stated that it is interested is solutions aimed not only at teachers, but also students. Therefore, the ball is clearly in the DCPS court. Do you believe differently?

I could answer, but you’d just delete my post again! Suffice it to say, the issue of children’s mandatory vaccination cannot be on the table for WTU unless WTU is willing to also agree to mandatory vaccination of its members. Yes, DCPS (or likely DC) should take the next step but you’re seriously misreading the tea leaves if you think WTU is in favor of mandatory vaccination and just being quiet about it. They are more than happy to talk about ventilation and distancing and masks, but totally silent here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would be the points of negotiation if DCPS did mandate a vaccine for DC employees, including teachers? The time frame? I doubt medical exemptions would be a point of contention, and I doubt religious ones would be either.

Money, money, money, money. Money. That and demanding a mandate for students.

And right on cue, Politico is on the case.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/28/vaccine-mandates-labor-biden-501123

I just can’t express how upsetting this is. WHY would organized labor oppose the single most potent weapon we have against covid? They are protecting anti-vax members. That’s all I can conclude.

I think they just want some compensation in return for it. Fot example, the Flight Attendants got three extra days of vacation in exchange for it.

Yeah, which is kind of gross and belies the notion that their goals are covid safety.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:As the statement from the AFT that I posted earlier demonstrates, the organization supports negotiating a vaccine mandate. I have removed the post that wrongly stated that the AFT has "expressly come out against mandatory vaccination". I also removed the responses to that false post. I have repeatedly asked the poster whose post I removed to stop posting misinformation so it is unfortunate that this continues.

On Politico it states that AFT "president said that vaccine protocols should be decided at individual workplaces". That could be construed as against a mandate? It sounds to be in flux.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:As the statement from the AFT that I posted earlier demonstrates, the organization supports negotiating a vaccine mandate. I have removed the post that wrongly stated that the AFT has "expressly come out against mandatory vaccination". I also removed the responses to that false post. I have repeatedly asked the poster whose post I removed to stop posting misinformation so it is unfortunate that this continues.

On Politico it states that AFT "president said that vaccine protocols should be decided at individual workplaces". That could be construed as against a mandate? It sounds to be in flux.

It means that AFT wants locals to be able to use vaccination as a bargaining chip to get other benefits, and that locals with a lot of anti-vaxxers can push for “protocols” that stop short of mandatory vaccination.