Will DC resume commuter traffic patterns in the fall?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well, we know what the city thinks about its small businesses, so I expect to see Connecticut narrowed down to one lane in each direction any day now with permanent bike lanes and with no street parking. In fact, DDOT will just drop the "Avenue" and rename it "Connecticut Way" or "Connecticut Lane."

Study after study has found that bike lanes are good for small businesses.

So you can stop worrying now.

Cite one objective study that supports your claim for the businesses along Connecticut Avenue. We're not talking about Seattle, San Francisco, Vancouver, Toronto, or some other city with different traffic patterns.

You want an "objective study" about the effect of bike lanes that have not yet been built yet?

Is there a reason why bike lanes would have a different effect in DC than in other cities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well, we know what the city thinks about its small businesses, so I expect to see Connecticut narrowed down to one lane in each direction any day now with permanent bike lanes and with no street parking. In fact, DDOT will just drop the "Avenue" and rename it "Connecticut Way" or "Connecticut Lane."

Study after study has found that bike lanes are good for small businesses.

So you can stop worrying now.

Cite one objective study that supports your claim for the businesses along Connecticut Avenue. We're not talking about Seattle, San Francisco, Vancouver, Toronto, or some other city with different traffic patterns.

You want an "objective study" about the effect of bike lanes that have not yet been built yet?

Is there a reason why bike lanes would have a different effect in DC than in other cities?

"Sure, it works in all these other cities, but it will never work here, for unspecified reasons that I will never elaborate on!"

Classic DCUM boomer logic on display.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well, we know what the city thinks about its small businesses, so I expect to see Connecticut narrowed down to one lane in each direction any day now with permanent bike lanes and with no street parking. In fact, DDOT will just drop the "Avenue" and rename it "Connecticut Way" or "Connecticut Lane."

Study after study has found that bike lanes are good for small businesses.

So you can stop worrying now.

This is all just fanciful. Replacing parking spaces with bike lanes is tantamount to dramatically reducing the total number of people in an area. Most people drive and if you make it too hard for them to drive, most of them will just go somewhere else. They'll be replaced by a small number of bicyclists. The net effect will be a small customer base for businesses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well, we know what the city thinks about its small businesses, so I expect to see Connecticut narrowed down to one lane in each direction any day now with permanent bike lanes and with no street parking. In fact, DDOT will just drop the "Avenue" and rename it "Connecticut Way" or "Connecticut Lane."

Study after study has found that bike lanes are good for small businesses.

So you can stop worrying now.

This is all just fanciful. Replacing parking spaces with bike lanes is tantamount to dramatically reducing the total number of people in an area. Most people drive and if you make it too hard for them to drive, most of them will just go somewhere else. They'll be replaced by a small number of bicyclists. The net effect will be a small customer base for businesses.

Well, yes, that's the general belief, but it turns out to be false.

Also, business owners tend to overestimate the percentage of their customers who arrive by car - and underestimate the percentage of their customers who arrive on foot, by bike, or via transit.

[Anonymous]

Wow, I was the OP and last I checked this thread, there was only one response. So I'm surprised that it mushroomed & interested to read the competing theories & arguments.

I need to go back and read all the responses, but the point of my post was that I hope the regular patterns are resumed. Obviously, that helps commuters like me, but it also helps downtown. If my commute is a daily nightmare, I'll work from home as much as possible. My organization is shifting to a hybrid model where all employees will have the choice about where they work. I'm not going to waste an hour in bumper-to-bumper traffic each way (especially for a drive that used to be 30 minutes most of the time.)

The pandemic has killed off most of the small restaurants and shops near my office - if office workers don't come back, neither will those small businesses and the jobs they create. I understand why NWDC residents may want Beach Drive just for bikes and may want to keep cars off Conn Ave, but it's not a net benefit for the city as a whole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well, we know what the city thinks about its small businesses, so I expect to see Connecticut narrowed down to one lane in each direction any day now with permanent bike lanes and with no street parking. In fact, DDOT will just drop the "Avenue" and rename it "Connecticut Way" or "Connecticut Lane."

Study after study has found that bike lanes are good for small businesses.

So you can stop worrying now.

This is all just fanciful. Replacing parking spaces with bike lanes is tantamount to dramatically reducing the total number of people in an area. Most people drive and if you make it too hard for them to drive, most of them will just go somewhere else. They'll be replaced by a small number of bicyclists. The net effect will be a small customer base for businesses.

Well, yes, that's the general belief, but it turns out to be false.

Also, business owners tend to overestimate the percentage of their customers who arrive by car - and underestimate the percentage of their customers who arrive on foot, by bike, or via transit.

ok, so you dont actually have a substantive response. got it. typical for dcum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well, we know what the city thinks about its small businesses, so I expect to see Connecticut narrowed down to one lane in each direction any day now with permanent bike lanes and with no street parking. In fact, DDOT will just drop the "Avenue" and rename it "Connecticut Way" or "Connecticut Lane."

Study after study has found that bike lanes are good for small businesses.

So you can stop worrying now.

Cite one objective study that supports your claim for the businesses along Connecticut Avenue. We're not talking about Seattle, San Francisco, Vancouver, Toronto, or some other city with different traffic patterns.

You want an "objective study" about the effect of bike lanes that have not yet been built yet?

Is there a reason why bike lanes would have a different effect in DC than in other cities?

"Sure, it works in all these other cities, but it will never work here, for unspecified reasons that I will never elaborate on!"

Classic DCUM boomer logic on display.

Those other cities are far larger with urban cores that are a lot less car-dependent. It's funny. DC is still very much a car-centric city despite what the small (but vocal) bike lobby says.

Produce a report that says how Connecticut Avenue businesses won't be negatively impacted by reduced car traffic. That's how to persuade people. You won't persuade people by simply talking in generalities or citing other studies that don't apply to DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, I was the OP and last I checked this thread, there was only one response. So I'm surprised that it mushroomed & interested to read the competing theories & arguments.

I need to go back and read all the responses, but the point of my post was that I hope the regular patterns are resumed. Obviously, that helps commuters like me, but it also helps downtown. If my commute is a daily nightmare, I'll work from home as much as possible. My organization is shifting to a hybrid model where all employees will have the choice about where they work. I'm not going to waste an hour in bumper-to-bumper traffic each way (especially for a drive that used to be 30 minutes most of the time.)

The pandemic has killed off most of the small restaurants and shops near my office - if office workers don't come back, neither will those small businesses and the jobs they create. I understand why NWDC residents may want Beach Drive just for bikes and may want to keep cars off Conn Ave, but it's not a net benefit for the city as a whole.

Actually, many if not most upper NW residents would strongly prefer that thru vehicle traffic stay on the major arterial roadways and not be diverted into secondary roads and residential side-streets. Unfortunately, that will be the result of a plan that shrinks Connecticut's rush hour carrying capacity by 50 percent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Those other cities are far larger with urban cores that are a lot less car-dependent. It's funny. DC is still very much a car-centric city despite what the small (but vocal) bike lobby says.

Produce a report that says how Connecticut Avenue businesses won't be negatively impacted by reduced car traffic. That's how to persuade people. You won't persuade people by simply talking in generalities or citing other studies that don't apply to DC.

It's not, really. Though your life in it may be car-dependent.

It is not possible to produce a report that proves that something in the future won't happen.

I don't need to persuade you. You're not the one making the decisions (and neither am I).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well, we know what the city thinks about its small businesses, so I expect to see Connecticut narrowed down to one lane in each direction any day now with permanent bike lanes and with no street parking. In fact, DDOT will just drop the "Avenue" and rename it "Connecticut Way" or "Connecticut Lane."

Study after study has found that bike lanes are good for small businesses.

So you can stop worrying now.

Cite one objective study that supports your claim for the businesses along Connecticut Avenue. We're not talking about Seattle, San Francisco, Vancouver, Toronto, or some other city with different traffic patterns.

You want an "objective study" about the effect of bike lanes that have not yet been built yet?

Is there a reason why bike lanes would have a different effect in DC than in other cities?

"Sure, it works in all these other cities, but it will never work here, for unspecified reasons that I will never elaborate on!"

Classic DCUM boomer logic on display.

Those other cities are far larger with urban cores that are a lot less car-dependent. It's funny. DC is still very much a car-centric city despite what the small (but vocal) bike lobby says.

Produce a report that says how Connecticut Avenue businesses won't be negatively impacted by reduced car traffic. That's how to persuade people. You won't persuade people by simply talking in generalities or citing other studies that don't apply to DC.

But studies don't work like that. When your doctor prescribes you statins, do you refuse to take them until he shows you a study that proved their effectiveness among balding left-handed pudgy men in their 50s who have moles above their left nipples? No, that would be absurd. You would accept the evidence that they are broadly effective and move on with your life. Bike lanes are broadly effective at making cycling safer and do not harm nearby small businesses. Study after study after study after study has shown this. Why do you refuse to believe the reams of evidence?

Besides, you're the one who is claiming that small businesses on Connecticut Avenue will be negatively impacted by a bike lane, so the burden of proof to the contrary is on you. Where are your empirical studies showing that bike lanes will harm businesses on Connecticut Avenue?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Actually, many if not most upper NW residents would strongly prefer that thru vehicle traffic stay on the major arterial roadways and not be diverted into secondary roads and residential side-streets. Unfortunately, that will be the result of a plan that shrinks Connecticut's rush hour carrying capacity by 50 percent.

No, it doesn't. It shrinks the number of general-travel lanes by 50%. But that's not the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well, we know what the city thinks about its small businesses, so I expect to see Connecticut narrowed down to one lane in each direction any day now with permanent bike lanes and with no street parking. In fact, DDOT will just drop the "Avenue" and rename it "Connecticut Way" or "Connecticut Lane."

Study after study has found that bike lanes are good for small businesses.

So you can stop worrying now.

Cite one objective study that supports your claim for the businesses along Connecticut Avenue. We're not talking about Seattle, San Francisco, Vancouver, Toronto, or some other city with different traffic patterns.

You want an "objective study" about the effect of bike lanes that have not yet been built yet?

Is there a reason why bike lanes would have a different effect in DC than in other cities?

"Sure, it works in all these other cities, but it will never work here, for unspecified reasons that I will never elaborate on!"

Classic DCUM boomer logic on display.

Those other cities are far larger with urban cores that are a lot less car-dependent. It's funny. DC is still very much a car-centric city despite what the small (but vocal) bike lobby says.

Produce a report that says how Connecticut Avenue businesses won't be negatively impacted by reduced car traffic. That's how to persuade people. You won't persuade people by simply talking in generalities or citing other studies that don't apply to DC.

But studies don't work like that. When your doctor prescribes you statins, do you refuse to take them until he shows you a study that proved their effectiveness among balding left-handed pudgy men in their 50s who have moles above their left nipples? No, that would be absurd. You would accept the evidence that they are broadly effective and move on with your life. Bike lanes are broadly effective at making cycling safer and do not harm nearby small businesses. Study after study after study after study has shown this. Why do you refuse to believe the reams of evidence?

Besides, you're the one who is claiming that small businesses on Connecticut Avenue will be negatively impacted by a bike lane, so the burden of proof to the contrary is on you. Where are your empirical studies showing that bike lanes will harm businesses on Connecticut Avenue?

Bike lanes reduce the number of people who can use roads, which reduces the circulation of people in a city. Not sure what's controversial about that observation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Bike lanes reduce the number of people who can use roads, which reduces the circulation of people in a city. Not sure what's controversial about that observation.

Bike lanes increase the number of people who can use roads.

I mean, just think about it. What occupies more space, 1 person on a bicycle, or 1 person in a car?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well, we know what the city thinks about its small businesses, so I expect to see Connecticut narrowed down to one lane in each direction any day now with permanent bike lanes and with no street parking. In fact, DDOT will just drop the "Avenue" and rename it "Connecticut Way" or "Connecticut Lane."

Study after study has found that bike lanes are good for small businesses.

So you can stop worrying now.

Cite one objective study that supports your claim for the businesses along Connecticut Avenue. We're not talking about Seattle, San Francisco, Vancouver, Toronto, or some other city with different traffic patterns.

You want an "objective study" about the effect of bike lanes that have not yet been built yet?

Is there a reason why bike lanes would have a different effect in DC than in other cities?

"Sure, it works in all these other cities, but it will never work here, for unspecified reasons that I will never elaborate on!"

Classic DCUM boomer logic on display.

Those other cities are far larger with urban cores that are a lot less car-dependent. It's funny. DC is still very much a car-centric city despite what the small (but vocal) bike lobby says.

Produce a report that says how Connecticut Avenue businesses won't be negatively impacted by reduced car traffic. That's how to persuade people. You won't persuade people by simply talking in generalities or citing other studies that don't apply to DC.

But studies don't work like that. When your doctor prescribes you statins, do you refuse to take them until he shows you a study that proved their effectiveness among balding left-handed pudgy men in their 50s who have moles above their left nipples? No, that would be absurd. You would accept the evidence that they are broadly effective and move on with your life. Bike lanes are broadly effective at making cycling safer and do not harm nearby small businesses. Study after study after study after study has shown this. Why do you refuse to believe the reams of evidence?

Besides, you're the one who is claiming that small businesses on Connecticut Avenue will be negatively impacted by a bike lane, so the burden of proof to the contrary is on you. Where are your empirical studies showing that bike lanes will harm businesses on Connecticut Avenue?

Bike lanes reduce the number of people who can use roads, which reduces the circulation of people in a city. Not sure what's controversial about that observation.

That's an observation, and an ill-informed one at that. I asked for empirical studies showing that bike lanes will harm businesses on Connecticut Avenue, the standard you (or a poster like you) demanded earlier. But, I'll settle for empirical studies anywhere showing that bike lanes harm businesses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Connecticut Avenue is not going to revert back. The reversible lanes are permanently gone. The only question at this point is if there will be bike lanes or not.

The only decision made was not to resume them on June 1.

Seems like this whole thread is presuming a lot. Any actual change to Connecticut, if/when a final decision is made on the proposed bike lanes, will take many years to implement in any case.

Why?

I wish the Connecticut Ave bike lanes would go all the way north to the Purple Line station.

That will be up to Montgomery County and Maryland. But I agree!